How to evaluate a RB diamond with eyes alone?

[Dreamer_D]

Ok, I have read the diamond tutorial on GOG, I have looked up the numbers, I know the math on the angles. I''ve done my research like a good PSer

! What I really don''t know is what does an ideal cut stone really LOOK like? What are some tell-tale visual signs? Should arrows be really obvious? If I take it in the dark will it look like a little light bulb (Like Ellen''s current avatar!

)? Will I see fire even in the jewelry store? What little "tests" should I do with the stone to see if it is a great cut, and when I do the tests, what should I see? (e.g., someone once said to take it into different lighting... so what should it look like in different lighting?)

Thanks for your help!! I like to be as informed as I can possibly be when making a big purchase like a diamond, so I''d like to be armed with as much knowledge as possible when I meet with my jeweler to look at rocks. If I know my stuff, then I can better assess whether he is being straight up with me. Don''t worry, I don''t really have any reason to doubt him yet. He is a salesman, but he has "passed" all my tests so far and has been straight up with me. But I am typically very wary of being "snowed" when I am dealing with sales people, so your help in making me an "expert" is much appreciated!

And yes, my family makes fun of me for this... but because of my suspicious (curious?) nature I am now an expert in pure bred dogs, wedding planning, and hopefully soon diamonds as well!

DD
aka: Captain Suspicious!

 

[neatfreak]

Personally, I''d invest 25 dollars in an idealscope. Not a perfect solution, but it WILL allow you into the "inner workings" of diamonds that are set or unset and allow you to easily tell if it has weird stuff going on.

 

[dmus]

I can''t help with your question but am very interested in hearing the tips also because it''s hard to see the difference in a table of 55% and 60% so after the stats what are guides for visual observations. Thanks for the question.

 

[erica k]

I think an ideal scope might help, but I don''t own one, so I can''t say either way.

Whenever I go to Tiffany''s to look at their stones, I try to look for well-formed arrows. It helps for me to bring my ideal cut solitaire for reference. Also, since the lighting is so crazy in these stores, I usually cup my hand around the stone to make it a little darker and then look at the faceting. I also move the stone around as much as possible, trying to see if there are any dark ''dead'' zones like my other e-ring. I am at a total loss regarding color, since I''ve yet to compare a G with an I in non-store lighting.

The funny thing is, just because it isn''t an ''ideal'' cut doesn''t mean it isn''t a great stone. For me, symmetry is more important than perfect arrows. Also, sometimes when I look at estate rings on Lang''s website, I find myself attracted to non-ideal RBs with interesting faceting patterns. Who knows how they perform in real life, but I find myself intrigued by different types of patterns.

In general, you should stick with your instincts when you looks at RBs in shops. You should definitely have an idea about good spreads for carat weight, along with angles/percentages, but in the end, if you love the stone and know exactly what you''re getting for your money, go for it! Plus, it doesn''t hurt to run by the numbers/pictures on PS before purchasing. Don''t be a slave to numbers, but don''t be ''snowed'' by your SA, either! Honestly, I think the most important thing is for you to look at lots of different stones so that you understand the infinite variations present even in ''ideal'' or great cuts.

 

[strmrdr]

#1 thing is block the lights!
If it will sparkle just from the light reflected from the floor in a tile floored store its atleast VG or better.
Wear med too dark clothes otherwise it will catch the light from the clothes too.

One thing I like to do is wear my blue coat and block the lights and see how much of the diamond turns blue just from the reflection from my coat.
That test kills badly cut diamonds they will look grey instead of blue.
Then I take my coat off with a black shirt on for the first test mentioned.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 2/19/2008 7:54:18 PM
Author: neatfreak
Personally, I''d invest 25 dollars in an idealscope. Not a perfect solution, but it WILL allow you into the ''inner workings'' of diamonds that are set or unset and allow you to easily tell if it has weird stuff going on.

This is an interesting idea that I had not thought of. Have you, or anyone else, used one of these portable ones? If so, did you like it? Where did you buy it? I won''t ask you to tell me what to look for through the scope since I know that I can probably find that info on PS, but if anyone happens to have the link handy I would much appreciate it!

I just had a chuckle thinking what the SAs at most B&Ms would think if I whipped out an ideal scope!! hahahaaaaaa

DD

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 2/19/2008 9:08:11 PM
Author: erica k
I think an ideal scope might help, but I don''t own one, so I can''t say either way.

Whenever I go to Tiffany''s to look at their stones, I try to look for well-formed arrows. It helps for me to bring my ideal cut solitaire for reference. Also, since the lighting is so crazy in these stores, I usually cup my hand around the stone to make it a little darker and then look at the faceting. I also move the stone around as much as possible, trying to see if there are any dark ''dead'' zones like my other e-ring. I am at a total loss regarding color, since I''ve yet to compare a G with an I in non-store lighting.

The funny thing is, just because it isn''t an ''ideal'' cut doesn''t mean it isn''t a great stone. For me, symmetry is more important than perfect arrows. Also, sometimes when I look at estate rings on Lang''s website, I find myself attracted to non-ideal RBs with interesting faceting patterns. Who knows how they perform in real life, but I find myself intrigued by different types of patterns.

In general, you should stick with your instincts when you looks at RBs in shops. You should definitely have an idea about good spreads for carat weight, along with angles/percentages, but in the end, if you love the stone and know exactly what you''re getting for your money, go for it! Plus, it doesn''t hurt to run by the numbers/pictures on PS before purchasing. Don''t be a slave to numbers, but don''t be ''snowed'' by your SA, either! Honestly, I think the most important thing is for you to look at lots of different stones so that you understand the infinite variations present even in ''ideal'' or great cuts.

These are great tips. I don''t really care about color, so no worries for me there (if it looks pretty to my eye I am ok, and this seems the most subjective of all the gradings anyway). The last tip is great, I have not done that yet but I am going to make that my goal to go into lots of high end places and ask to see their stones. In particular, I want to see GIA and AGS stones so that I know what the cream of the crop looks like so I can compare it to what I see at my jewelers.

Thanks!

DD

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 2/19/2008 9:47:59 PM
Author: strmrdr
#1 thing is block the lights!
If it will sparkle just from the light reflected from the floor in a tile floored store its atleast VG or better.
Wear med too dark clothes otherwise it will catch the light from the clothes too.

One thing I like to do is wear my blue coat and block the lights and see how much of the diamond turns blue just from the reflection from my coat.
That test kills badly cut diamonds they will look grey instead of blue.
Then I take my coat off with a black shirt on for the first test mentioned.

Storm you are so creative! Let me just list here what I think you are saying (when I interpret your "storm speak"

):

1. Turn out the lights or go into a dark room and then see if it still sparkles just from the little bit of light left in the room. Wear black or dark colors for this test. If it sparkles under those limited lighting conditions, it is at least a VG cut.

Q about 1: can I just cup my hand around the diamond to block the light or are you suggesting I actually take the diamond into a dark room or ask them to turn the lights off?

"Ok everyone, I am turning out the lights now! No one move!" I''ll do it if that''s what you say Storm!

2. Cup my hand around the diamond holding it near a blue shirt and then see if the stone reflects the blue of my shirt. If it DOES then this is a good thing. If the stone looks grey it is bad.

Q about 2: same question about "blocking the light." Also, this is a complex one, it may be beyond me, but at the risk of looking silly I will try it when I go to look at diamonds next time! If they ask me what I am doing I wil say that Storm told me to do it.

DD

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 2/19/2008 10:40:06 PM
Author: dreamer_dachsie

Date: 2/19/2008 7:54:18 PM
Author: neatfreak
Personally, I''d invest 25 dollars in an idealscope. Not a perfect solution, but it WILL allow you into the ''inner workings'' of diamonds that are set or unset and allow you to easily tell if it has weird stuff going on.

This is an interesting idea that I had not thought of. Have you, or anyone else, used one of these portable ones? If so, did you like it? Where did you buy it? I won''t ask you to tell me what to look for through the scope since I know that I can probably find that info on PS, but if anyone happens to have the link handy I would much appreciate it!

I just had a chuckle thinking what the SAs at most B&Ms would think if I whipped out an ideal scope!! hahahaaaaaa

DD

I have the old pro model, and a handheld aset both work well.
The new version of both do too as well as the entry level IS.

 

[Rhino]

Date: 2/19/2008 7:43:03 PM
Author:dreamer_dachsie
Ok, I have read the diamond tutorial on GOG, I have looked up the numbers, I know the math on the angles. I''ve done my research like a good PSer

! What I really don''t know is what does an ideal cut stone really LOOK like? What are some tell-tale visual signs? Should arrows be really obvious? If I take it in the dark will it look like a little light bulb (Like Ellen''s current avatar!

)? Will I see fire even in the jewelry store? What little ''tests'' should I do with the stone to see if it is a great cut, and when I do the tests, what should I see? (e.g., someone once said to take it into different lighting... so what should it look like in different lighting?)

Thanks for your help!! I like to be as informed as I can possibly be when making a big purchase like a diamond, so I''d like to be armed with as much knowledge as possible when I meet with my jeweler to look at rocks. If I know my stuff, then I can better assess whether he is being straight up with me. Don''t worry, I don''t really have any reason to doubt him yet. He is a salesman, but he has ''passed'' all my tests so far and has been straight up with me. But I am typically very wary of being ''snowed'' when I am dealing with sales people, so your help in making me an ''expert'' is much appreciated!

And yes, my family makes fun of me for this... but because of my suspicious (curious?) nature I am now an expert in pure bred dogs, wedding planning, and hopefully soon diamonds as well!

DD
aka: Captain Suspicious!

Hi Dreamer,

Not an easy question to answer as there are varying appearances within diamonds that acheive top cut grades within each of the two most conservative labs systems (GIA & AGS) as both have differing criteria for what constitutes each labs top cut grade. What I like to do is begin at the zenith of both and make my comparisons/observations as each diamonds sets of criteria tends to veer towards the liberal side of each grade and note where I can begin to see visual differences and also where I feel the optics tend to begin degrading.

What is tough is if you don''t have such diamonds readily available to you it''s tough to make objective comparisons becuase then your comparisons are limited to the store you are looking at and the amount of information they can share with you on the diamonds you''re observing. For example, how can you tell if you prefer one diamond if everything is the same except one has lower girdles of 75% while another may have 83%? There are lots of variables to consider. What I personally like to do is begin at the zenith and work my way out to see how I prefer or don''t prefer the various appearances. Unfortunately while IS tells part of the story it''s not an end-all but better to have one than not to.

Hope that helps.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 2/19/2008 11:02:54 PM
Author: dreamer_dachsie

Date: 2/19/2008 9:47:59 PM
Author: strmrdr
#1 thing is block the lights!
If it will sparkle just from the light reflected from the floor in a tile floored store its atleast VG or better.
Wear med too dark clothes otherwise it will catch the light from the clothes too.

One thing I like to do is wear my blue coat and block the lights and see how much of the diamond turns blue just from the reflection from my coat.
That test kills badly cut diamonds they will look grey instead of blue.
Then I take my coat off with a black shirt on for the first test mentioned.

Storm you are so creative! Let me just list here what I think you are saying (when I interpret your ''storm speak''

):

1. Turn out the lights or go into a dark room and then see if it still sparkles just from the little bit of light left in the room. Wear black or dark colors for this test. If it sparkles under those limited lighting conditions, it is at least a VG cut.

just block the light with your hand so the only light is reflected up from the floor.

Q about 1: can I just cup my hand around the diamond to block the light or are you suggesting I actually take the diamond into a dark room or ask them to turn the lights off?

''Ok everyone, I am turning out the lights now! No one move!'' I''ll do it if that''s what you say Storm!

just block the light with your hand so the only light is reflected up from the floor.


2. Cup my hand around the diamond holding it near a blue shirt and then see if the stone reflects the blue of my shirt. If it DOES then this is a good thing. If the stone looks grey it is bad.

Q about 2: same question about ''blocking the light.'' Also, this is a complex one, it may be beyond me, but at the risk of looking silly I will try it when I go to look at diamonds next time! If they ask me what I am doing I wil say that Storm told me to do it.

Just cup your hand around it and hold it close too your body at a slight upward angle and look down.

DD

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 2/19/2008 11:13:17 PM
Author: Rhino
Hi Dreamer,

Not an easy question to answer as there are varying appearances within diamonds that acheive top cut grades within each of the two most conservative labs systems (GIA & AGS) as both have differing criteria for what constitutes each labs top cut grade. What I like to do is begin at the zenith of both and make my comparisons/observations as each diamonds sets of criteria tends to veer towards the liberal side of each grade and note where I can begin to see visual differences and also where I feel the optics tend to begin degrading.

What is tough is if you don''t have such diamonds readily available to you it''s tough to make objective comparisons becuase then your comparisons are limited to the store you are looking at and the amount of information they can share with you on the diamonds you''re observing. For example, how can you tell if you prefer one diamond if everything is the same except one has lower girdles of 75% while another may have 83%? There are lots of variables to consider. What I personally like to do is begin at the zenith and work my way out to see how I prefer or don''t prefer the various appearances. Unfortunately while IS tells part of the story it''s not an end-all but better to have one than not to.

Hope that helps.

Thanks Rhino! I had to puzzle a little to follow everything, but what I get from it is that I would really benefit from seeing a bunch of different grades all organized in a pyramid with AGS and GIA at the zenith and then subsequent cut grades arching away from the zenith (I read your diamond tutorial so I think I get what you mean about how the grading categories for AGS and GIA deviate as the grades move away from ideal/excellent, because one relies on machines and the other on human eye perception). Then I need to look at all the stones to really see where my perception starts to see "bad things" (is that my subjective comfort level with cut?), and to learn to distinguish where one grading level shifts to another. Then I need to pick the stone that is at my personal "Sweet spot" (just above where I start to see quality get weaker: this would save me more money than just going for the BEST, right?) and then carry that stone around in my pocket to compare to all the stones I am thinking of buying!

Sooooo, can I come over and see an array of stones, and then can you lend me one?

I will bring it back I promise. You can keep my husband as collateral. He is really good at doing the dishes.

DD

PS: I would like to just buy a stone from someone I trust completely, like you, Rhino, based on the word around PS, but pre-PS I invested a pretty big chunk of change with a diamond dealer where I live, so I am going to see if he can satisfy my PS fueled diamond cut requirements before I just label that money as "lost". It isn''t lost, I have lovely EC sidestones, but they just don''t give me the sparkle I need!

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 2/19/2008 11:19:47 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 2/19/2008 11:02:54 PM
Author: dreamer_dachsie

Date: 2/19/2008 9:47:59 PM
Author: strmrdr
#1 thing is block the lights!
If it will sparkle just from the light reflected from the floor in a tile floored store its atleast VG or better.
Wear med too dark clothes otherwise it will catch the light from the clothes too.

One thing I like to do is wear my blue coat and block the lights and see how much of the diamond turns blue just from the reflection from my coat.
That test kills badly cut diamonds they will look grey instead of blue.
Then I take my coat off with a black shirt on for the first test mentioned.

Storm you are so creative! Let me just list here what I think you are saying (when I interpret your ''storm speak''

):

1. Turn out the lights or go into a dark room and then see if it still sparkles just from the little bit of light left in the room. Wear black or dark colors for this test. If it sparkles under those limited lighting conditions, it is at least a VG cut.

just block the light with your hand so the only light is reflected up from the floor.

Q about 1: can I just cup my hand around the diamond to block the light or are you suggesting I actually take the diamond into a dark room or ask them to turn the lights off?

''Ok everyone, I am turning out the lights now! No one move!'' I''ll do it if that''s what you say Storm!

just block the light with your hand so the only light is reflected up from the floor.


2. Cup my hand around the diamond holding it near a blue shirt and then see if the stone reflects the blue of my shirt. If it DOES then this is a good thing. If the stone looks grey it is bad.

Q about 2: same question about ''blocking the light.'' Also, this is a complex one, it may be beyond me, but at the risk of looking silly I will try it when I go to look at diamonds next time! If they ask me what I am doing I wil say that Storm told me to do it.

Just cup your hand around it and hold it close too your body at a slight upward angle and look down.

DD

Got it! That is much simpler that shutting the lights out in the jewelers. He might not like that, I imagine it could increase the possibility of theft

.

Just did the test with my ECs and they seem to have passed! I think light reflected from the cieling may work well for test 1, since there is carpet in this room. Also say some bright blue from my PJs in test 2. Probably would be more noticable in an RB.

DD

 

[lisa1.01fvs1]

I think what you want to know here is mainly a visceral, personal experience with the stone itself. That is the "magic" of the diamond at work. How does it look to you? How do you like the color, fire, sparkle, size, face-up appearance, etc.......Also, what kind of setting would work best?

Despite what we can tell by the "stats" there is that glorious, one-on-one with the diamond itself.

Beauty is in the eye of the..........

There was a thread I read recently where another PSer summed this sentiment up very eloquently (just can''t remember who wrote it - anyone?).

I hope you fall in love with your stone, then you''ll know.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 2/20/2008 1:10:20 AM
Author: lisa1.01fvs1
I think what you want to know here is mainly a visceral, personal experience with the stone itself. That is the ''magic'' of the diamond at work. How does it look to you? How do you like the color, fire, sparkle, size, face-up appearance, etc.......Also, what kind of setting would work best?

Despite what we can tell by the ''stats'' there is that glorious, one-on-one with the diamond itself.

Beauty is in the eye of the..........

There was a thread I read recently where another PSer summed this sentiment up very eloquently (just can''t remember who wrote it - anyone?).

I hope you fall in love with your stone, then you''ll know.

Thanks Lisa, I needed that reminder!

DD