How to do a proper analysis when buying from a B&M store?

[leapinghorse]

Hello again everyone. I am very close to buying an e-ring, but made a promise to my girlfriend I would give a local retailer a chance to earn my business. Her dad is good friends with the owner (who is ill now, so his son has taken over) and her family has been going to him for years. Her sister''s ring is from him and is gorgeous. I know we will be going to him for the setting, but I said for the diamond I would hear him out but make no promises.

I went and spoke with him yesterday, and was very impressed with his pricing. His prices were inclusive of all taxes and included the setting, mounting etc. He deals on a "cash only" basis and does a lot of work for bigger jewelry chains......I have full faith in him being trustworthy.

He doesn''t have many inhouse diamonds, in fact very few, but is more than happy to bring in some stones for me to look at. Here are a few issues I would like some input on.

1) Most of the diamonds are certified by GemScan. I asked for AGS or GIA stones, but he said that they are harder for him to get or come at a premium. He should be able to find a GIA stone, but tried to assure me that GemScan certificates are accurate. Now I know that the norm on this forum is to push for only GIA or AGS, but I would love to hear about GemScan reliability from someone who has experience with them.

2) It is safe to say this guy is "old school". He doesn''t even own a computer! That said, he does not have an idealscope or any fancy tools other than a whole whack of magnification tools. This doesn''t concern me all that much as he has a ton of experience but I do want to be able to do a proper analysis on the stones he brings in. I plan on ordering an idealscope. Should this one do the trick? Anyone have experience with it? I also will ask for all the numbers so i can punch it in the HCA. That is one concern about a GemScan cert.....I didn''t see all the numbers on it.

One thing I was happy to see is that his cutters are now sending him gemex reports on the stones. He didn''t even know what it was but I recognized it from seeing the tool on the GOG site a few others. It came on a plastic card about the shape of a business card. What else can I do when looking at the stone or analyzing it?

He left me with a really good feeling. I told him I would come back in a couple of weeks and we would get some stones brought in to look at. I can''t remember all the stones he mentioned....he read a couple from a list. I do remember a 1.38, G, SI2, Ideal cut stone for $8500 CDN (including tax and the setting). Those specs seem to come in around 7000 online, but I would have to pay tax as it is coming across the border and obviously the exchange rate. On a 7000 stone, it would total about 8500 but that would be without the setting so I am willing to hear this guy out. To be honest I never thought he would even come close but apparently I was wrong.

Anyways, I''m hoping for some input from everyone! Thanks again

 

[neatfreak]

Well...HONESTLY? There have been many many people on here who have a jeweler as a "family friend" who have really gotten screwed. I would recommend that you buy other things from him in the future, but not this. I get really nervous as soon as someone brings out the words "family friend" and "jeweler" in the same sentence.

If you feel you MUST buy from him, I would push for the GIA or AGS report. Any jeweler should be able to get them, and yes, they will carry a small premium, but it would be worth it to me. Sounds like he just doesn''t want to go through the bother for you, NOT good customer service to me!

You can also buy an Idealscope from http://www.ideal-scope.com/ so you can analyze the light performance on your own. I would certainly spend the $100 for one if it were me.

I think the best you can do is stick with VS2 when he brings in stones (to avoid the clarity issue as much as possible), and stick with round ideals, i.e., learn as MUCH as you can about cut, and give him those exact standards and force him to show you only stones that meet those parameters.

If he can''t/isn''t willing to do this, I would certainly walk. Already sounds a bit sketchy to me...

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 6/6/2007 9:39:17 AM
Author:leapinghorse

Hello again everyone. I am very close to buying an e-ring, but made a promise to my girlfriend I would give a local retailer a chance to earn my business. Her dad is good friends with the owner (who is ill now, so his son has taken over) and her family has been going to him for years. Her sister's ring is from him and is gorgeous. I know we will be going to him for the setting, but I said for the diamond I would hear him out but make no promises.

I went and spoke with him yesterday, and was very impressed with his pricing. His prices were inclusive of all taxes and included the setting, mounting etc. He deals on a 'cash only' basis and does a lot of work for bigger jewelry chains......I have full faith in him being trustworthy.

He doesn't have many inhouse diamonds, in fact very few, but is more than happy to bring in some stones for me to look at. Here are a few issues I would like some input on.

1) Most of the diamonds are certified by GemScan. I asked for AGS or GIA stones, but he said that they are harder for him to get or come at a premium. He should be able to find a GIA stone, but tried to assure me that GemScan certificates are accurate. Now I know that the norm on this forum is to push for only GIA or AGS, but I would love to hear about GemScan reliability from someone who has experience with them.

2) It is safe to say this guy is 'old school'. He doesn't even own a computer! That said, he does not have an idealscope or any fancy tools other than a whole whack of magnification tools. This doesn't concern me all that much as he has a ton of experience but I do want to be able to do a proper analysis on the stones he brings in. I plan on ordering an idealscope. Should this one do the trick? Anyone have experience with it? I also will ask for all the numbers so i can punch it in the HCA. That is one concern about a GemScan cert.....I didn't see all the numbers on it.

One thing I was happy to see is that his cutters are now sending him gemex reports on the stones. He didn't even know what it was but I recognized it from seeing the tool on the GOG site a few others. It came on a plastic card about the shape of a business card. What else can I do when looking at the stone or analyzing it?

He left me with a really good feeling. I told him I would come back in a couple of weeks and we would get some stones brought in to look at. I can't remember all the stones he mentioned....he read a couple from a list. I do remember a 1.38, G, SI2, Ideal cut stone for $8500 CDN (including tax and the setting). Those specs seem to come in around 7000 online, but I would have to pay tax as it is coming across the border and obviously the exchange rate. On a 7000 stone, it would total about 8500 but that would be without the setting so I am willing to hear this guy out. To be honest I never thought he would even come close but apparently I was wrong.

Anyways, I'm hoping for some input from everyone! Thanks again

In which case, learn as much as you can about cut, get yourself an Idealscope and see what he has to offer. If your good feeling doesn't last then you can go elsewhere or buy online, however buying online isn't for everyone. It also seems that GemScan is often used in Canada.

 

[canuk-gal]

Date: 6/6/2007 9:39:17 AM
Author:leapinghorse

Hello again everyone. I am very close to buying an e-ring, but made a promise to my girlfriend I would give a local retailer a chance to earn my business. Her dad is good friends with the owner (who is ill now, so his son has taken over) and her family has been going to him for years. Her sister''s ring is from him and is gorgeous. I know we will be going to him for the setting, but I said for the diamond I would hear him out but make no promises.

I went and spoke with him yesterday, and was very impressed with his pricing. His prices were inclusive of all taxes and included the setting, mounting etc. He deals on a ''cash only'' basis and does a lot of work for bigger jewelry chains......I have full faith in him being trustworthy.

He doesn''t have many inhouse diamonds, in fact very few, but is more than happy to bring in some stones for me to look at. Here are a few issues I would like some input on.

1) Most of the diamonds are certified by GemScan. I asked for AGS or GIA stones, but he said that they are harder for him to get or come at a premium. He should be able to find a GIA stone, but tried to assure me that GemScan certificates are accurate. Now I know that the norm on this forum is to push for only GIA or AGS, but I would love to hear about GemScan reliability from someone who has experience with them.

2) It is safe to say this guy is ''old school''. He doesn''t even own a computer! That said, he does not have an idealscope or any fancy tools other than a whole whack of magnification tools. This doesn''t concern me all that much as he has a ton of experience but I do want to be able to do a proper analysis on the stones he brings in. I plan on ordering an idealscope. Should this one do the trick? Anyone have experience with it? I also will ask for all the numbers so i can punch it in the HCA. That is one concern about a GemScan cert.....I didn''t see all the numbers on it.

One thing I was happy to see is that his cutters are now sending him gemex reports on the stones. He didn''t even know what it was but I recognized it from seeing the tool on the GOG site a few others. It came on a plastic card about the shape of a business card. What else can I do when looking at the stone or analyzing it?

He left me with a really good feeling. I told him I would come back in a couple of weeks and we would get some stones brought in to look at. I can''t remember all the stones he mentioned....he read a couple from a list. I do remember a 1.38, G, SI2, Ideal cut stone for $8500 CDN (including tax and the setting). Those specs seem to come in around 7000 online, but I would have to pay tax as it is coming across the border and obviously the exchange rate. On a 7000 stone, it would total about 8500 but that would be without the setting so I am willing to hear this guy out. To be honest I never thought he would even come close but apparently I was wrong.

Anyways, I''m hoping for some input from everyone! Thanks again

HI:

Altho I am Canadian, I am not very familiar with GemScan reports. Do they include a proportion analysis? (dimensions, angles, etc...). Also I''m sure you are aware that the Canadain excise tax has long been abolished, but it bears restating that the only "tax" you would be paying bringing a stone across the border would be the GST (and you''d pay that locally anyway....). And the Canadian dollar is gaining strength daily, which is a bonus should you have had your eye on something, online.

I am glad you feel comfortable with your vendor; regardless of that relationship, I would have any stone under serious contemplation appraised by an independant source.

cheers--Sharon

 

[leapinghorse]

The vendor stated there were two appraisers he uses that he would send the stone to. If I insist on sending it to an appraiser of my choice (I would pay the fee), how does that typically work? Do I pay for the diamond and assuming the specs check out, it is then mine?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Waaay too many red flags here already!!!! I''d say forget it if he can''t get GIA and AGS stones, number 1. The prices seem "good" because you''ll get what you pay for. Family friends virtually never end up being a great deal. We''ve seen this over and over. And the "cash only"? That means no possibility of trading it in later if you wanted to get her a better stone.

 

[leapinghorse]

Being in Canada, most vendors here do not have easy access to GIA or AGS stones. It is certainly not unique to him. My main concern is making sure the certification is accurate therefore I want to be able to do my own analysis and have it independently appraised.

I understand why some people might see "red flags", but I can assure you that the ring I have seen that he designed for my gfs sister is gorgeous. I''m not saying I am going to use him for sure, but I will give him a shot at least. If he agrees to my terms and gets me a great stone at a great price, I''m happy.

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 6/6/2007 5:58:23 PM
Author: leapinghorse
Being in Canada, most vendors here do not have easy access to GIA or AGS stones. It is certainly not unique to him. My main concern is making sure the certification is accurate therefore I want to be able to do my own analysis and have it independently appraised.


I understand why some people might see 'red flags', but I can assure you that the ring I have seen that he designed for my gfs sister is gorgeous. I'm not saying I am going to use him for sure, but I will give him a shot at least. If he agrees to my terms and gets me a great stone at a great price, I'm happy.

Well then good luck, and DON'T take it to an appraiser the jeweler suggests. The word INDEPENDENT implies that they don't have an affiliation with your jeweler. Just take it, don't show them the cert until after they tell you what they think, and see what they say. Make SURE you can get it appraised BEFORE you hand over your cash.

 

[canuk-gal]

Date: 6/6/2007 5:58:23 PM
Author: leapinghorse
Being in Canada, most vendors here do not have easy access to GIA or AGS stones. It is certainly not unique to him. My main concern is making sure the certification is accurate therefore I want to be able to do my own analysis and have it independently appraised.

I understand why some people might see ''red flags'', but I can assure you that the ring I have seen that he designed for my gfs sister is gorgeous. I''m not saying I am going to use him for sure, but I will give him a shot at least. If he agrees to my terms and gets me a great stone at a great price, I''m happy.

HI:

As a Canadian, and an avid diamond shopper, I must say your (highlighted) statement is contrary any experience I have encountered with multiple vendors. My requests to view diamonds with AGS and GIA certs are met with ease (as they are common); in fact, in my experience, it is a GemScan certification that I rarely see.

Since you seem to have a good rapport with your jeweller, I hope you can find the same in an appraiser of your own choosing. Let us know what you decide! We love to see sparkly things!!!

cheers--Sharon