how reliable is fire trace? and EGL seems to have improved?

[Frenchtoast]

Hi everyone!
new questions
how reliable is fire trace in testing a diamond's brilliance, fire and scintillation? EGL uses this in their certificates now.. isn't that a significant improvement? or are they still regarded as lax graders?

Im now looking at a D, vs2 EGL certified diamond, it has triple ex on F, B, S on fire trace.. and i ran its proportions thru HCA.. it came out a TIC.. 0.9 or something..
and it'S a Hearts and arrows cut, with excellent symmetry,cut and polish..

too good to be true?? price is according to EGL cert prices.. so much cheaper than ags and GIA..
dealer also seems to be reputable, even tho i haven't spoken to him properly yet.. but have requested pics and a video...
let me know ur thoughts

this is for a 2.08 ct diamond..oh and i know that i might end up with an F if they grade it as D... but that's still pretty white no?

 

[arkieb1]

Re: how reliable is fire trace? and EGL seems to have improv

I am assuming because it has the fire trace thing it is EGL International not EGL USA. EGL International is typically 2 to 5 shades incorrect in colour and 2 to 3 but it can be more out on clarity compared to GIA. You need to post the numbers here for the experts to assess the cut for you.

There is no corner cutting when you are buying diamond, people who sell EGL International graded stones typically rip people off because think you are getting this magical deal but when you compare an apple for apples diamond graded by GIA they are usually not a good deal. Yes they are still being graded in places like India, Asia, Israel, and so on who have lower standard of grading and yes they are still frequently several colour and clarity grades out. The worst I have heard about is approx. 7 to 8 in colour and 5 in clarity.

 

[SirGuy]

Re: how reliable is fire trace? and EGL seems to have improv

too good to be true?? price is according to EGL cert prices.. so much cheaper than ags and GIA..

This is your question and answer all in one.

 

[Frenchtoast]

Re: how reliable is fire trace? and EGL seems to have improv

haha...
yes.. i know... but this is why i would need a reputable dealer to vet the stones for me... before i buy it..
the dealer would send 10x photos and 360 video of the diamonds...
i should be able to tell whether its a good buy or not no?
and SERIOUSLY? a D can be so many grades off it would be actually a G? i find that so hard to believe... D is supposed to be COLOURLESS.. that can't be difficult to grade...

thats so messed up..

 

[Lorelei]

Re: how reliable is fire trace? and EGL seems to have improv

Hi everyone!
new questions
how reliable is fire trace in testing a diamond's brilliance, fire and scintillation? EGL uses this in their certificates now.. isn't that a significant improvement? or are they still regarded as lax graders?

Im now looking at a D, vs2 EGL certified diamond, it has triple ex on F, B, S on fire trace.. and i ran its proportions thru HCA.. it came out a TIC.. 0.9 or something..
and it'S a Hearts and arrows cut, with excellent symmetry,cut and polish..

too good to be true?? price is according to EGL cert prices.. so much cheaper than ags and GIA..
dealer also seems to be reputable, even tho i haven't spoken to him properly yet.. but have requested pics and a video...
let me know ur thoughts

this is for a 2.08 ct diamond..oh and i know that i might end up with an F if they grade it as D... but that's still pretty white no?

FT, I know one of your main concerns is with the colour grade of a diamond, if you go this route there is a real possibility the stone could never be ' mind clean' for you and you wouldn't enjoy it, even with the extra size. Yes, the price of this stone could well be too good to be true, you have to ask why wasn't it sent to GIA or AGS for grading to be sold for considerably more money...? You do get what you pay for, rarely are there great deals and the diamond world is no exception. Depending on the accuracy of the grading, you could find your D stone actually grades far lower than the F you suppose, it might even grade to H give or take which isn't what you want if I remember rightly?

I am sorry to pour cold water on your new plan but from following your posts, I don't think this approach would make you happy.

 

[arkieb1]

Re: how reliable is fire trace? and EGL seems to have improv

haha...
yes.. i know... but this is why i would need a reputable dealer to vet the stones for me... before i buy it..
the dealer would send 10x photos and 360 video of the diamonds...
i should be able to tell whether its a good buy or not no?
and SERIOUSLY? a D can be so many grades off it would be actually a G? i find that so hard to believe... D is supposed to be COLOURLESS.. that can't be difficult to grade...

thats so messed up..

Yes D graded EGL International stones that to a layperson appear colourless have come back H or I coloured and VS2 clarity stones frequently have come back SI2 or lower down to I1s and I2s.

The only person that is going to "tell it like it really is" is a good Independent valuer which you will find a list of in the toolbar above, or tell everyone your general area and they will suggest appraisers for you. My fear is your "reputable dealer" may have some sort of vested interest in selling you this type of stone.

 

[Frenchtoast]

Re: how reliable is fire trace? and EGL seems to have improv

hmmmm.... dammit!

haha

Lorelei, i think i could be happy with an EGL D if it is really more of an F. To be honest the grade isn´t the issue for me, i just would like to have a GIA colorless diamond.I don't really care too much about the cert because i don't think I'm ever going to sell my e-ring. G to me still looks to have a bit of a tint.. so i was more concerned about ending up with an H with that AGS G... however WF have sent in new pics of the AGS G in similar lighting to how to GIA G was shot and they look fairly identical.. so if i go with a G, it´d definitely be the WF!

However, EGL is tempting me a little, with their D, VS1s... they aren't all cheap, 17,000-21,000 for 2-2.5cts.. I'm having someone vet some stones for me so we will see what they say! they will send me videos and pics so hopefully i should be able to see any warmth in the stones if any. If the D turns out to be an H well then thats just too bad... and really quite shocking!! I would really expect them to be no more than a G. All the stones I'm checking out now are all hearts and arrows and I've done all the HCA calculations on them and the scores are all below 1.5..

will keep u guys posted!!!

 

[elle_chris]

Re: how reliable is fire trace? and EGL seems to have improv

hmmmm.... dammit!

haha

Lorelei, i think i could be happy with an EGL D if it is really more of an F. To be honest the grade isn´t the issue for me, i just would like to have a GIA colorless diamond.I don't really care too much about the cert because i don't think I'm ever going to sell my e-ring. G to me still looks to have a bit of a tint.. so i was more concerned about ending up with an H with that AGS G... however WF have sent in new pics of the AGS G in similar lighting to how to GIA G was shot and they look fairly identical.. so if i go with a G, it´d definitely be the WF!

However, EGL is tempting me a little, with their D, VS1s... they aren't all cheap, 17,000-21,000 for 2-2.5cts.. I'm having someone vet some stones for me so we will see what they say! they will send me videos and pics so hopefully i should be able to see any warmth in the stones if any. If the D turns out to be an H well then thats just too bad... and really quite shocking!! I would really expect them to be no more than a G. All the stones I'm checking out now are all hearts and arrows and I've done all the HCA calculations on them and the scores are all below 1.5..

will keep u guys posted!!!

Just for s**ts and giggles I ran a search for GIA graded G, VS1's excellent cut stones between 2.05-2.50ct.
The cheapest was a 2.05ct with Strong Blue Fluoro at $24k. The ones w/out fluoro start at $30k for a 2.07ct G, VS1.
And remember, these are internet prices. Add on at least 5% for Brick and Mortar (I'm being very conservative too).

I don't know how much they'er asking for their D, VS1, but if it's between $17,000 and $21,000 you're not getting a G, VS1 either.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Re: how reliable is fire trace? and EGL seems to have improv

hmmmm.... dammit!


However, EGL is tempting me a little, with their D, VS1s... they aren't all cheap, 17,000-21,000 for 2-2.5cts.. I'm having someone vet some stones for me so we will see what they say! they will send me videos and pics so hopefully i should be able to see any warmth in the stones if any. If the D turns out to be an H well then thats just too bad... and really quite shocking!! I would really expect them to be no more than a G. All the stones I'm checking out now are all hearts and arrows and I've done all the HCA calculations on them and the scores are all below 1.5..

will keep u guys posted!!!

Too good to be true you can stop dreaming!..

here's a G SI1 2.5ct for $35K
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/2.502-g-si1-round-diamond-ags-bl-104072305010#similar

A 2ct H SI1 H&A stone is $26k
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/2.018-h-si1-round-diamond-bfg-11822

 

[Dancing Fire]

Re: how reliable is fire trace? and EGL seems to have improv

this is for a 2.08 ct diamond..oh and i know that i might end up with an F if they grade it as D... but that's still pretty white no?

GIA graded I SI1 will be somewhere near $20k

 

[Roqsteady]

Re: how reliable is fire trace? and EGL seems to have improv

No amount of prosumers telling you it's going to be ok/not ok to buy the diamond is going to change the truth. To know the truth, you can buy the diamond and send it to GIA or an independent appraiser yourself and then and only then will you have peace of mind of knowing what you bought in an EGL diamond.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Re: how reliable is fire trace? and EGL seems to have improv

To pour more fuel on the fire....
A consumer's risk is buying EGL misgraded diamonds is far higher in ostensibly high colored diamonds over 1ct.
Take a 2ct stone graded J by European EGL
Say it's actually an O-P ( this happened to a stone we bought)
The actual dollar difference between correctly graded, and misgraded price on an EGL graded J is a lot lower than the difference between a stone (mis)graded D- as it's most likely I or J SI2

So, the more a consumer thinks they're saving, the more EGL grades actually allow sellers to rip you off....sorry....

 

[Gypsy]

Re: how reliable is fire trace? and EGL seems to have improv

People suing over EGL: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/been-wondering-when-this-would-happen-lawsuit-over-grading.204318/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/been-wondering-when-this-would-happen-lawsuit-over-grading.204318/[/URL]

Avoid. Avoid. Avoid.

 

[Frenchtoast]

Re: how reliable is fire trace? and EGL seems to have improv

wow ok... that thread was quite recent!!
I would have thought they would have tried to meet GIA standards a bit more..
oh well..........