how much window is tolerable?

[haagen_dazs]

was this question ever posted?
how much window in a gemstone is tolerable?
i am sure there are alot of opinions but just wanted to hear what people have to say.

 

[T L]

Date: 1/29/2010 8:10:57 PM
Author:haagen_dazs
was this question ever posted?
how much window in a gemstone is tolerable?
i am sure there are alot of opinions but just wanted to hear what people have to say.

If the color is top and ultra vivid, and it''s a very rare stone (ie: untreated fine color Burmese ruby), then I don''t care about any size window.

However, 99% of stones do not fall into the above category, therefore, I don''t mind a minimal window that might close up in a setting, or if it''s a rare color, I don''t mind a larger window. Of course, I prefer no window, but that isn''t always the case.

For some people, no window is tolerable, so you''ll hear lots of opinions.

 

[Arkteia]

I''d defer to LD. She explained it to me very well in one of our discussions about alexandrites. My understanding is, in very expensive stones of excellent color it is tolerable even, as she said, "if it is the size of a patio door" because this material is rare, the cutters do poor job trying to preserve carat weight and if you really like the stone, grab it even with the window because you may not get a second chance to obtain a stone of similar qualities. But then we are talking about rare stones of exceptional qualities such as alexandrites or Paraibas. Or Kashmir sapphires. (Sorry, LD, I am not quoting you, it is just how I understood you and what I am now going to use if I am hunting for such a stone. Am I right?).
As to cheaper stones - well, I guess everyone has his own opinion. I have learned to recognize obvious "windows" but with smaller ones - all other factors considered, if a stone has a window, I''d buy it if the size of the window does not irritate me. Now it is becoming almost a physical feeling. I have no other criteria.

 

[chrono]

For super duper rare stones, I probably don''t care as much. Then again, I could never afford one of those. For me, only a small window will do if the colour is very fine and the material takes a while to find. Otherwise, I will not abide by any windows in more common material. Other than that, it is up to an individual''s tolerance level. There is no right or wrong answer.

 

[Nomsdeplume]

It''s up to the individual. I don''t mind windows that much, unless it really detracts from the color. If I love the color and I won''t find it again, I will buy it, whether it has a window or not.
Some people cannot stand even a small window.

 

[LD]

Thank you Crasru - yep I totally agree!

For me, the most difficult gemstones to get hold of are often cut for size rather than look because size = potentially more $s. So you have to decide whether you sacrifice the overall look but get a phenomenal gemstone. Having said that, everything else has to be right with the stone otherwise you''re just buying an expensive dud! So, if the colour, clarity, size, colour change (if appropriate) are right then for me cut is the last thing. However, if I''m paying over the odds i.e. more than a gemstone should be because it''s unique in some way, I''d really want the window to be as small as possible.

If you search under my name and have a look at my Paraiba collection what you''ll see is that I constantly say "this needs a recut" or "this has a window" or "this is poorly cut". However, I wouldn''t part with any of them because there''s always been something else that has attracted me.

Now then, ask me the same question for gemstones that are relatively easy to get hold of e.g. Aquamarine, Amethyst, Citrine, Peridot etc etc., the answer is I won''t tolerate a window. There''s no need because there''s always another waiting round the corner!

 

[T L]

Date: 1/30/2010 8:18:10 AM
Author: LovingDiamonds
Thank you Crasru - yep I totally agree!

For me, the most difficult gemstones to get hold of are often cut for size rather than look because size = potentially more $s. So you have to decide whether you sacrifice the overall look but get a phenomenal gemstone. Having said that, everything else has to be right with the stone otherwise you''re just buying an expensive dud! So, if the colour, clarity, size, colour change (if appropriate) are right then for me cut is the last thing. However, if I''m paying over the odds i.e. more than a gemstone should be because it''s unique in some way, I''d really want the window to be as small as possible.

If you search under my name and have a look at my Paraiba collection what you''ll see is that I constantly say ''this needs a recut'' or ''this has a window'' or ''this is poorly cut''. However, I wouldn''t part with any of them because there''s always been something else that has attracted me.

Now then, ask me the same question for gemstones that are relatively easy to get hold of e.g. Aquamarine, Amethyst, Citrine, Peridot etc etc., the answer is I won''t tolerate a window. There''s no need because there''s always another waiting round the corner!

Ha, and you''ll also see me begging and pleading with her not to recut one of them because the color is simply too amazing!!

 

[Edward Bristol]

All correct.

Also: A window usually comes in a trade-off to the visual size of a gem (face). A not-too-ugly (symmetric) window in 2 carats might well be worth overlooking if the gem has the appearance of a 4 carat gem.

And: The lighter the color, the bigger the window. A colorless gem covers a window very badly.

And: The bigger the window, the uglier the inclusions. A squeaky clean gem does not mind a window that much.

A deeply colored 2 carat gem with no visible inclusions and the face of a 4-carat steps is beyond the window.

 

[ericad]

This is a very interesting discussion to me. I''m just delving into the world of colored gemstones (personally interested in collecting) and am super neurotic. I thought even the tiniest of windows would bother me, but then I picked up a 2+ carat Tsavorite of phenomenal blue-green color and it does have a little subtle windowing but I could care less! So it really is a question of the material, price, and rarity/difficulty finding another like it. I imagine one day I''ll have a collection of dozens of gemstones that please me - some native cuts, come designer cuts, etc. Some bought just for the sake of rarity and industry standards of "desirability" and others just cuz I love them!

 

[Michael_E]

Date: 1/29/2010 8:10:57 PM
Author:haagen_dazs


how much window in a gemstone is tolerable?

It all depends on what is on the other side of the window. I think that people haven''t really used windows to their advantage yet and should probably put something interesting to look at on the other side of the window. Maybe a small diamond or other lightly saturated stone which can be seen through the window ? Make some nice lemonade with that lemon, eh ?

 

[Stone Hunter]

Date: 1/30/2010 10:45:53 AM
Author: Edward Bristol


All correct.

Also: A window usually comes in a trade-off to the visual size of a gem (face). A not-too-ugly (symmetric) window in 2 carats might well be worth overlooking if the gem has the appearance of a 4 carat gem.

And: The lighter the color, the bigger the window. A colorless gem covers a window very badly.

And: The bigger the window, the uglier the inclusions. A squeaky clean gem does not mind a window that much.

A deeply colored 2 carat gem with no visible inclusions and the face of a 4-carat steps is beyond the window.

Thanks. That's cool info. That's why in diamonds cut is so much more crucial for me than in colored stones...but since I don't buy super rare stones I always feel that a "better" overall stone will be available at some point if the stone I'm looking at has negatives.

I was subconciously requiring a better cut in the lighter stones I've been looking at.

ETA: To answer your question I just look closely at the photos and decide if I like enough about the stone overall to look at it IRL. And I prefer to use PS vendors and most of their stones are nicely cut. I am leary about ordering poorly cut native cut stones unless the rest of the stone is spectacular.

 

[Indylady]

I''ve rarely seen a serious collector''s gem in a precision cut; so, I think that native cutting and windows come with the territory of very fine pieces. In most other gems, one can "afford" the losses which it sometimes takes to reach a precision cut.

 

[haagen_dazs]

Date: 1/30/2010 3:23:33 PM
Author: Michael_E
It all depends on what is on the other side of the window. I think that people haven''t really used windows to their advantage yet and should probably put something interesting to look at on the other side of the window. Maybe a small diamond or other lightly saturated stone which can be seen through the window ? Make some nice lemonade with that lemon, eh ?

haha thats cool
i read that in the olden days, some ring designers included little mirrors inside where the diamond (or glass that appeared to be cut like diamond) was mounted so as to reflect the light back up...

 

[Arcadian]

For myself only;

if I''m setting the stone, a window is tolerable because it can sometime be closed if I get the right type of setting. If I''m getting a stone to play with, I really don''t care. I generally get the smallest I can find, who cares if its got a window if its a play stone?

Color is more important to me than a window, though if the window takes up the whole stone, its a deal breaker.

-A

 

[Arkteia]

Funny, I just looked at Smithsonian''s book of gems, not much info but OK for a beginner. They have decent pictures but most of their stones have pretty large windows! It seems that windows were more acceptable in old times. I have a couple of stones dating back to 30-es and 50-es, all windowed but they look OK!

 

[rosetta]

i have zero windowed stones.

but then again, i don''t have very expensive stones either, mostly because I don''t dare to set them (can''t seem to get loose stone insurance in the UK, if anyoen knows different, please tell me!)

i would tolerate a window the size of texas for a top paraiba

 

[chrono]

In old times, there was no such thing as precision cutting. All the work was done purely by the eye and experience on a jam peg machine. Cutters of those days did not have the luxury of software design and the machines used today. Not only that, size was (and still is) very important, so stones are cut to maximize carat weight and of course, to retain or even play up the colour as much as possible.

 

[Edward Bristol]

Date: 1/30/2010 5:24:42 PM
Author: IndyLady
I''ve rarely seen a serious collector''s gem in a precision cut; so, I think that native cutting and windows come with the territory of very fine pieces. In most other gems, one can ''afford'' the losses which it sometimes takes to reach a precision cut.

Yes, very correct.

The truly great colors always get cut early in the supply chain.

 

[LD]

Date: 2/1/2010 5:54:32 AM
Author: rosetta
i have zero windowed stones.

but then again, i don''t have very expensive stones either, mostly because I don''t dare to set them (can''t seem to get loose stone insurance in the UK, if anyoen knows different, please tell me!)

i would tolerate a window the size of texas for a top paraiba

Rosetta I don''t believe you can get insurance for this anywhere in the world. The UK is no different. I''ve had tons of pieces set and to date have only had one chipped stone. Just make sure you''re jeweller understands your gemstone and the care he needs to take when setting and you should be ok. That sounds a very basic thing to say but you''d be surprised how many jewellers only see diamonds, rubies and sapphires and not much else.