How much for this piece of coal?

[chriso906]

Hello

I''m a new member so go easy. I have been taking a passing interest buying and selling very small rings on ebay (usually for small proofits using the nice pics), mainly so I can take photos of them to see how they shine!

The other day, I saw a 1.15 diamond but with I3 clarity (!!!!!), princess cut, good, good, colour H and was a garbage price (albeing for a garbage ring)

I know it''s a stinker of a ring, but it took a fair photo so did it''s job. I paid £150 ($280), do you think Ill get my cash back on eBay or close to it (or dare I say it, a profit?)?

Thanks!!

Nice to be here by the way, and I am keen to learn!!

 

[Giangi]

Hi Chris, welcome.

Well, you''ll see I3 is not really the kind of stuff we appreciate the most over here...
That said, it''s really hard to state a value for such a ring. I3s can vary a lot. Some totally lack trasparency, some are cloudy and, by definition, they present inclusions that threathen the stone''s durability.
$280 is, if you allow me to joke, a garbage price. I think you may be able to get the same amout back or even make a small profit if you took really good pictures of it. But I suggest you to read the tutorials over here or at GoodOldGold.com to find out more about diamond grading.

 

[Lorelei]

Welcome Chris

Well....you got what you paid for obviously. What do you propose to do, try to get a refund or sell it yourself on Ebay? This diamond is probably no better than industrial quality at I3 clarity and I really doubt it displays any attractive qualities, as it is probably badly cut, plus has so many inclusions that sparkling would be out of the question for this diamond.

If you want to try to sell it yourself, there is a thread in the FAQ section about how to sell your jewellery...Also you have to bear in mind that in buying diamonds of such a low clarity, there is a fair chance that they might have durability issues such as large surface breaking feathers ( cracks), chips, strain, cleavage lines and all manner of things that could make these stones unsuitable for wear in a ring or even for setting in a ring.

Chris, if you stick around here, you will see that daily we are discussing some of the finest cut diamonds available, along with a mix of colours and clarities, but not as low as an I3! You will learn a great deal about diamonds and you will also probably find that your tastes will change when seeing some of the beauties here. In my opinion, I3 diamonds are rarely beautiful and not suitable for jewelry.

Buying and selling diamonds from a business point of view is best left to the professionals who know the pitfalls and how to avoid them and have the qualities and skill to survive in this business, it is rarely easy and the industry is based upon great trust between it's members, often family owned businesses and having the right contacts and privileges. I can't see that you are going to be successful selling such low quality goods unfortunately. They might have a market with some people who just want a big rock and aren't concerned with cut quality or any type of beauty, but these people would be very rare indeed. After all, what is the point in wearing something that doesn't sparkle that is often downright unattractive? Often I3 diamonds are so ugly that they embarrass the wearer

I am sorry that my post is to the point, but many here might tell you the same. Regarding the ring you have bought, possibly someone might buy it, but if as you say it is garbage and a stinker, I don't think the chances are great that anyone will see it and want it.

Maybe chalk it up to experience and stick around here and learn, you would be more than welcome to and then see after a while if you still think it is worth pursuing buying these low clarity diamonds. Maybe you might change your mind and find a whole new chapter of diamond 'interest' opening up to you.

One final thought...even if you take great pics of the ring and show it in an attractive light, if you sell it and the buyer opens the box and recoils in horror

, if it is as bad as you say, you might find it landing back on your doorstep at warp speed with indignant requests for an immediate refund being made, so your pictures might not find this diamond a permanent home anyway...

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 8/30/2006 6:36:19 AM
Author: Lorelei
Welcome Chris

Buying and selling diamonds from a business point of view is best left to the professionals who know the pitfalls and how to avoid them and have the qualities and skill to survive in this business, it is rarely easy and the industry is based upon great trust between it''s members, often family owned businesses and having the right contacts and privileges. I can''t see that you are going to be successful selling such low quality goods unfortunately. They might have a market with some people who just want a big rock and aren''t concerned with cut quality or any type of beauty, but these people would be very rare indeed. After all, what is the point in wearing something that doesn''t sparkle that is often downright unattractive? Often I3 diamonds are so ugly that they embarrass the wearer

I am sorry that my post is to the point, but many here might tell you the same. Regarding the ring you have bought, possibly someone might buy it, but if as you say it is garbage and a stinker, I don''t think the chances are great that anyone will see it and want it.

I dunno, praying on the ignorance of the less than average diamond buyer might get it done... I''ve seen some very less than average stones on a lot of fingers - many people don''t care which makes me wonder why they wanted a stone at all! I''m sure someone will think it''s a deal, ugly or not, to have an over one carat diamond on their finger for $300. Maybe it''s not bling bling but bleck bleck, but still... it takes up real estate on the finger and isn''t a lie to say it''s a diamond LOL

 

[denverappraiser]

People buy all kinds of crazy things on ebay and elsewhere based on skilled photography and creative descriptions as a way of misrepresenting what the seller has. Carefully done, it’s even legal but this doesn’t make it right.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA (AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 8/30/2006 11:08:24 AM
Author: denverappraiser

People buy all kinds of crazy things on ebay and elsewhere based on skilled photography and creative descriptions as a way of misrepresenting what the seller has. Carefully done, it’s even legal but this doesn’t make it right.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA (AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

I agree Neil. Let the buyer beware as in most things, you would think most people would realize at $280 a carat and I3 clarity would not be an attractive diamond in any way and would be so unattractive in most instances that the diamond wouldn't be wearable, regardless of the size. Most I3 diamonds are so badly included that they are little better than suited to industrial use, let alone jewellery.

With any item you are selling, there is nothing wrong with presenting it to it's best advantage such as washing and waxing your car, scrubbing your house etc, but to photograph a very low clarity diamond to make it look far better than it actually is doesn't make it right. Again buyer beware. Also as I said previously, making it appear far better than it actually is could easily backfire once the purchaser opens the box...Best to be upfront about what you are actually selling and let potential buyers decide for themselves....

 

[kenny]

Bingo.
I think it is unethical and I hate to see Pricescope coach you in this endeavor.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 8/30/2006 11:44:42 AM
Author: kenny
Bingo.
I think it is unethical and I hate to see Pricescope coach you in this endeavor.

Kenny what do you mean about Pricescope coaching him in this endeavor?

 

[WinkHPD]

I have to take an opposing point of view here, although I know it will not be popular.

The VAST majority of diamonds sold in this country are not the kind of diamonds that we pricescopers demand. Our supplicant could easily make a nice profit, ethically, on this stone, and if I only wanted to make money in the trade I would deal in a much lower quality of diamond than I currently do. Dirt Cheap Diamonds has grown huge by offering what the market wanted, not just what he wanted to sell. (That is a compliment to his business model, please read it as such.)

There is nothing unethical about buying such drek and reselling it, so long as it is ethically presented, and a good photo is not unethical, so long as it does not disguise or hide the diamond''s true characteristics. It is certainly more ethical than the big box stores selling stones with questionable certs with ridicules "retail" values stated on those certs.

Keystone light makes a fortune selling cruddy beer because it is cheap and drinkable by those who have not learned to appreciate the finer beers. Oh, and there are many who would look down their nose at ANY beer as being unworthy.

We should remember that there is room in the market for what we like and what we loathe, and that we are not entitled to set the standards for others.

That having been said, I prefer to work with those who take the time to learn more about my business and who are willing to pay for the quality that I personally enjoy and choose to work with. Why someone would want an I3 is a mystery to me, but I know that they are there and that they are part of the market. It is not unethical to deliver product to them at the price they are willing to pay, just something that most of us here would not enjoy.

Wink

 

[devientdrow]

Date: 8/30/2006 12:09:45 PM
Author: Wink
I have to take an opposing point of view here, although I know it will not be popular.

The VAST majority of diamonds sold in this country are not the kind of diamonds that we pricescopers demand. Our supplicant could easily make a nice profit, ethically, on this stone, and if I only wanted to make money in the trade I would deal in a much lower quality of diamond than I currently do. Dirt Cheap Diamonds has grown huge by offering what the market wanted, not just what he wanted to sell. (That is a compliment to his business model, please read it as such.)

There is nothing unethical about buying such drek and reselling it, so long as it is ethically presented, and a good photo is not unethical, so long as it does not disguise or hide the diamond''s true characteristics. It is certainly more ethical than the big box stores selling stones with questionable certs with ridicules ''retail'' values stated on those certs.

Keystone light makes a fortune selling cruddy beer because it is cheap and drinkable by those who have not learned to appreciate the finer beers. Oh, and there are many who would look down their nose at ANY beer as being unworthy.

We should remember that there is room in the market for what we like and what we loathe, and that we are not entitled to set the standards for others.

That having been said, I prefer to work with those who take the time to learn more about my business and who are willing to pay for the quality that I personally enjoy and choose to work with. Why someone would want an I3 is a mystery to me, but I know that they are there and that they are part of the market. It is not unethical to deliver product to them at the price they are willing to pay, just something that most of us here would not enjoy.

Wink

I get what your saying but I think the original poster was trying to ask if he took a good photo of this ring, could he get more on ebay for it than what he paid. In interpret that as trying to make it look better than it is. I think even on DCD they didn''t have something THAT low in quality and it''s all put out there, honestly.

 

[pricescope]

Date: 8/30/2006 11:47:43 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 8/30/2006 11:44:42 AM
Author: kenny
Bingo.
I think it is unethical and I hate to see Pricescope coach you in this endeavor.

Kenny what do you mean about Pricescope coaching him in this endeavor?

Lorelei, I think Kenny meant that he hates to see this forum to teach chriso906 how to do that. I agree

 

[kenny]

I think everyone here is right and has a valid point.

Obviously people don't "want" I3s.
They want a large stone - cheap.

They are not commiting a crime, nor are the reputable sellers of these stones.
Yes, good photos are good selling tools.
You can experiment with soft even dome lighting and depth of focus to make inclusions less noticeable.
Where that crosses the line into deception and fraud is not absolute, especially if there is a reputable lab report.

I did get the feeling from the original post that some degree of misrepresentation for profit was intended.
If I am wrong I appologize.

 

[Lorelei]

No worries Kenny I misunderstood! Thanks for the response, I get what you meant now

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 8/30/2006 12:09:45 PM
Author: Wink
Why someone would want an I3 is a mystery to me, but I know that they are there and that they are part of the market. It is not unethical to deliver product to them at the price they are willing to pay, just something that most of us here would not enjoy.

Wink

I think those who would want a stone like this wouldn''t even know what an I3 was or what it meat and likely wouldn''t even care. They might know what "flawless" was but they might think there''s flawless and less than flawless LOL for them a 1 carat $300 deal might be more than they ever thought possible!

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 8/30/2006 12:41:20 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

Date: 8/30/2006 12:09:45 PM
Author: Wink
Why someone would want an I3 is a mystery to me, but I know that they are there and that they are part of the market. It is not unethical to deliver product to them at the price they are willing to pay, just something that most of us here would not enjoy.

Wink

I think those who would want a stone like this wouldn''t even know what an I3 was or what it meat and likely wouldn''t even care. They might know what ''flawless'' was but they might think there''s flawless and less than flawless LOL for them a 1 carat $300 deal might be more than they ever thought possible!

Sadly you are probably correct.

I remember a time in Antwerp when I had the opportunity to buy a large parcel of 1.10 - 1.4ct diamonds that were okay cuts, with maybe on SI2 and the rest I1 stones at a ridicules price. (They were actually pretty too, although not the quality of cut that I carry today!) I bought the parcel and sold all ten stones in a matter of weeks at a much higher profit margin than I make on my wonderful H&A cut diamonds. Although I made good money, quickly, I never rebought, I just hated it every time I sold one of those diamonds as they were not what I wanted to sell. They made a lot of people very happy though, and I have never forgotten that there is definitley a market for the lower qualities, just not one I want to work. When you are the boss you can do things your way, even if it costs you money...

Wink

 

[Rod]

Date: 8/30/2006 1:41:57 PM
Author: Wink

Date: 8/30/2006 12:41:20 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

Date: 8/30/2006 12:09:45 PM
Author: Wink
Why someone would want an I3 is a mystery to me, but I know that they are there and that they are part of the market. It is not unethical to deliver product to them at the price they are willing to pay, just something that most of us here would not enjoy.

Wink

I think those who would want a stone like this wouldn''t even know what an I3 was or what it meat and likely wouldn''t even care. They might know what ''flawless'' was but they might think there''s flawless and less than flawless LOL for them a 1 carat $300 deal might be more than they ever thought possible!

Sadly you are probably correct.

I remember a time in Antwerp when I had the opportunity to buy a large parcel of 1.10 - 1.4ct diamonds that were okay cuts, with maybe on SI2 and the rest I1 stones at a ridicules price. (They were actually pretty too, although not the quality of cut that I carry today!) I bought the parcel and sold all ten stones in a matter of weeks at a much higher profit margin than I make on my wonderful H&A cut diamonds. Although I made good money, quickly, I never rebought, I just hated it every time I sold one of those diamonds as they were not what I wanted to sell. They made a lot of people very happy though, and I have never forgotten that there is definitley a market for the lower qualities, just not one I want to work. When you are the boss you can do things your way, even if it costs you money...

Wink

Wink.....once upon a time I was in the retail audio business in one of the finest audio stores in the country. Along came this VP, who felt we should appeal to people who would buy in Montgomery Ward and who wanted a pre-packaged "in-a-rack" all in one system with speakers and everything. What he had us trying to sell was literally and utterly crap. And I simply could not sell it to anyone. My motto has alwasy been if something''s good enough for me personally, I can recommend it to someone else. If something''s not good enough for me, I couldn''t recommend it to someone else regardless of whether it would bring monetary reward to me personally.

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 8/30/2006 1:52:59 PM
Author: Rod

Wink.....once upon a time I was in the retail audio business in one of the finest audio stores in the country. Along came this VP, who felt we should appeal to people who would buy in Montgomery Ward and who wanted a pre-packaged ''in-a-rack'' all in one system with speakers and everything. What he had us trying to sell was literally and utterly crap. And I simply could not sell it to anyone. My motto has alwasy been if something''s good enough for me personally, I can recommend it to someone else. If something''s not good enough for me, I couldn''t recommend it to someone else regardless of whether it would bring monetary reward to me personally.

Obviously I agree since I now sell mostly only VERY fine cuts of diamonds. I sell a few lesser cuts because of trade ins, consignments etc, but even the "bargain" stones (eye clean to eye cleanish I''s) that I sell these days are cut to H&A precision. At nearly 60 years of age I am spoiled enough to do mostly what I want to do.

Still I have to remember that I am but a part of the market, not the whole market. Heck, if it was up to me, the rappers would all have to get a real job somewhere...

Wink

 

[kcoursolle]

I''m going to go out on a limb here and say that someone might actually want this diamond. It''s not something i''d buy, but diamonds should be appreciated even if they are included. For example, there are people out there who don''t care a twit about quality, they just want the feeling that they have a big stone! Often times they don''t want to or can''t pay for a big stone. Someone like that might want this stone. Also, someone might want this stone for other purposes than wearing as jewelry. Purhaps they enjoy looking at inclusions and wanted to add it to their gem collection. Who knows, people are weird creaters. If you sell if on ebay with a low starting bid I bet people will bid on it...after all you did.

 

[chriso906]

Hello everyone!

Thanks for all your comments I really appreciate them. OK, my main reasons for buying the ring were as follows.

I had never seen a full 1 carat close up, having been used to having tiny pieces through my hands, I was keen to see the difference not only in size, but what poor clarity does to a rock, and if nothign else, it has serves as a good education on what inclusions do to rocks., and more importantly, to get me to have more ''rock'' photos in my portfolio (even if it is of rubbish)

As for selling it, I will be selling it ethically, saying that it is a ''cloudy diamond'' and I3. I think it will probably end up in the hands of someone who wants it for saying ''I own a 1 ct diamond'' even if it is poor.

I will be more than happy to show you the link once I have listed it to show you that I will be selling it on ethically. My intentions arent to mislead people or con them, but to get a good understanding of stones by having them through my hands.

If you want to see fraud, check out platinumdiamonds on eBay, he is selling I2''s and making them look like flawless rocks. Now that, I think is a con.

Thanks again, feel free to comment any way you see fit, I''m only here to learn!!!

 

[Rod]

Date: 8/30/2006 4:53:17 PM
Author: chriso906
Hello everyone!

Thanks for all your comments I really appreciate them. OK, my main reasons for buying the ring were as follows.

I had never seen a full 1 carat close up, having been used to having tiny pieces through my hands, I was keen to see the difference not only in size, but what poor clarity does to a rock, and if nothign else, it has serves as a good education on what inclusions do to rocks., and more importantly, to get me to have more ''rock'' photos in my portfolio (even if it is of rubbish)

As for selling it, I will be selling it ethically, saying that it is a ''cloudy diamond'' and I3. I think it will probably end up in the hands of someone who wants it for saying ''I own a 1 ct diamond'' even if it is poor.

I will be more than happy to show you the link once I have listed it to show you that I will be selling it on ethically. My intentions arent to mislead people or con them, but to get a good understanding of stones by having them through my hands.

If you want to see fraud, check out platinumdiamonds on eBay, he is selling I2''s and making them look like flawless rocks. Now that, I think is a con.

Thanks again, feel free to comment any way you see fit, I''m only here to learn!!!

Interesting reason as to why you would purchase a poor quality stone, but hey........who are we to judge. We''re good friendly people here on PS who truly hope that sellers will be ethical and never misrepresent an item. We''ve seen many many many horror stories of people being sold a bill of goods only to receive frozen spit and have no recourse. Speaking for myself, as long as you represent this stone as exactly what it is and you offer someone a full buyback if they are not satisfied and live up to the promises you make, that''s all anyone can ask for.

 

[:)]

Date: 8/30/2006 1:59:45 PM
Author: Wink

Date: 8/30/2006 1:52:59 PM
Author: Rod

Wink.....once upon a time I was in the retail audio business in one of the finest audio stores in the country. Along came this VP, who felt we should appeal to people who would buy in Montgomery Ward and who wanted a pre-packaged ''in-a-rack'' all in one system with speakers and everything. What he had us trying to sell was literally and utterly crap. And I simply could not sell it to anyone. My motto has alwasy been if something''s good enough for me personally, I can recommend it to someone else. If something''s not good enough for me, I couldn''t recommend it to someone else regardless of whether it would bring monetary reward to me personally.

Obviously I agree since I now sell mostly only VERY fine cuts of diamonds. I sell a few lesser cuts because of trade ins, consignments etc, but even the ''bargain'' stones (eye clean to eye cleanish I''s) that I sell these days are cut to H&A precision. At nearly 60 years of age I am spoiled enough to do mostly what I want to do.

Still I have to remember that I am but a part of the market, not the whole market. Heck, if it was up to me, the rappers would all have to get a real job somewhere...

Wink

hee hee - but if the rappers all got real jobs, who would buy all the bling bling?!!

Someone has to keep the diamond dealers in business! (Just teasing you!)

 

[pricescope]

Date: 8/30/2006 4:53:17 PM
Author: chriso906
Hello everyone!

Thanks for all your comments I really appreciate them. OK, my main reasons for buying the ring were as follows.

I had never seen a full 1 carat close up, having been used to having tiny pieces through my hands, I was keen to see the difference not only in size, but what poor clarity does to a rock, and if nothign else, it has serves as a good education on what inclusions do to rocks., and more importantly, to get me to have more ''rock'' photos in my portfolio (even if it is of rubbish)

As for selling it, I will be selling it ethically, saying that it is a ''cloudy diamond'' and I3. I think it will probably end up in the hands of someone who wants it for saying ''I own a 1 ct diamond'' even if it is poor.

I will be more than happy to show you the link once I have listed it to show you that I will be selling it on ethically. My intentions arent to mislead people or con them, but to get a good understanding of stones by having them through my hands.

If you want to see fraud, check out platinumdiamonds on eBay, he is selling I2''s and making them look like flawless rocks. Now that, I think is a con.

Thanks again, feel free to comment any way you see fit, I''m only here to learn!!!

We are sure you will be, but you can''t - it''s against the Policies, please read them again.
Thank you.