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How does your DH feel about having children?

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Sha - start with one! I always said that I wanted 2. DH wanted 2. And then we had 1. Both DH and I agree that we do not want anymore - enough fun with our mini man!

Kids are a huge change, but so much for the better. I had a really crappy day today, but I could not sit around and mope tonight - my little guy needed me. And in the end, he made me feel better! We did our nightly snuggle on the sofa and I let the crappy day go away. There are just so many of those little moments that make having kids so worthwhile!!! And I think that your hubby will see that and feel that once you have a little one of your own!
 
Sha,

I hadn''t realized that your partner was almost 40. That''s a lot of years for him to think about having kids and reach a deciison. It sounds like I want kids as much as you do, Sha, and to me, having kids is the most important goal in my life. Bar none. If I were in your shoes, I think I would be feeling exactly like it seems that you feel: worried, confused, questioning. I think in your shoes I would probably go to counciling with my hubby so that we could talk about our true feeling in a "safe" environment, because for me I''d wanna know where my hubby really stood on the issue. But maybe talking about it isn''t required, maybe he just needs some time or space to get comfortable with the idea and then when your kids come he will flip for the kid. Or he may be like my father and many of my friend''s fathers and flake out after a few years. There''s just no way to predict that, for anyone in any marrige.

Whenever I am worrying about a big issue in my life, I try to reel myself in from projectng the issue too far in the future (oh my god, I won''t get a job? Or what if I don''t get a job for 2 more year, then when will we have kids? How old will I be? Will I be too old? When if I never have a family??") and stick to the present. I try to only worry about decisions that need to be made immediately, this keeps me from getting too obsessed with an issue. So immediately you need to decide whether you want kids immediately. You maybe also need to decide if you want a firmer answer fron your hubby or not, and maybe want to seek counciling. Maybe you need to decide if you want to "jump ship" and find a husband who wants 10 babies. I suspect the answer to these questions is "No," "Maybe" and "No way!" so I bet you can put this issue on the backburner and wait until Oct and then revisit the issue. Then at that time you can decide how firm your Oct deadline is and then make a decision about how you want to proceed about the issue when that time comes and the decision actually needs to be made.

I feel for you sister, it is frustrating when goals seem to conflict, or not be as in synch as we would like!

DD
 
Your "quality of life" is a totally subjective term, and I would assume that people who don''t like children or being silly and having to deal with a mess every now and then (or every day) would think that statement was true. However, I believe *our* quality of life will soar upon having children. We love children, we eagerly await the years of watching them grow, leading them, helping them grow into people they''ll love as adults, and teaching them about the important things in life (by example). We look forward to family trips, and I can''t wait to be a mother.

I think one thing men think about to a bigger, deeper degree than most (not all) women do prior to having children is the financial responsibility. I know that a baby can be raised to be a wonderful person without money being a priority, I see it daily (I''m a social worker). I also know having the *better* things can be helpful to children (but also a hinder, too).

Paul and I have always said we wanted to start our family relatively soon after marrying, and had said we''d give ourselves 10 months to a year before we started actively trying to have a baby. Then, we found out that it would take longer than planned to find our house. We both want to have an actual place for our baby to live before we get pregnant. Now, however, he''s saying he wants us to have a certain amount of money saved before we have a baby. If we weren''t about to purchase a home, that would be no big deal. But most of our savings will go into our home. SO, it kind of feels like we''re starting a square one again. It''s a little bit daunting, but I know that things will be fine, and if we do save the substantial amount he is talking about, it''ll be for the good, too, should I end up not working once the little one is here. (It also gives him a reason to get serious about saving, which is WONDERFUL, as I''ve always been the bigger saver.)

We''ll never be wealthy (unless God has things in store we cannot fathom), but we don''t care about that. We have this awesome opportunity to watch this child grow, and to help him or her to become someone who cares about the world, to show them about the love of Jesus, and to learn more than we can imagine from them. And, we have a reason to continue being silly to boot! Now that''s the kind of QUALITY of life I dream about!!
 
Great points fisher!

DD
 
Ah, yes, the silliness factor. You''re on to something there, Fisher! I think that''s one of the points we''re both most excited about. We''re both, basically, ridiculous people in private, and the idea that we have an actual license to be ridiculous once there are little people around - even in public - is so exciting. Teehee!
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Fisher, I think you are right that for men there is alot of financial responsibility or "weight" tied up in having children, for good reason. As I am the primary provider, it seemed like so much more of a weight going from 1 to 2 kids.

For my husband and I, we did not have much money at all when we had our first. It is amazing all the stuff we got as heirlooms, hand me downs or thrifted, practically the only thing we bought new was the crib.
I don''t think babies and young children need as much money, as they required alot of time and attention. It is more to think about and plan when it is a good time where there can be one parent who can stay at home at that time without adversley affecting finances or career. It''s better to arrange it when you are cash poor and time rich, rather than vice versa.

So, while it is nice to save some money when planning a child (for the peace of mind) it is not necessary, especially if finances will improve over time. Most important of all is that both parents are on the same page about having children, as it is a big commitment!
 
Date: 2/23/2008 12:04:00 PM
Author: part gypsy

Most important of all is that both parents are on the same page about having children, as it is a big commitment!
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I couldn''t agree about this last bit more. I think that hoping that your DH (or wife for that matter) will bond to a baby once its born even if they don''t want one to begin with is a bit tenuous. I''d much rather go into it knowing that both partners are on the same page. Maybe my point of view is biased because my parents had a horrible divorce (though not for that reason) and I would hate for any kid to go through what I went through.

My DH and I are both unsure about having children, and currently leaning towards the "no" camp. We really enjoy our lives as they are and have a lot we want to achieve in our careers. We''ve talking about it, and we feel that the little spare time we do and will have is better spent enjoying each other and experiencing life together.

That said, we are still young (25) and so we have time to change our minds.

Also, I wanted to comment on the nurturing/pets link. My DH is incredible with animals and loves them to death - we have three cats and he dotes on them (as do I), and we both look forward to the day we can get a dog (or two or three). We both volunteer training dogs at our local animal shelter and my DH is wonderful with all of the animals there. So I don''t think there is necessarily a link there. Of course, he is also good with children, since there were a lot of little ones in his family growing up, but that still doesn''t mean he wants kids of his (our) own.
 
Thanks for all your helpful replies!
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I guess there''s no way of knowing which way it''ll pan out until it happens.... I''ll continue thinking about it but I''ll drop the topic with DH for a while and concentrate on finishing my current studies, and just enjoying my husband! Everybody has told us that things change so much when you have a baby, so we need to enjoy our time together now. We''ll see how things will change later in the year, if anything.

Good luck to those of you who are TTC, or soon will be TTCing! Baby dust!!
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I admit the children issue between me and my DH (to be) has me deeply, deeply concerned. I will not be having children; I have prohibitive health issues that would make bearing children a deathwish, but more than that, I really, really dislike children.

I don't enjoy their company and equate what my life would be like as a mother as some sort of tailor-made personal hell; my temperment, education investment, and chosen passion/profession would produce a neglectful, potential-squandered, fiercely resentful woman who would be either furious at her children from stealing her time away from her work or unheedful of the baby being on fire until it affected her lighting conditions. Not doing too well so far.

Plus, I just don't want them. I have no maternal instincts to speak of, and occasionally dismay my FF as he makes remarks to the effect of "You know, your hatred of children really isn't normal [healthy]".

What keeps me awake at night is that my FF and I cleared children during our first conversation, where he stated he was ambivalent about children to the point where he planned to go with what his wife wanted, so no kids was not a "dealbreaker". Now, there are occasional rumblings about children, (usually when he's drunk and 1000 miles away from me), and many, MANY heartfelt serious conversations have been had, and he has flatly stated that it is a non-issue for him because not having children with me is expontentially better than having children.

He's also said I will have to have faith in his word that he is okay with it, but my biggest fear in the relationship is that his biological clock will go off in 10 years and I will face killing him by increments day by day as I deny him fatherhood. I consider children to be Relationships 101: you have to agree on them. If he had not claimed he was 100% fine with not having them, I would have never started this relationship, because it would be doomed from the start. I have already made it clear that I will not marry someone who wants children, so that if he changes his mind, we will divorce and he is free to marry a woman who wants them.

Needless to say, that doesn't go over well. He is right that all I can do right now is trust him and trust he is being honest with me about his feelings towards not having children, but I remain uneasy. Only time will tell. I don't think I am being unreasonable to be so afraid of this less ambivalent development, what do you ladies think?
 
Date: 2/24/2008 5:01:28 PM
Author: Galateia
I admit the children issue between me and my DH (to be) has me deeply, deeply concerned. I will not be having children; I have prohibitive health issues that would make bearing children a deathwish, but more than that, I really, really dislike children.

I don''t enjoy their company and equate what my life would be like as a mother as some sort of tailor-made personal hell; my temperment, education investment, and chosen passion/profession would produce a neglectful, potential-squandered, fiercely resentful woman who would be either furious at her children from stealing her time away from her work or unheedful of the baby being on fire until it affected her lighting conditions. Not doing too well so far.

Plus, I just don''t want them. I have no maternal instincts to speak of, and occasionally dismay my FF as he makes remarks to the effect of ''You know, your hatred of children really isn''t normal [healthy]''.

What keeps me awake at night is that my FF and I cleared children during our first conversation, where he stated he was ambivalent about children to the point where he planned to go with what his wife wanted, so no kids was not a ''dealbreaker''. Now, there are occasional rumblings about children, (usually when he''s drunk and 1000 miles away from me), and many, MANY heartfelt serious conversations have been had, and he has flatly stated that it is a non-issue for him because not having children with me is expontentially better than having children.

He''s also said I will have to have faith in his word that he is okay with it, but my biggest fear in the relationship is that his biological clock will go off in 10 years and I will face killing him by increments day by day as I deny him fatherhood. I consider children to be Relationships 101: you have to agree on them. If he had not claimed he was 100% fine with not having them, I would have never started this relationship, because it would be doomed from the start. I have already made it clear that I will not marry someone who wants children, so that if he changes his mind, we will divorce and he is free to marry a woman who wants them.

Needless to say, that doesn''t go over well. He is right that all I can do right now is trust him and trust he is being honest with me about his feelings towards not having children, but I remain uneasy. Only time will tell. I don''t think I am being unreasonable to be so afraid of this less ambivalent development, what do you ladies think?
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Galateia I think you are totally right about the importance of agreeing about this issue! Something that you wrote kinda made my alarms ring: "Now, there are occasional rumblings about children, (usually when he''s drunk and 1000 miles away from me), and many, MANY heartfelt serious conversations have been had, and he has flatly stated that it is a non-issue for him because not having children with me is expontentially better than having children." I guess I wonder, as you seem to be wondering, whether as time ticks by he will feel the same way about choosing you over choosing to have children. That is a tough choice to make (my partner or kids), and I''m not sure it is a choice anyone can actually make. By that I mean that you can make a choice in the short term, but in the longer term resentments could develop about having had to make the choice at all. I also wonder if his judgement of your decision not to have kids ("its not normal") is another hint that maybe he isn''t on the same page as you? I guess I''d feel the same way you are feeling, if I were in your shoes.

DD
 
Date: 2/24/2008 5:01:28 PM
Author: Galateia
He is right that all I can do right now is trust him and trust he is being honest with me about his feelings towards not having children, but I remain uneasy. Only time will tell. I don't think I am being unreasonable to be so afraid of this less ambivalent development, what do you ladies think?
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You're also having to trust that he is being honest with himself -- both you and Sha do, actually -- and that may be even more difficult than being honest with you.

I wish I had words of wisdom to offer but I don't. I just hope that each of you keeps talking about this with your respective partners. And I hope that you and your DH's will bring trusted sounding boards (meaning confidantes, not forums!) , professional or otherwise, in to the conversation if it will help.

*hugs and good wishes*
 
Date: 2/25/2008 12:04:14 AM
Author: dreamer_dachsie

Galateia I think you are totally right about the importance of agreeing about this issue! Something that you wrote kinda made my alarms ring: 'Now, there are occasional rumblings about children, (usually when he's drunk and 1000 miles away from me), and many, MANY heartfelt serious conversations have been had, and he has flatly stated that it is a non-issue for him because not having children with me is expontentially better than having children.' I guess I wonder, as you seem to be wondering, whether as time ticks by he will feel the same way about choosing you over choosing to have children. That is a tough choice to make (my partner or kids), and I'm not sure it is a choice anyone can actually make. By that I mean that you can make a choice in the short term, but in the longer term resentments could develop about having had to make the choice at all. I also wonder if his judgement of your decision not to have kids ('its not normal') is another hint that maybe he isn't on the same page as you? I guess I'd feel the same way you are feeling, if I were in your shoes.


DD
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Thanks for your reply
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I think I may have confused one point, he is dismayed by how much I utterly loathe and detest children, not suggesting I wasn't normal for not wanting them. I just didn't want to distress any of the lovely people on this board who do treasure and want children. I was trying to delicately say that I really cannot stand children ... to the point where I have to control myself from scowling openly at rambunctious children and their parents who are helpless to curb childhood itself.

If I am out at a restaurant and there are children there that I can hear, if I'm in a bad mood, I would rather give up on having my meal than endure high-pitched shrieks while I'm paying to eat.

I just didn't want to get into the gory details or I'd sound like a horrible human being.
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He's right, it's not normal to abhor children to the extent that I do.

And I do worry about it; it's a complicated issue and I have a tendency to hamster-head about things. When it comes up he's intoxicated and miserable at our 1000 mile separation (we've been apart for over a year and a half thanks to our visa process) and wracked with guilt over what I'm giving up to be with him; that's when it comes up to that he's making sacrifices, too. I should also clarify that he rarely gets drunk (I think he's been drunk perhaps 3 times in the last year, maybe) but when he does, apparently he mixes his drinks with Stupid Syrup.
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Another piece of information I should have included is that his ambivalence towards children shifted when we became serious; he became interested in having children with me.

However, if I trust this man, which I do, all I can do is take him at his word that it is a small price to pay for him. I have to remind myself not to project what I think he "must be feeling, because most men would" but instead listen to what how he describes his feelings, but my fears are so quick to jump to "It's a Big Issue!" that I allow myself to uselessly fret over it.

If long-term resentment does begin to build, I would rather just free him to find someone else who wants children. But for now, I have to trust him when he says that he is happy being with me and is looking forward to spending our retirement tootling around the world and enjoying the fruits of our labours.

With this kinds of situations, it's so important to do serious soul-searching to determine where you stand and listen to what your partner is telling you. The trouble is that it may not be as cut-and-dried as "Do you want kids? Y/N" I can only hope that other couples have the same level of discussion and communication in their relationships to permit an examination of their feelings about it as a couple.

If that makes any sense. I'm going on day two of 3 hours of sleep, and I could be blithering senselessly.
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ETA: Minims, you replied when I was typing, so I didn't see your post before, but I think you hit the nail on the head nicely, thank you.
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My mother is my best confidant, and the wisest person I know; she tells me I'm being an idiot and looking for excuses to be anxious because I'm a worrywort by nature. She doesn't phrase it that way, of course, but the gist is the same!
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My FI definitely has the baby bug and can''t wait to have children! I want them too, but I''m not ready just yet.

Indy''s comment about resentful dads/husbands really resonated with me. FI told me last fall that he believes the only reason his father married and had children was because he felt obligated. He''s bitter, resentful and even mean on occasion. FI''s parents have a miserable marriage and FI says he definitely wasn''t/isn''t the best dad ever. Of course, I don''t feel that it''s your situation, Sha, but it really struck a cord with me!

Maybe what you should do is try to find of what''s really going on in your DH''s mind. Maybe it''s just cold feet... But if your DH is almost 40, maybe he''d prefer not having more than one child. He''s lived a long time without children, he''s probably reluctant to let this lifestyle go.

Good luck!
 
Galateia, Ahhhh.... sounds like you have a good take on the situation and a good plan and good people to talk to. Thanks for clarifying!

Oh and I agree with your FF that it a odd to detest kids that much
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Seek help now! hee hee... I will love MY kids, but I am not sure it is so strange to find other people''s kids terribly annoying at times. I know I do. I find other people''s husbands terribly annoying at times, and their pets. But love mine!

DD
 
Wow, Galateia, I can understand your concern about your FF, since your feelings against children are pretty strong. I guess I have the opposite situation to you. But I guess we have the same issue, in the sense of not necessarily being on the same page as our SO''s, and not knowing whether that will change. I feel ya. It''s a really difficult situation to be in.

Anchor, I think you''re right about him not wanting to let the ''carefree'' lifestyle go, and have it replaced by diapers, sleepless nights, no money... etc. Now ME - I feel like we''ve had 30+ years to ourselves, WHY NOT share it with a child? But I think it all harks back to his childhood when he had to do the childcare stuff before he was ready. So now his view of childcare is tainted, I think.
 
Galateila, don''t feel bad, I''m in a similar boat. I also detest children. My husband and I had a long conversation about children and the possibility of having them before we married. I was very clear that I would not be having children, but if he felt that he could not live his life without kids, then he should marry someone else. He was perfectly fine with not having kids. He was firmly in the "I think that I might like kids someday, eventually, but I don''t know when, and I''m not worried about it." But he also couldn''t care less if he didn''t have them.

Well, when we married, I was on Norplant, soon it was time to get the Norplant taken out and we needed another birth control option. I was pushing for a permanent option but was willing to use the pill as long as my DH was aware that I would get an abortion if I got pregnant. By that time he was also sure that he didn''t want kids. I was finishing up law school and I knew that I would be busy with my career. DH is also very busy with his career. Besides we are just not kid people. We don''t even like being around them. We actually don''t even have friends (other than one divorced friend) with kids (this is not hard to do in D.C.).

DH had a vasectomy. We had to have a couple conversations with the Doctor since we don''t have kids, but it wasn''t as big of a deal as I thought it would be. We''ve never looked back and we''re still thrilled with our decision not to have kids. I think that it''s a myth that women that don''t have kids end up regretting their decision. Three women in my office are childfree. One woman has one kid that she regrets having. I have had more women tell me that children are not all they''re cracked up to be and they''re not worth the effort more than I''ve heard how wonderful they are. But that may be based on being an attorney and my location.

As an aside, I also don''t think that there is a connection between loving/not loving pets and kids. We have 3 dogs and 4 cats. I LOVE animals. But I can''t even be in the same room as kids, the same goes for my husband.
 
Date: 2/27/2008 8:42:00 PM
Author: Fed
Galateila, don''t feel bad, I''m in a similar boat. I also detest children. My husband and I had a long conversation about children and the possibility of having them before we married. I was very clear that I would not be having children, but if he felt that he could not live his life without kids, then he should marry someone else. He was perfectly fine with not having kids. He was firmly in the ''I think that I might like kids someday, eventually, but I don''t know when, and I''m not worried about it.'' But he also couldn''t care less if he didn''t have them.

Well, when we married, I was on Norplant, soon it was time to get the Norplant taken out and we needed another birth control option. I was pushing for a permanent option but was willing to use the pill as long as my DH was aware that I would get an abortion if I got pregnant. By that time he was also sure that he didn''t want kids. I was finishing up law school and I knew that I would be busy with my career. DH is also very busy with his career. Besides we are just not kid people. We don''t even like being around them. We actually don''t even have friends (other than one divorced friend) with kids (this is not hard to do in D.C.).

DH had a vasectomy. We had to have a couple conversations with the Doctor since we don''t have kids, but it wasn''t as big of a deal as I thought it would be. We''ve never looked back and we''re still thrilled with our decision not to have kids. I think that it''s a myth that women that don''t have kids end up regretting their decision. Three women in my office are childfree. One woman has one kid that she regrets having. I have had more women tell me that children are not all they''re cracked up to be and they''re not worth the effort more than I''ve heard how wonderful they are. But that may be based on being an attorney and my location.

As an aside, I also don''t think that there is a connection between loving/not loving pets and kids. We have 3 dogs and 4 cats. I LOVE animals. But I can''t even be in the same room as kids, the same goes for my husband.
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Thank you so much for sharing your story, I nearly got watery-eyed at work; it''s such a relief to hear from someone who feels the way I do, because people''s reactions to hearing you don''t want children can range from patronizing disbelief to downright nasty. Why it''s someone else''s place to judge me for having children I don''t know, but that never stops people from doing it.
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It hasn''t been decided who will be sterilized, I would prefer it be me as it seems unfair to impose my wishes on his fertility, especially if he does get baby crazy in his later years, on the other hand, it is much more invasive and dangerous for me to have it done than him. I would rather it be me but he''s fairly set on it being him because it''s safer.

Sha, I thought our circumstances were similiar because my FF had a similar response of being nonchalant about having children, so I sympathize with you although my own stance on them is opposite of yours; but it seems we both have strong opinions that are taking the lead and possibly dragging our half-heartedly protesting men behind us.
 
I was just talking to a friend of mine who was in a situation similar. She never wanted kids, and is 100% sure she never will. She got married young, 22? And her husband said that was fine with him at the time. Anyway, 10 years later, and he is saying "I thought you meant no kids in the near future! I want kids!" She is still sure she doesn''t. She''s pretty angry, and is saying "Who was the idiot who let me get married at 22?!?" and it looks like they may end up getting divorced.

I''m very sad for her.
 
Galateia, Fed, I''m not going to get into the whole debate of people choosing to have children or not. I''m also not going to get into the debate of people who clearly let their children run wild, etc.

I was not a baby or kid person untiil I had my own children, up until only tolerated them. However once I did, it changed my perspective on children, because I realized that they are people, just like we are, with their own personalities, motivations, loves, fears, etc.

So next time you see a child and think ugh, remember, you once were a child too and people (hopefully) loved you, took care of you, tolerated you.

And remember that child may grow up to be your garbage collector, your accountant, your senator, the person who takes care of you when you are in a nursing home.
 
Date: 2/29/2008 9:54:40 AM
Author: part gypsy
Galateia, Fed, I''m not going to get into the whole debate of people choosing to have children or not. I''m also not going to get into the debate of people who clearly let their children run wild, etc.

I was not a baby or kid person untiil I had my own children, up until only tolerated them. However once I did, it changed my perspective on children, because I realized that they are people, just like we are, with their own personalities, motivations, loves, fears, etc.

So next time you see a child and think ugh, remember, you once were a child too and people (hopefully) loved you, took care of you, tolerated you.

And remember that child may grow up to be your garbage collector, your accountant, your senator, the person who takes care of you when you are in a nursing home.
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True. Good points.
 
Obviously, everyone is different, but to give some "hope" to the OP-

My dad did NOT want children. Ever. It was not a deal-breaker, and he was (sort of) willing to do it for my mom, but if it were up to him he would not have chosen to have children.

My mom says she told him she was ready, he wasn''t, she said too bad, and out I came.

My dad says having children is the absolute best thing he has ever done, and he can''t imagine not having kids. He had his own issues about why he didn''t want children based on his childhood as well (so it wasn''t like Galateia or others) but those fears completely went away when he had us.

My parents have 3 kids, are still married after 39 years, and they still giggle and flirt with each other like teenagers.

Oh, and my dad does NOT like animals. He tolerates the cats my mom has, but does not like them. However, my sister got a dog recently and it has since become more like my parent''s dog- and let me tell you, that dog is like their grandchild. I have heard my dad, who proclaims to hate dogs, baby-talk to this dog. So no real correlation b/w not liking animals and not having a paternal instinct.

That being said, of course no one should have kids if they really don''t want them.
 
Oh yeah, I have a happy and encouraging story like that too, actually. My step-dad never wanted kids. Couldn''t stand them. Probably doubted his ability to parent, too.

Then he fell in love with my mom... and she came along with us in tow! And another of his ''own'' (though he sees us all as his own now) came along. And he says what ChinaCat''s dad says. That nothing in his life has given him more happiness, satisfaction, and joy as having children and a family.

So, it can happen!
 
Date: 2/29/2008 9:54:40 AM
Author: part gypsy
Galateia, Fed, I'm not going to get into the whole debate of people choosing to have children or not. I'm also not going to get into the debate of people who clearly let their children run wild, etc.

I was not a baby or kid person untiil I had my own children, up until only tolerated them. However once I did, it changed my perspective on children, because I realized that they are people, just like we are, with their own personalities, motivations, loves, fears, etc.

So next time you see a child and think ugh, remember, you once were a child too and people (hopefully) loved you, took care of you, tolerated you.

And remember that child may grow up to be your garbage collector, your accountant, your senator, the person who takes care of you when you are in a nursing home.
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You stated that you were not going 'get into' the issue, but then you went ahead and stated the points of your side of the issue regardless, so why get into it yourself if you wanted to avoid the debate?
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And yes, I remember that I was a child once too and I apologize to my mother on a regular basis, and wonder how she managed. She counters with although she was not a "baby person" herself and disliked other people's children, she was undecided about having them until she found herself pregnant. She never had the extreme adversion to parenthood that I do, and that's a distinction that I want to draw your attention to. Not only do I dislike children, I am extremely adverse to being a parent as well. What astonishes me about people with your viewpoint is how eager they are to assure me that my qualities that would make me a terrible parent do not matter and that I should have them anyway, as though I am going to suddenly morph into a completely different person through the power of parenthood.

And lastly, people who trot out the tired out "do you want to be alone in a home when you are old?" argument drive me batty; since when is having children an insurance policy against being forgotten when you are old? How many seniors languish in loneliness in an old age home who do have children and grandchildren (i.e. how many people actually visit their grandparents more than once or twice a month, if that?) and yet parents love to smugly whip this point out every time.

So the next time I see a child and think ugh, I will remember how unsuited I am to being a parent and how I made my choices on my own terms.
 
I could not agree more with Galateia''s last post. I get tired of the "unique and special snowflake" argument that parents constantly make regarding children. Merely because I hate children parents feel that they must "convert" me. Why do parents feel so threatened by someone that hates kids and has no interest in being a parent? I have heard the "you were a child once too" argument. I have also been told who will take care of you when you are old? I have heard the "but my child is special and will be a senator, cure cancer, insert special achievement that won''t happen" argument. I have constantly been lectured about how wrong it is to not want kids, how it is not natural, and how disturbing it is that I detest kids.

In reality, the people that take care of me when I am old will be doing so because I pay them. My DH and I invest a large portion of our income for our retirement. We are able to do this BECAUSE we do not have children. So the additional money will have at retirement will fund our lifestyle and care. Merely because someone else chose to have a child that I ultimately pay to care for me has absolutely no bearing on that equation. I seriously doubt that anyone meets with their accountant and thinks "Gee, this is someone''s extra special child that was loved and cherished." Not likely.

I never said that children are not people. I have absolutely nothing against other''s choice to have children. All that I ask is that my choice not to have children be respected.
 
On a lighter note: my parents were pretty into the zero-population growth thing in the 60's - so much so that they were very adamant about removing all mention of children from their wedding ceremony. 10 years later, I was a much wanted and planned child. They finally figured out that the zero population thing was a bad idea because it was only catching on with intellectual types, and that wouldn't do much for the intellectual growth of the population. Silly hippies. ;)

Anyway, I've been really interested in reading about the conversations that people have had with their partners. It really is a conversation that needs to happen - and as DD mentioned, in a safe space. This thread actually made DH and I start talking about kids more, too (so thank you!) - I finally came clean that while I want children, the idea of two or three scares me, too. I'm an only child, and my mom took me everywhere - the opera, art museums, shopping, nice restaurants... I can easily imagine life toting one child around with me because that's how I was raised. Imagining trying to do grocery shopping with kids in multiple car seats... I don't know, something inside me goes crazy. While we're young, and awhile away from TTC, the simple act of deciding on "one baby at a time" with DH made me feel SO much better. I think it's important to be able to name exactly what it is about parenthood that is scary (like for me, being immobilized by children) and discuss those things(starting small) rather than the ominous idea of "being a parent."

ETA: While I understand how frustrating it must be to deal with societal pressure/responses when a couple has chosen not to have children, I really don't think this thread is the appropriate place to debate it, either. There have been other threads devoted to that topic, where you will find lots of PSers who are in the same boat.
 
My husband cannot wait to have children, and neither I can. He is going to be such a great dad. We''re both hoping to become parents soon!
 
Elmorton thanks for posting about that conversation with your husband. It''s inspiring me to have a similar one with FI. "One baby at a time". And see what he thinks.
 
I agree with Elmorton that this has been a really interesting thread to read. One of the things I find so appealing about PS is that there is such a wide range of women on here with such different experiences. Galateia, I was really touched by your reaction to hearing that fed has the same feelings about being childfree that you have. I've felt the same way when I have read posts from people who have shared feelings I've had that I thought were mine alone! I'm a firm believer that true equality and feminism means that women should be allowed to choose to live their lives however they want, and hearing your stories about how you have experienced prejudice and stigmatization because of your choices really riled me up. I have chosen a non-traditional career path for women, and have experienced stigmatization because of that in some circles, but your choice to remain childfree is certainly a more obvious challenge to traditional gender roles and it sounds like you have had to face the consequences of trying to stretch the boudaries of what many people think it means to be a "woman". I think that any time a woman challenges traditional norms she is really helping all women to be free to make more choices in life.

As an aside, I didn't interpret part gypsy's message as criticising your choice, but rather pointing out that hating a group of people (be they children, men, asian americans, or lawyers
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) seems like a strong statement. However, given your experiences with being judged in the past about this issue, I can totally see how you might have reacted differently to her comments than I did.

Elmorton, I'm glad that you had that conversation with your hubby, it sounds like it was a weight of your shoulders. (I'm an only child too BTW. I loved it, but at times I felt lonely as a child and I think if I'd had a larger family I may not have felt that way... or maybe I would have, hard to say). One of my best friends today announced that she is not going to have any more kids (she has one) unless she has a full-time nanny hired to look after the child from birth until the child is old enough for daycare so that she doesn't have to stay home with an infant again. She really hated being a stay at home mom, and is a much happier perso nand a better parent now that she is back to work and her child is in daycare. She just has more energy to be present and involved with her child when she isn't forced t ostay at home. She actially might choose to have only the one child, but that is a tough decision to make publicly, because it seems that anytime a woman states that she wants few kids, or no kids, or doesn't enjoy being at home with an infant, she is judged negatively.

Do men think about these issues at all?? Something tells me that they don't give it much thought...
 
Date: 2/29/2008 6:36:59 PM
Author: ChinaCat
Obviously, everyone is different, but to give some ''hope'' to the OP-


My dad did NOT want children. Ever. It was not a deal-breaker, and he was (sort of) willing to do it for my mom, but if it were up to him he would not have chosen to have children.


My mom says she told him she was ready, he wasn''t, she said too bad, and out I came.


My dad says having children is the absolute best thing he has ever done, and he can''t imagine not having kids. He had his own issues about why he didn''t want children based on his childhood as well (so it wasn''t like Galateia or others) but those fears completely went away when he had us.


My parents have 3 kids, are still married after 39 years, and they still giggle and flirt with each other like teenagers.


Oh, and my dad does NOT like animals. He tolerates the cats my mom has, but does not like them. However, my sister got a dog recently and it has since become more like my parent''s dog- and let me tell you, that dog is like their grandchild. I have heard my dad, who proclaims to hate dogs, baby-talk to this dog. So no real correlation b/w not liking animals and not having a paternal instinct.


That being said, of course no one should have kids if they really don''t want them.
Click to expand...

Awww...thank you for posting those stories, Chinacat and Indy!
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Chinacat...your dad sounds a LOT like my DH, so your story gives me some hope!! It''s great to know your parents have such a loving relationship too.

From what everyone has posted, the link between pets and children seems dubious....that''s a good thing. I think pets are so much like children though, so I really thought there might be a connection there. Ah well!
 
As far as the "who will take care of you when you''re old" thing... having kids can easily put you in the "sandwich generation" that my mom is dealing with. She''s 65, taking care of her mother who is 86, AND her daughter (my sister) who has very ill health and has moved back in at 41, along with HER daughter who is 17 and an extremely moody teenager. My mom is at the end of her rope most days, and struggling to take care of herself and her OWN health which is starting to fail.

I''m working on my retirement fund and will buy long term care insurance. Having a child is certainly not a guarantee of care when you''re old... not even of companionship. What happens if your kids move away, as I did? Do you then have to lay in a guilt trip that while you''re thrilled they are a Senator, they really need to come home and play scrabble with you because you''re old and they''re supposed to?

Of course, then hubby and I watch Idiocracy (fabulous movie) and realize that the premise is sadly coming true as the more educated you are, the less likely you are to have lots of children, or even any, while the less intelligent, less educated breed like rabbits, and continue to do so until that''s all we have left. But still, we can''t save the world by having kids. Especially considering the price of gas (and the pollution) to drive the SUV that you theoretically need to haul all those kids in their car seats to school.

tangent over.
 
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