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roberto

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 30, 2017
Messages
12
Hi, would appreciate the expert on giving feedback about this diamond which I shortlisted:

Measurement: 6.3-6.32 x 4.03
1carat
E colour
SI1
Cut grade: very good
Polish : excellent
Symmetry: very good
Fluorescence: none

Table 57%
Depth 63.9%
Crown angle 34
Pavilion angle 41.6
Cutle none

Clarity characteristic
Feather
Crystal
Cloud
Needle
Natural

Cost $7819

Thanks
 
I have not seen the diamond, so obviously I do not want to put you off from this if you have found "the one" and want to look at it in person. I am by no means a pro, but I may have been doing significant research for about a month now for a high grade diamond, so i have grained some knowledge:

-Consider dropping the color grade a bit and put more emphasis on the cut
-Go for Excellent cut and Excellent symmetry
-Maybe bump up to VS from SI, unless you know for sure what sort of inclusions you are dealing with with the SI
-The cut is deep, this diamond was probably cut to hit the 1ct mark. You may find better deals (with similar face up dimensions) in the 0.90-0.99 carat range

I think it really boils down to budget, but that is a higher grade color and a lower grade cut, and I think you will be happier dropping the color a bit and improving the cut/clarity, and extending your search to the 0.9-0.99 range if you are specifically looking for 1ct size
 
ditto the above. It's cut pretty deep, obviously cut to hit the 1ct mark. Keep looking. If you share your budget some of the experts here can help you find a nice stone!
 
Hi roberto,
Many people would plug the numbers into HCA nad see what the result is.
I agree that 63.9, as a depth% number unto itself, is deep.
But there's a lot more to this than just the numbers.
Personally, I love SI1 and SI2 diamonds- because I know how to grade, and I'm looking at the diamond.
But I'd never buy one sight unseen.
Are you looking at the stone in person, or online?
 
Rockdiamond said:
Hi roberto,
Many people would plug the numbers into HCA nad see what the result is.
I agree that 63.9, as a depth% number unto itself, is deep.
But there's a lot more to this than just the numbers.
Personally, I love SI1 and SI2 diamonds- because I know how to grade, and I'm looking at the diamond.
But I'd never buy one sight unseen.
Are you looking at the stone in person, or online?
Click to expand...
I agree that 63.9% in and of itself is not an issue, per se, for the right price and other compensations in the cut, but in the context of all the above numbers and the fact it is 1ct is highly suspicious it was cut to hit the 1ct mark. The HCA I think is 5- 6.

Looking at the links that tophat1 posted of similar priced diamonds (even a little over 1 ct), it is mostly the color rating that I think is driving his price and limiting his cut/clarity in this price range.

I think most people willing to dip into SI and "very good" cuts probably would not notice a problem dropping from E.
 
Hi gemelo
what I wrote was that 63.9 IS deep, and yes, most likely an issue which will cause the stone to loose diameter.
I did not look at other vendors stones which may be recommended by other PS members.
Trade members may not comment on other vendors stones, according to PS rules.

Roberto- on the color. Is there a reason you're going to E color?
I have seen clients who are bothered by the tint in a G- so clearly some buyers need to stick to colorless ( D-E-F)
But many other clients are not bothered by warmth in color and consequently get a much larger diamond for their money ( or spend less)
So why pick an E?
 
Rockdiamond said:
Hi gemelo
what I wrote was that 63.9 IS deep, and yes, most likely an issue which will cause the stone to loose diameter.
I did not look at other vendors stones which may be recommended by other PS members.
Trade members may not comment on other vendors stones, according to PS rules.

Roberto- on the color. Is there a reason you're going to E color?
I have seen clients who are bothered by the tint in a G- so clearly some buyers need to stick to colorless ( D-E-F)
But many other clients are not bothered by warmth in color and consequently get a much larger diamond for their money ( or spend less)
So why pick an E?
Click to expand...
Okay, thanks for the clarification. I am still getting use to figuring out who the vendors are here. A lot of stones seem to be shared between multiple vendors from some sort of database, but I know some vendors also have their own in house collection.
 
gamelo said:
Okay, thanks for the clarification. I am still getting use to figuring out who the vendors are here. A lot of stones seem to be shared between multiple vendors from some sort of database, but I know some vendors also have their own in house collection.
Click to expand...
There's a "trade" badge under my avatar.
You'll notice DancingFire is a "SuperIdealRock"
That means no stinkin' 60/60's for him!
 
Rockdiamond said:
There's a "trade" badge under my avatar.
You'll notice DancingFire is a "SuperIdealRock"
That means no stinkin' 60/60's for him!
Click to expand...
63.9%.This can't be a GIA VG cut stone...can it?:confused:
 
Apparently it can Mr SuperIdeal Rock:wavey:
 
Tks Gamelo. Will take your advice to drop the Colour n improve the cut n clarity. :)

Glad I posted here before I made the purchase.

Thanks.


gamelo said:
I have not seen the diamond, so obviously I do not want to put you off from this if you have found "the one" and want to look at it in person. I am by no means a pro, but I may have been doing significant research for about a month now for a high grade diamond, so i have grained some knowledge:

-Consider dropping the color grade a bit and put more emphasis on the cut
-Go for Excellent cut and Excellent symmetry
-Maybe bump up to VS from SI, unless you know for sure what sort of inclusions you are dealing with with the SI
-The cut is deep, this diamond was probably cut to hit the 1ct mark. You may find better deals (with similar face up dimensions) in the 0.90-0.99 carat range

I think it really boils down to budget, but that is a higher grade color and a lower grade cut, and I think you will be happier dropping the color a bit and improving the cut/clarity, and extending your search to the 0.9-0.99 range if you are specifically looking for 1ct size
Click to expand...
 
I am looking at the real stone.

Was used to compare with an F and G Colour with better clarity n at that point this diamond seems to shine the most. Haha.

The depth of the diamond I Guess as other pointed out is an issue as well. :)

Rockdiamond said:
Hi roberto,
Many people would plug the numbers into HCA nad see what the result is.
I agree that 63.9, as a depth% number unto itself, is deep.
But there's a lot more to this than just the numbers.
Personally, I love SI1 and SI2 diamonds- because I know how to grade, and I'm looking at the diamond.
But I'd never buy one sight unseen.
Are you looking at the stone in person, or online?
Click to expand...
 
Hi Rockdiamond,

Reason for choosing E was that at the point of shortlist, it was compared against diamond of Colour F n G with better clarity n it seems it was the best. Haha.



Rockdiamond said:
Hi gemelo
what I wrote was that 63.9 IS deep, and yes, most likely an issue which will cause the stone to loose diameter.
I did not look at other vendors stones which may be recommended by other PS members.
Trade members may not comment on other vendors stones, according to PS rules.

Roberto- on the color. Is there a reason you're going to E color?
I have seen clients who are bothered by the tint in a G- so clearly some buyers need to stick to colorless ( D-E-F)
But many other clients are not bothered by warmth in color and consequently get a much larger diamond for their money ( or spend less)
So why pick an E?
Click to expand...
 
Rockdiamond said:
Apparently it can Mr SuperIdeal Rock:wavey:
Click to expand...
WOW!! ..63.9% is still considered as a VG cut??.. GIA is allowing cutters to get away with murder!.
 
Just for the heck of it, please see if you can look at an H and a J.
My wife loves J-K color, so she gets bigger diamonds than if she loved D:)
 
Dancing Fire said:
WOW!! ..63.9% is still considered as a VG cut??.. GIA is allowing cutters to get away with murder!.
Click to expand...
DF- I think this places blame in the wrong spot.
Imagine rough diamonds are like real estate. It's a natural substance, not all plots will be lakefront property. But you need to use all of it efficeintly. The rough diamonds are sold in groups- sights. The major cutters have to buy in bulk.
Some pieces of rough can be worked to super ideal- but the cutter also needs to recover on stones that won't make super ideal economically.
We can see this looking at the virtual diamond db
G/SI1 1.00ct goes from $2900-$6k ( just guessing, but I bet I'm close)
So the truth is, the cutter needs both Super Ideal Guys- and "normal" buyers.
And from the standpoint of the buyer- that's what makes better dealers better.
The best sellers know how to do something to make sure their stones are the special ones.
The cutters are doing what they need to to survive.
Which is getting harder and harder.
 
IMO, it should be against the "diamond cutting rules" to cut a 63.9% depth MRB.
 
Hi guys,

Came across this through a recommendation:

https://www.bluenile.com/sg/build-your-own-ring/diamond-details/LD08697988

I saw some black spots in the video. Not sure if is the lighting ？ will this affect the look? But the eyeclean report was a Y.. so was puzzled why am I able to see the black spots in video.

1.2carat
G Colour
SI1
Triple excellent
None fluorescence
Table 57%
Depth 61.6%
Crown angle 33.5
Pavilion angle 41
Cutle none

Clarity characteristic:
Refer to link above

Any advice will be greatly appreciated especially on the black spot in the videos.

Thanks again
 
Crown and pavilion angles outside of preferred range. Don't like the big cloud on the plot and worried about the surface graininG

If you are sticking with Blue Nile, I recommend keeping to their signature ideal collection
 
0_72 D-VS1.jpg
Rockdiamond said:
Hi roberto,
Many people would plug the numbers into HCA nad see what the result is.
I agree that 63.9, as a depth% number unto itself, is deep.
But there's a lot more to this than just the numbers.
Personally, I love SI1 and SI2 diamonds- because I know how to grade, and I'm looking at the diamond.
But I'd never buy one sight unseen.
Are you looking at the stone in person, or online?
Click to expand...

Rock, my friend, I must take issue with your comment. Cut even close to properly, a 6.30 x 6.32 mm diameter diamond should have finished no more than a 0.9x carat which drops the price significantly. Such a stone is cut to this depth for one reason only, to make a 1.0x weight. This drives up the price per carat and since you are paying for more points at that higher price, such a diamonds costs AT LEAST 25% more than if it were cut to be at least pretty rather than a lifeless lump of crystallized carbon.

Yes, selecting a diamond is much more than mere numbers, the precision with which a diamond meets a specific set of numbers also means that the visual aspects of two diamonds with the same numbers can also vary. Still, some numbers are so far beyond the pale that there is no hope of a good looking diamond.

John Pollard recently studied listings on the B2B market of 918,370 diamonds as of June 10, 2017 and found that 56% if them were listed as GIA XXX and another 12% as GIA X for an astounding 68% of all the diamonds on the B2B marked that he studied that day were at least GIA X.

I get it that you like many flavors of diamonds, but talking about the clarity grade of diamond cut extremely deep to keep the carat weight to over one carat is like talking about how to improve the health of a patient who has already died. Such a diamond will look even smaller than it actually is.

61017-d40b30e5ed1fbc131f1d89175001d4ee.jpg


The stone shown on the right actually measures LARGER than the stone on the left. It's edges completely lack brilliance and thus appears smaller even though it is actually larger. Ironically, when I show this to clients under jewelry store lighting, the diamonds look nearly identical. Then when I invite them to hold their hand between the overhead lights and the stones, the true nature of the cutting defects on the "gem" on the right become incredibly obvious. What then, does it possibly matter if the clarity grade is IF or I1. The stone is already worthless if beauty is even a small part of the desired outcome of buying the gem.

Wink
 
Last edited:
Wink- you completely misread my post.
We, as trade members are not supposed to comment on another vendors diamond so I attempt to make "general" comments. Let me be clear: 63.9 is WAY deep fr a colorless diamond. My preferred 60/60 colorless would spread about 6.5mm.
As far as the rest- what does that have anything to do with my comment??
 
Tophat1 said:
Crown and pavilion angles outside of preferred range. Don't like the big cloud on the plot and worried about the surface graininG

If you are sticking with Blue Nile, I recommend keeping to their signature ideal collection
Click to expand...
Tks Tophat1

But from the video, I don't see much or the video is not accurate?
 
roberto said:
Tks Tophat1

But from the video, I don't see much or the video is not accurate?
Click to expand...

I don't see it either - in fact, I can't see any inclusions (but I am using a small phone screen to view so maybe that's why)

But, there's a reason this was graded as an SI1 and I would rather have a hidden crystal SI1 vs a hazy cloud

That being said, I think you can do better with cut even if this one had no inclusions, I would tell you to keep looking
 
About clarity- it's highly unlikely a GIA graded SI1 will have a cloud large enough to create a hazy diamond overall.
Sometimes what looks like a terrible on the GIA plot has no visual negatives and other times what looks like nothing in the plot is a spot that hits you in the face.
SI stones offer value but more risk to buy blind.
That's why I asked if you can see he stones.

Wink- I have a picture of a well cut 60/60 next to an ideal cut- both the same mm. The 60/60 looks larger.
 
Rockdiamond said:
Wink- you completely misread my post.
Click to expand...

Rockdiamond, while I had quoted your latest post to roberto, this is what I was specifically responding too.

Dancing Fire said:
WOW!! ..63.9% is still considered as a VG cut??.. GIA is allowing cutters to get away with murder!.
Click to expand...
Rockdiamond said:
DF- I think this places blame in the wrong spot.
Click to expand...

I still agree with DF. It’s very simple to me. GIA is extremely strict on color and clarity, but somehow the top cut-grades permit 1-carat diamonds that spread like 0.90ct and get quite dark in normal lighting. Did you know there are GIA VG combinations which would score AGS 9 in light performance?

That permissiveness opens the door for abuse. Every jeweler will teach consumers that the differences between D-E color and FL-VVS clarity are minute or invisible. But many do NOT teach consumers that the GIA cut grade rubric is wide and permissive. Moreover, it has opened the door for some sellers to present VG diamonds to uninformed consumers as having “The second highest cut grade” - like it has the same meaning as GIA’s second highest color or clarity grade. It does not. Thus my comment in support of DF.

The rest of my post contained further information on just how insanely permissive the EX and VG grades are. If you or anyone else is interested there is a Cut grading standards page on my website with the statistics. They are eye-opening.

Wink
 
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