How do I say no?

[kenny]

Okay here's a question...

If you are a parent of a 2 and 3 year old and you invited the childless adult next door neighbor couple over for dinner would, during the invitation, make a point to volunteer that your kids would be asleep/gone?

OR

Do you assume everyone loves children and their presence would not be a factor in whether your neighbors/friends would accept the invitation?

I would expect my children to be in bed if I invited childless adults over for a meal so I would probably offer that information when inviting the couple.

Thank you.
I think that is very considerate of you.

I wonder what percentage of parents agree with you, or even see this as important.
I also wonder what percentage think I'm a jerk for paying attention to whether their kids will be at the table.

 

[Maisie]

Okay here's a question...

If you are a parent of a 2 and 3 year old and you invited the childless adult next door neighbor couple over for dinner would, during the invitation, make a point to volunteer that your kids would be asleep/gone?

OR

Do you assume everyone loves children and their presence would not be a factor in whether your neighbors/friends would accept the invitation?

I would expect my children to be in bed if I invited childless adults over for a meal so I would probably offer that information when inviting the couple.

Thank you.
I think that is very considerate of you.

I wonder what percentage of parents agree with you, or even see this as important.
I also wonder what percentage think I'm a jerk for paying attention to whether their kids will be at the table.

I don't think you are a jerk. I think you are honest. Hey, there are times when I don't want to sit at the table with my own kids!

 

[iugurl]

Okay here's a question...

If you are a parent of a 2 and 3 year old and you invited the childless adult next door neighbor couple over for dinner would, during the invitation, make a point to volunteer that your kids would be asleep/gone?

OR

Do you assume everyone loves children and their presence would not be a factor in whether your neighbors/friends would accept the invitation?

Hmm. It really depends on the couple. If the couple is the type who feels badly when their kids misbehave and cause a disruption in other people's day, then yeah they will probably either arrange for them to be gone/asleep or at least let you know that the kids will also be there for dinner. If they are clueless and think that their kids wild, rowdy behavior is funny and cute, then I am sure they will think everyone else also thinks they are cute and would want to be around them.

 

[jaysonsmom]

Okay here's a question...

If you are a parent of a 2 and 3 year old and you invited the childless adult next door neighbor couple over for dinner would, during the invitation, make a point to volunteer that your kids would be asleep/gone?

OR

Do you assume everyone loves children and their presence would not be a factor in whether your neighbors/friends would accept the invitation?

I think a little honesty is okay. I don't assume everyone likes kids, and if a couple has been together a long time, and never mentions wanting to have kids, I assume they don't want kids, or want to be around them. In which case I'd get sitters, and hang out with them adult to adult. My brother and his wife are a prefect example, they always turned down dinner invites, so I decided to ask my bro the reason point blank. I admit i was hurt at first, when he told me that they were both OCD, and thought kids were dirty. Now that I know they feel that way I make sure my kids are clean and groomed, and do not go in for unwanted hugs when they come over and my bro and his wife make sure they are not wearing nice work clothes, they change into "play" clothes when they are over. Both sides made compromises to have a relationship with each other.

 

[kenny]

Okay here's a question...

If you are a parent of a 2 and 3 year old and you invited the childless adult next door neighbor couple over for dinner would, during the invitation, make a point to volunteer that your kids would be asleep/gone?

OR

Do you assume everyone loves children and their presence would not be a factor in whether your neighbors/friends would accept the invitation?

Hmm. It really depends on the couple. If the couple is the type who feels badly when their kids misbehave and cause a disruption in other people's day, then yeah they will probably either arrange for them to be gone/asleep or at least let you know that the kids will also be there for dinner. If they are clueless and think that their kids wild, rowdy behavior is funny and cute, then I am sure they will think everyone else also thinks they are cute and would want to be around them.

Good point.
I think many parents are biased/forgiving when it comes to their own kids.

 

[Lottie]

Okay here's a question...

If you are a parent of a 2 and 3 year old and you invited the childless adult next door neighbor couple over for dinner would, during the invitation, make a point to volunteer that your kids would be asleep/gone?

OR

Do you assume everyone loves children and their presence would not be a factor in whether your neighbors/friends would accept the invitation?

I would expect my children to be in bed if I invited childless adults over for a meal so I would probably offer that information when inviting the couple.

Thank you.
I think that is very considerate of you.

I wonder what percentage of parents agree with you, or even see this as important.
I also wonder what percentage think I'm a jerk for paying attention to whether their kids will be at the table.[/quote]

I don't think you are a jerk for not wanting the children at the table at all, but I do think it would be unnecessarily rude to tell the couple outright that you don't want them there. Whilst I accept that my children are not the best people to share a dinner party with, I still love them beyond all reason and I am sure that your neighbours feel the same way.

 

[Kaleigh]

When we lived in our old house, our neighbors were gay. ( NO am not bringing that into the mix here... My brother was gay, so if anyone gets it , it is me)...

When they asked us over they always said adults only. That never hurt my feelings... They actually really loved my kids And my kids have very fond memories of them.

I was so close to them that they requested I plan the funeral when he wasy dying.

I think this is harder, because they are doing the inviting and they have kids...

Maybe say which night?? Then they say a date, and say shoot, that doesn't work for us, but can you meet us at such and such restaurant, it will be adults only....

IDK....

 

[kenny]

Okay here's a question...

If you are a parent of a 2 and 3 year old and you invited the childless adult next door neighbor couple over for dinner would, during the invitation, make a point to volunteer that your kids would be asleep/gone?

OR

Do you assume everyone loves children and their presence would not be a factor in whether your neighbors/friends would accept the invitation?

I would expect my children to be in bed if I invited childless adults over for a meal so I would probably offer that information when inviting the couple.

Thank you.
I think that is very considerate of you.

I wonder what percentage of parents agree with you, or even see this as important.
I also wonder what percentage think I'm a jerk for paying attention to whether their kids will be at the table.[/quote]

I don't think you are a jerk for not wanting the children at the table at all, but I do think it would be unnecessarily rude to tell the couple outright that you don't want them there. Whilst I accept that my children are not the best people to share a dinner party with, I still love them beyond all reason and I am sure that your neighbours feel the same way.

I have no intention of being rude and I'm sure love your kids.

BTW, what does you loving your kids have to do with the thread topic?
Please don't pour emotional gasoline onto an imaginary fire.

 

[Lottie]

Kenny, to quote your original post,

How do I say no?
Do I just come out and tell them it's because of the kids ,and that we'd accept if they store shipped the kids off for the evening?

I was merely giving my perspective as a parent, not pouring emotional anything anywhere. My perspective, as a parent is that I understand your point of view but if you just came out and told me flat that you didn't want them there I would be offended.

 

[kenny]

Kenny, to quote your original post,

How do I say no?
Do I just come out and tell them it's because of the kids ,and that we'd accept if they store shipped the kids off for the evening?

I was merely giving my perspective as a parent, not pouring emotional anything anywhere. My perspective, as a parent is that I understand your point of view but if you just came out and told me flat that you didn't want them there I would be offended.

Thanks Lottie.
You are right, I asked the question.

 

[Lottie]

No worries Kenny, I still vote for the kids to be in bed.

 

[Jennifer W]

I'd probably (and possibly wrongly) assume that they would know my kid would be in bed. I mean, she goes to bed just before 7pm, but it's possible / probably that people without young children wouldn't know that. When I invite people for dinner, I usually say can you come 7.30 for 8, so that we can do bath and bed before you get here. It was really so they didn't turn up early and we'd have to amuse dinner guests while dealing with a wet, dripping toddler, but I guess it would be useful information to the guests, too.

 

[Jennifer W]

You might be.

Who cares if he doesn't want to be friends with the neighbors?

I'm surprised how many of you are pressuring him to do it for reasons other than he plain doesn't want to. The kids are brats, he'd rather be watching The Twilight Zone, whatever. What the heck does it matter?

You all know he treats his SO like a prince. Now he has to accept dinner invitations to be part of the community? I think he pays taxes to satisfy this requirement.

And who cares if he doesn't want to be around kids?

Really, so what.

Try being a gay male and living with the trope of bigotry that gay male=child molester and get back to me.

I'll walk 3 blocks out of my way to stay away from peoples kids and Frankenstein monster type allegations and witch hunts and I ain't apologizing to anyone.

Are you being serious?

Maisie, sadly, I think he probably is serious - we forget, living in the UK that things in the US can be very different, and I think there is a lot of anti-gay prejudice there that we just don't see here. I could be wrong, but I get a feeling things are a little more fraught there.

Imdanny, I am really, really sorry to hear that you feel this way - I wouldn't apologise either, in your shoes. I can only wish and hope that this will change and sooner rather than later.

 

[Imdanny]

I apologize for being harsh, Maise.

You are so lucky to live in a place with social solidarity, having laws to protect you from having to work for an entire year for one week off (I can see how not having time affects one's quality of life), and so on. 1/4 of my ancestors immigrated from Scotland. I guess it seemed like a good idea at the time but I have to wonder. I love my country and so much about it makes me proud (the labor and civil rights movements, our musical traditions, our freedom of religion and conscience) but there is a brutal reactionary political vein in our nation. Thank you for the kind words, Jennifer. Hugs.

 

[MissStepcut]

A gay male friend of mine who coaches high school athletics is under investigation right now -- and may well lose his job -- because a child was overheard making a "joke" about the coach molesting him (after hearing about the Penn State scandal apparently). The child admitted that it was a joke and that there's no truth to it, but the damage to his reputation is done.

I would never encourage a male friend or relative of mine to put themselves in a position where they're often alone with children.

 

[Kaleigh]

A gay male friend of mine who coaches high school athletics is under investigation right now -- and may well lose his job -- because a child was overheard making a "joke" about the coach molesting him (after hearing about the Penn State scandal apparently). The child admitted that it was a joke and that there's no truth to it, but the damage to his reputation is done.

I would never encourage a male friend or relative of mine to put themselves in a position where they're often alone with children.

How did this go from dinner to a male being along with a child. And FYI Sandusky is a pedofile....

I need to take a step back before I implode!!!!

I

 

[VRBeauty]

Back to the subject of the thread -

Kenny, would it be possible for you to accept one, single invitation and see how it goes? You've indicated that the parents are cool, presumably you wouldn't mind spending time with them. If the kids turn out to be unruly or make you uncomfortable in any way, then you have some basis for turning down future invitations to their home. The parents and/or kids might surprise you. You also get a chance to get to know the parents a bit better and to see whether you might like to socialize with them under other circumstances... i.e. for a dinner out, adults only.

If the prospect of even one evening near the children causes you discomfort, I'd suggest you just tell them that you're really not comfortable around children (children GENERALLY, not theirs specifically) and suggest an adults only dinner at a restaurant instead.

 

[luv2sparkle]

I would just be honest and say that you would enjoy taking a meal with them but you just don't feel that comfortable about kids. They are not your thing. Let your SO go and have the family dinner if he wants to.

We had some nieces who were just awful. We had holidays with them for many years until I just got fed up and said no more. I am tolerant about child like behavior, but not spoiled brat or parents are afraid to discipline behavior.

 

[packrat]

I think to some extent the way kids act outside w/their family, even tho neighbors might be outside at their own house, is different than the kids would act if "company" came over..company being, not family or friends who are over all the time. Like when I would visit a friends house by george I was on my best behavior, tho I wasn't always that way at my own house. If we had people over other than family/close family friends, we were on our best behavior, whereas if say my aunt/uncle and cousins that we saw all the time came over, we'd be tearing thru the house and running up and down the stairs.

That might be the case here, you never know.

 

[jstarfireb]

I feel for you! I don't like being around bratty, spoiled, wild kids! I don't understand how that makes you the butthead? Why do people need to think bad behavior is acceptable? If YOU recognize the bad behavior and find it annoying YOU are the one in the wrong? OK...

My parents would have never let me act like that. My grandparents sure as heck wouldn't have allowed their kids to act like that. Unfortunately, it seems as though everywhere I go, I see screaming kids. I really doubt in my parent's and grandparent's day so many people allowed their kids to act like that.

This. Times a million!

The suggestion of an adults-only night out is a good one, but it's a hard subject to broach. If you suggest it, they're going to know you don't want to socialize with their kids and will be offended. I agree with you 100%, kenny, but I don't know how you should put it to them. Just wanted to offer some solidarity as another adult who doesn't tolerate poorly behaved children.

 

[Porridge]

A gay male friend of mine who coaches high school athletics is under investigation right now -- and may well lose his job -- because a child was overheard making a "joke" about the coach molesting him (after hearing about the Penn State scandal apparently). The child admitted that it was a joke and that there's no truth to it, but the damage to his reputation is done.

I would never encourage a male friend or relative of mine to put themselves in a position where they're often alone with children.

OK, that's a terrible situation and how awful for your friend, but I don't see how it has any relevance to this thread? Certainly an interesting topic for discussion though, and I can see where many adults would have to be exceptionally careful for fear of having their lives ruined over something completely innocent. Is your point that it may be wise for Kenny to avoid this dinner for other reasons than not liking being around badly behaved-children at the dinner table?

 

[Imdanny]

No, I'm the one who brought that up and indeed it has nothing to do with my advice to Kenny.

I just wanted to add my thoughts about this while we were all talking about what it might mean that some people don't like to be around children for whatever reason. I was just trying to say that in general false allegations can be a concern and that I personally avoid being in any situation in which this could become an issue.

My point was that people should be free to not want to be around children if they don't like to be and shouldn't necessarily be judged to be anti-social. So it wasn't off-topic; it was simply part of a tangent the thread took. I don't believe that anyone here has nor would anyone presume to give anyone advice about this. No one has suggested that Kenny should avoid his neighbors, only that he should be free to make a choice about wanting to be around children or not without being judged.

It's just a pet peeve of mine. I don't believe that anyone should be judged if they happen not to want to have children or be around them.

 

[Maisie]

I apologize for being harsh, Maise. quote]

Thank you but no need to apologise. I can see this is something that bothers you a lot.

 

[Cehrabehra]

It's you kenny. I'm sure you're not alone, but by and large it's you. I think most people are far more tolerant of kids - or like your so, ENJOY children. Of course I had people over when my kids were small. It's just not even a thought in most people's heads. Unless they don't like children - and you have been very clear that you don't. They're gross and they're loud and they're a PITA but they're future adults and so *somebody* has to show them how its done even if they don't get it right away. That someone doesn't have to be you. Maybe you should just tell your neighbors the truth so they won't keep asking.

 

[Porridge]

Ah, I see Imdanny. Definitely a very serious issue - lives can be completely destroyed from one little false allegation. I've seen it happen (the allegation in this case was completely false. This was admitted later, but it was too late, the damage had been done). People just can't be too careful, and even then...

 

[Sky56]

kenny, what I would do in your situation:
I would not attend that dinner, ever.
When invited, I would say,"I'm busy. Sorry, I cannot make it."
Then repeat the same phrase when invited again. Make no mention of the children, or give excuses.
I feel for you. I wouldn't be able to handle the situation well, it would be like chewing glass. So, I always say no to things I feel uncomfortable about. Loud, screaming small children are one of those things.

 

[KimberlyH]

Prior to our Halloween party our last dinner guest was a single male, who happens to be gay, and our toddler daughter ate dinner with us, played for a bit and was put to bed by 7:30. Then we sat around chatting for another few hours. I didn't even think twice about it, but I know he loves kids and enjoys our daughter, even though she cries when he gets too close to her.

My husband has a friend that likes our daughter but is uncomfortable around her. Historically I haven't been too involved in their friendship, they tend to meet for lunch as opposed to use getting together with her and her spouse. She's invited all of us to a few things, but the timing isn't ever good (a one year old at a Fourth of July party at night would be a disaster). I wouldn't put our daughter to bed if she were coming for dinner. But I would put our girl to bed at hr normal bedtime so the adults could spend some time alone.

I guess in my mind we're a family and if you come to our home to dine you do so with all of us in most circumstances. But I wouldn't be upset if someone requested we get a sitter to go out for dinner or something. In fact, I'd welcome it.

 

[KimberlyH]

Prior to our Halloween party our last dinner guest was a single male, who happens to be gay, and our toddler daughter ate dinner with us, played for a bit and was put to bed by 7:30. Then we sat around chatting for another few hours. I didn't even think twice about it, but I know he loves kids and enjoys our daughter, even though she cries when he gets too close to her.

My husband has a friend that likes our daughter but is uncomfortable around her. Historically I haven't been too involved in their friendship, they tend to meet for lunch as opposed to use getting together with her and her spouse. She's invited all of us to a few things, but the timing isn't ever good (a one year old at a Fourth of July party at night would be a disaster). I wouldn't put our daughter to bed if she were coming for dinner. But I would put our girl to bed at hr normal bedtime so the adults could spend some time alone.

I guess in my mind we're a family and if you come to our home to dine you do so with all of us in most circumstances. But I wouldn't be upset if someone requested we get a sitter to go out for dinner or something. In fact, I'd welcome it.

 

[Amys Bling]

Well why don't you be the one to suggest it next, and say, "there's this restaurant that SO and I have been dying to try, but it's definitely not child-friendly. If you are ever feeling in the mood to get a break and bring in a babysitter, we'd love to try it out with you guys!" Might resolve some of the tension and make it clear that you don't have anything against socializing with the neighbor, even if they never get around to taking you up on it.

I love this idea a lot.

 

[Imdanny]

Some people get offended when they feel that their children are being criticized.

I still think it would be a bad idea to say anything about one's personal feelings about anyone's kids or about not liking to be around kids to kids' parents.