How come lower colors are accepted in USA, but not i EU

[LaSuecia]

I'm wondering how come the loer colors, from I and down, are totally accepted in the Usa but in europe, they will absolutely not sell you a ring under H! Or they might,if you beg really really hard.
They say they are ugly, and look dirty and they don't deal with lower colors.
They couldnt even give me a second opinion on the stone i bought because the color was " solow" they couldnt compare it to others and couldnt put a price on it. It's redicilous!! Isn't it? Or are they right.
These are several well respected and reputated vendors, not crappy mall vendors, who accually dont go below H either, but have far worse cuts and performers, where I live anyway.

I hve found one place that will sell me a J color. Because Im on a budget I need a lower color to get the size I want, and from pictures here, I see real beauties that are J and even lower! And I would never have guessed they were so low in color if I didnt know.
Are those rocks just lucky coincidences, like they were graded too low, or is it just that, that the J color accually is'nt as yellow and dirty ugly as they all try to tell me.


I am really new to tjis diamond stuff as you probably notice, and the more I think I ve learned, the more I relaize, I still know nothing at all!

Am I beeing silly to think they might be right, or should I stick to my gut feeling, and keep the J if the cut and performance pleases me.

Also, can someone please show me a well cut prformer from james allen, a J color 0.5-0.9 ct, an excellent cut gia preferrably. Can be from other site as well, as long as theres a picture so I can see how its supposed to look when its a good diamond, but kot a hearts and arrows. Cant afford those Hearts and arrows ones, and im not sure I need one that well cut, im just gonna wear it on my finger in regular light, so im thinking its a bit over kill to go That far, as its not that big, and im not collecting or thinking of it as a major investment for the future.

Sorry bout all the babbling and confusion and all the threads i keep posting brw, bare with me

 

[proto]

Colour sensitivity is subjective.

Retail jewellers in the uk outside of super high end boutiques know very little about diamonds.

Most retail jewellers in uk stock down to H, but some of these were non GIA H.

Some people prefer less colourless diamonds as higher colours look too white or fake to them. I expect to see these lower colours in antique settings or styles although feel free to pick and mix as you like. Its your ring.

Lower colours in UK not stocked because they arent popular and also they would rather sell you a more expensive diamond and not give you a choice.

There are regional differences between US and UK from my perspective. US stone sizes are huge compared to the UK. Also pricescope can warp your sense of normal if you stay long enough. Not everyone is buying superideal diamonds.

Having done some research any diamond you choose is likely to blow the average consumers diamond away because you will have picked one with good light performance. Normal diamonds in retail shops have crap dimensions and sell for huge markups.

 

[Rhea]

I don't think that's a US vs EU thing, I think it's a brick and mortar store vs online thing.

I was in Jared in Atlanta last time I went to the US and they couldn't show me anything under an I colour because it's too yellow and they just don't carry anything that noticeably yellow. I'm practice shopping for an earring upgrade to see tolerances so took advantage of Jared's large selection and popped in. I got the whole talk about how colour is important while they were showing me SI2s and I1s which were in house graded and I could clearly see inclusions in. They weren't cut well either. A 2 carat diamond is not supposed to be 7.6 mm in a round brilliant. I wanted higher clarity and lower colour and the sales person just couldn't seem to get her head around it. According to her, if I wanted less expensive, I could get a smaller diamond, still I clarity, still I colour...that's what she wanted to sell me.

It's too bad that they are doing this. I remember being so shocked and upset when years ago I had a diamond appraised before selling it and it came back as K colour. I could see it wasn't blindingly white but it wasn't yellow. I had purchased it as G for a project and then didn't use it. The K colour grade made it so hard to sell, I took a loss on it and had to field a large amount of questions about my "yellow" diamond. It's easy to understand why most people think that after my eye opening trip to Jared.

 

[Wieke]

I think there are several dimensions to it, one being cultural (like in Asia, also in Europe the culture is to get less, but more (what people consider) quality), which I think the sales people try to use as much as possible for their advantage. They make the diamond purchase something very rare and precious, and try to make their profit as high as possible on the transaction. In US, people tend to upgrade their diamonds, wear right-hand-rings, switch and mix and wish for a lot of bling for the money invested... therefore they look for other qualities. Nothing bad with any of these, you just need to know what you want.

I am also from Europe and I am definitely going to combine the best of the two I already have some high color (for me this is F, I even have a very small crispy E pendant )) diamonds, and I like how icy and white they are. Now I am thinking about a warm colored stone for my RHR, as big as I can afford. I will definitely go for search on the US market and choose a vendor with excellent upgrade and buy back policies (so far I am thinking about GOG) so should I want to sell or upgrade it later I will be able to, without having to regret my purchase and worry about not being able to sell my low color diamond in the EU. Also vendors like GOG (I use it as an example since this is the one I know and am considering) provide videos, ASETs, all other images and tools to help with an online purchase. That is for me important, since I cannot judge in person.

In my opinion the question is whether you look for a diamond for a surprise engagement ring or for other piece of jewelry. If for engagement ring I would stick to H (or I) if I want a surprise, or talk to my future wife about her preferences. If she wants a bigger diamond and is willing to sacrifice color its great, but I would not surprise her with one.

Another question is the cut - ideal cut and light performance can hide some of the color. You say you cannot afford H&A - well maybe you can - go for a J but in H&A? Another dimension is what metal you want to use - yellow or rose gold again can mask some of the color. And the style of the cut - vintage stones like antique cushions for example are a great option, if someone likes it.

So I think first try to put together what you really want, what your budget is, whether you feel comfortable buying online ... and then ask people here to guide you . If not US, then how about travelling down to Belgium Antwerp and trying to set up meeting with some vendors with good reputation there as a compromise?

 

[tyty333]

Here is a well cut J stone...You didnt give a budget (or did I miss it) so I picked in between .5 and .9. Went with a VS2 since
you are in Europe. You could drop down to an eye-clean SI1 but you would have to double check with JA to make sure it is
eye-clean.

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/0.70-carat-j-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-441327

Here is an AGS000 stone with ideal light return (for example)...
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/0.52-carat-j-color-vs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-477967

 

[dk168]

There are plenty of warmer colour diamonds on offer from UK high street jewellers!

Here are some examples, and I can find plenty more:

http://www.hsamuel.co.uk/webstore/d/4597850/the+forever+diamond++-+18ct+gold+ring/

http://www.ernestjones.co.uk/websto...low+&+white+gold+0.66ct+i-si2+ring/?cmCat=OVM

DK

 

[LaSuecia]

Colour sensitivity is subjective.

Retail jewellers in the uk outside of super high end boutiques know very little about diamonds.

Most retail jewellers in uk stock down to H, but some of these were non GIA H.

Some people prefer less colourless diamonds as higher colours look too white or fake to them. I expect to see these lower colours in antique settings or styles although feel free to pick and mix as you like. Its your ring.

Lower colours in UK not stocked because they arent popular and also they would rather sell you a more expensive diamond and not give you a choice.

There are regional differences between US and UK from my perspective. US stone sizes are huge compared to the UK. Also pricescope can warp your sense of normal if you stay long enough. Not everyone is buying superideal diamonds.

Having done some research any diamond you choose is likely to blow the average consumers diamond away because you will have picked one with good light performance. Normal diamonds in retail shops have crap dimensions and sell for huge markups.

Agree with everything. I experience exact same thing in sweden where im from.
They look at me like Im crazy for wanting a j, still they know nothing at all about diamonds, just that anything below H is crap. (Which ofcourse it isnt)
I am absolutely certain my 0.6ct J will out bling any of their crappy H colors thry stock up on.
Wow i sound so agressive, i dont intend to, sorry!

 

[proto]

One thing i would ask is are you buying for yourself or for someone else. If for someone else are you confident they are fine with J? Sorry if have been asked before but i cant remember.

Some people would see the colour and prefer it had less.
some people would see the colour and not care.
some people would not see the colour.
some people would see the colour as an advantage.

Generally if buying for someone else H is the safe recommended lowest with I as a borderline.

 

[diannec18]

I'm in the US and I've found that any brick and mortor store I've gone into has told me that I shouldn't go below a J in color. Perhaps there's just not as much money to be made on lower color stones for these stores, and that's why they don't stock them? Idk, one of the stores that told me I should stay away from Js (and I's if Im remembering correctly) then proceeded to show me a stone that had an inclusion so big that literally 1/3 of the stone was a cloudy mess.

I'm in the process of ordering two stones from JA, a J and a G, so it will be my first in person look at a J. Most of the pics online I've seen have me pretty optimistic however.

JA certainly endorses Js, I had an I and a G stone picked out, and they are the ones that pointed me in the direction of the J im considering. So we'll see what happens

 

[baby monster]

Are the retailers in Sweden showing you GIA certified diamonds? If not, then I can understand why they would say anything below H isn't acceptable. EGL certified H can be J or K or L when graded by GIA. Those diamonds can have a noticeable tint that some people like but others don't.

 

[LaSuecia]

I don't think that's a US vs EU thing, I think it's a brick and mortar store vs online thing.

I was in Jared in Atlanta last time I went to the US and they couldn't show me anything under an I colour because it's too yellow and they just don't carry anything that noticeably yellow. I'm practice shopping for an earring upgrade to see tolerances so took advantage of Jared's large selection and popped in. I got the whole talk about how colour is important while they were showing me SI2s and I1s which were in house graded and I could clearly see inclusions in. They weren't cut well either. A 2 carat diamond is not supposed to be 7.6 mm in a round brilliant. I wanted higher clarity and lower colour and the sales person just couldn't seem to get her head around it. According to her, if I wanted less expensive, I could get a smaller diamond, still I clarity, still I colour...that's what she wanted to sell me.

It's too bad that they are doing this. I remember being so shocked and upset when years ago I had a diamond appraised before selling it and it came back as K colour. I could see it wasn't blindingly white but it wasn't yellow. I had purchased it as G for a project and then didn't use it. The K colour grade made it so hard to sell, I took a loss on it and had to field a large amount of questions about my "yellow" diamond. It's easy to understand why most people think that after my eye opening trip to Jared.

Same thing happened to me when I asked a shop for an I-j Vs. She looked at me as if I had no idea about anything,and tried to sell me a H Si2, when I asked about the proportions she couldnt tell me anything but that it was an excellent cut, when I asked for a report she said she didnt have any report, because all stones in the shop are CZ, but to trust her that its an excellent cut, and the report would come with the finished ring. ( this is standard in sweden, all shops keep CZ stones, in case they get robbed) so I couldnt pick the stone at all more than Color,cut and clairty, but I know to much to accept that, without at least seeing a report, and having the oppertunity to rerturn the stone after I see it, if Im not happy with it.

Ive thought about the grading thing too, i wont be able to sell my J, and there are no upgrade programs here, because, people choose a stone and are happy, perhaps, naive, but still, size isnt a issue, so most dont care. Standard here is between 0.10-0.5. You rarely see much bigger. Of course 99%ave no clue what they have more than color and clarity, sometimes cut, but hey, maybe its a good thing, they dont need to obsess about it like I do.
Sometimes I wish I never started reading into diamonds....

 

[LaSuecia]

One thing i would ask is are you buying for yourself or for someone else. If for someone else are you confident they are fine with J? Sorry if have been asked before but i cant remember.

Some people would see the colour and prefer it had less.
some people would see the colour and not care.
some people would not see the colour.
some people would see the colour as an advantage.

Generally if buying for someone else H is the safe recommended lowest with I as a borderline.

It is for me, and Before PS I was into a H at least, but after seeing some really pretty stones on this site, and james allen, that are J and lower, I am almost certain a J color would be just fine for me. Pllus Im wearing it in a yellow gold band with no other stones, so I don't think the yellowness or warmth will come through too much for me to be bothered.

 

[proto]

if you want a J colour stone and are having trouble locating one, ask your jeweller if he can obtain some on consignment on your behalf since I know you dont want to go the online path.

find some stones online that you like and provide the GIA numbers to your jeweller to see if they have access to them.

most stones online are virtual inventory so they arent in stock with any specific vendor.

when I was exploring my options of handcrafting my setting and ordering my diamond through my jeweller, he had access to a large n number of stones from Antwerp. I didnt like his suggested stones or his prices, which is why I went online, but your jeweller should have access to J stones, even if they dont hold any in their actual inventory.

You may have to pay for shipping back and forth if you dont end up buying the one you request to see though.

Hope this helps finding a diamond in Sweden.

 

[LaSuecia]

I'm in the US and I've found that any brick and mortor store I've gone into has told me that I shouldn't go below a J in color. Perhaps there's just not as much money to be made on lower color stones for these stores, and that's why they don't stock them? Idk, one of the stores that told me I should stay away from Js (and I's if Im remembering correctly) then proceeded to show me a stone that had an inclusion so big that literally 1/3 of the stone was a cloudy mess.

I'm in the process of ordering two stones from JA, a J and a G, so it will be my first in person look at a J. Most of the pics online I've seen have me pretty optimistic however.

JA certainly endorses Js, I had an I and a G stone picked out, and they are the ones that pointed me in the direction of the J im considering. So we'll see what happens

Still ,they will go below an H not here, like ever.

Please update how your J stone turned out.

I also have my hopes up for my ordered J because of james allen, if it wasnt for the txes and custom fees Id order from there too.
Most J's from james allen look really good so fingers crossed. Still if it all blows up, i have my mind set on a g stone and an E stone that both seem to have good properties, but cost more, so if I pay more for the stone, Ill have to take money away from something else of my wedding. ( in sweden the engagment rings are smooth stone-less, and wedding rings are with diamonds, opposite to usa)

 

[LaSuecia]

I think there are several dimensions to it, one being cultural (like in Asia, also in Europe the culture is to get less, but more (what people consider) quality), which I think the sales people try to use as much as possible for their advantage. They make the diamond purchase something very rare and precious, and try to make their profit as high as possible on the transaction. In US, people tend to upgrade their diamonds, wear right-hand-rings, switch and mix and wish for a lot of bling for the money invested... therefore they look for other qualities. Nothing bad with any of these, you just need to know what you want.

I am also from Europe and I am definitely going to combine the best of the two I already have some high color (for me this is F, I even have a very small crispy E pendant )) diamonds, and I like how icy and white they are. Now I am thinking about a warm colored stone for my RHR, as big as I can afford. I will definitely go for search on the US market and choose a vendor with excellent upgrade and buy back policies (so far I am thinking about GOG) so should I want to sell or upgrade it later I will be able to, without having to regret my purchase and worry about not being able to sell my low color diamond in the EU. Also vendors like GOG (I use it as an example since this is the one I know and am considering) provide videos, ASETs, all other images and tools to help with an online purchase. That is for me important, since I cannot judge in person.

In my opinion the question is whether you look for a diamond for a surprise engagement ring or for other piece of jewelry. If for engagement ring I would stick to H (or I) if I want a surprise, or talk to my future wife about her preferences. If she wants a bigger diamond and is willing to sacrifice color its great, but I would not surprise her with one.

Another question is the cut - ideal cut and light performance can hide some of the color. You say you cannot afford H&A - well maybe you can - go for a J but in H&A? Another dimension is what metal you want to use - yellow or rose gold again can mask some of the color. And the style of the cut - vintage stones like antique cushions for example are a great option, if someone likes it.

So I think first try to put together what you really want, what your budget is, whether you feel comfortable buying online ... and then ask people here to guide you . If not US, then how about travelling down to Belgium Antwerp and trying to set up meeting with some vendors with good reputation there as a compromise?

Thanks fort the input, good thoughts.
It is for me, so i am trying to find the best of both worlds with what I can afford. So basically, the color can be lower, but the cut has to be really really good. Inclusions, I'd prefer Vs and up.
I have high hopes for the rock I bough, it seems good on paper, and if it turns out nothing like I thought, I can return it free of charge, so I feel safe.
I wish I could go to Antwerp, I know that in europe IGI Antwerp stones are respected. Also, the guy who is maki g my ring, who is not adiamond dealer but works with diamonds, told me that the good IGI stones stay in europe, the bad ones go tothe USA, because people want bigger rocks there and are willing to sacrifise quality for it. This is nothing I know is true or can confirm, just his words, but Still just an interesting fact.
Not offending anyone, sorry if I did.

 

[LaSuecia]

if you want a J colour stone and are having trouble locating one, ask your jeweller if he can obtain some on consignment on your behalf since I know you dont want to go the online path.

find some stones online that you like and provide the GIA numbers to your jeweller to see if they have access to them.

most stones online are virtual inventory so they arent in stock with any specific vendor.

when I was exploring my options of handcrafting my setting and ordering my diamond through my jeweller, he had access to a large n number of stones from Antwerp. I didnt like his suggested stones or his prices, which is why I went online, but your jeweller should have access to J stones, even if they dont hold any in their actual inventory.

You may have to pay for shipping back and forth if you dont end up buying the one you request to see though.

Hope this helps finding a diamond in Sweden.

That was a good idea!
I will do that. i think it's possible because the store I'm using dont stock but order upon buying. Thanks!

 

[Wieke]

If eyeclean do not worry even about SI1 - I own some and it never bothered me on paper and I have never seen the inclusions myself in them...

What I do not understand - are you now, or not up to online shopping? Since you were asking about James Allen. Or you simply wanted to see examples?

 

[LaSuecia]

If eyeclean do not worry even about SI1 - I own some and it never bothered me on paper and I have never seen the inclusions myself in them...

What I do not understand - are you now, or not up to online shopping? Since you were asking about James Allen. Or you simply wanted to see examples?

IM not worried about SI stones, if eye clean, but the one I bought is a Vs, by coincidence mostly.
I am not against online shopping, only problem is that I can only online shopfrom swedish sites. The customs and tax fees are too high to make it worth buying a diamond from abroad.
The diamond Ive bought has a two week return policy, so if all fails and I cant find another diamond from sweden, james allen is my next pick, because of their excellent images, but then Id have to put it off for a few months to save up a little more money for all the fees.
But for now, james allen is my teacher, I look at the diamonds, and read their reports and try to make sense of it all.

 

[proto]

Eye clean means looking at the table at a distance of approx 30cm in natural light by someone with 20 20 vision. If you want eyeclean any distance any angle you need to specify that with the gemologist.

Many Si1 Si2 stones i saw in person were not clean enough for me because i dont want to see anything from any angle ever. So to avoid disappointment make sure to ask the right questions before pulling the trigger and ordering in any stones.

Best of luck

 

[LaSuecia]

I ve been looking for some diamonds in a higher color, in case I find the J one I ordered to yellow.
Can anyone tell me which one of these seems to be the best one? Im thinking the G....agree or disagree?

E color, SI2, 0.6 ct price: 2273$ , 0.8 HCA

Report: http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?rep...ename=GIA/Dispatcher&c=Page&cid=1355954554547

G color, SI2, 0,6ct price: 2013$ 1.1 HCA

http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?rep...ename=GIA/Dispatcher&c=Page&cid=1355954554547

I color, Vs2, 0.52ct price 1999$ 0.8 HCA

Report http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?rep...ename=GIA/Dispatcher&c=Page&cid=1355954554547

 

[LaSuecia]

Eye clean means looking at the table at a distance of approx 30cm in natural light by someone with 20 20 vision. If you want eyeclean any distance any angle you need to specify that with the gemologist.

Many Si1 Si2 stones i saw in person were not clean enough for me because i dont want to see anything from any angle ever. So to avoid disappointment make sure to ask the right questions before pulling the trigger and ordering in any stones.

Best of luck

No, im not bothered by inclusions as long as theyre not visible just looking straight down at it, i cant really tell how much inclusions im fine with, as ive only seen the diamonds on james allen,some with SI2seem just fine, and others I would be very bothered with.
and the tiny ones i have at home set in rings and so on that are about 0.04-0.05.
Like I said earlier, they only keep CZ in the stores here. I have a freins who has a 0.3 D IF, and ofcourse i couldnt see anything there so james allen is all I have right now haha, unfortunately, for the sake of seeing inclusions at realistic distance and light, looking at diamonds online isnt the best for me.

 

[diannec18]

I'm in the US and I've found that any brick and mortor store I've gone into has told me that I shouldn't go below a J in color. Perhaps there's just not as much money to be made on lower color stones for these stores, and that's why they don't stock them? Idk, one of the stores that told me I should stay away from Js (and I's if Im remembering correctly) then proceeded to show me a stone that had an inclusion so big that literally 1/3 of the stone was a cloudy mess.

I'm in the process of ordering two stones from JA, a J and a G, so it will be my first in person look at a J. Most of the pics online I've seen have me pretty optimistic however.

JA certainly endorses Js, I had an I and a G stone picked out, and they are the ones that pointed me in the direction of the J im considering. So we'll see what happens

Still ,they will go below an H not here, like ever.

Please update how your J stone turned out.

I also have my hopes up for my ordered J because of james allen, if it wasnt for the txes and custom fees Id order from there too.
Most J's from james allen look really good so fingers crossed. Still if it all blows up, i have my mind set on a g stone and an E stone that both seem to have good properties, but cost more, so if I pay more for the stone, Ill have to take money away from something else of my wedding. ( in sweden the engagment rings are smooth stone-less, and wedding rings are with diamonds, opposite to usa)

Got my stones in today, posted a bunch of pics of them in this thread [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/stones-are-here-color-grades.212284/#post-3861071#p3861071']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/stones-are-here-color-grades.212284/#post-3861071#p3861071[/URL]