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Home reno types - around how much would it cost to clean up a fixer?

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Burk

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Tgal~Sounds exciting! Please keep us posted on what you think when you visit the house! We have renovated our entire house that we currently live in and depending on how much work you do yourself and how high end the finishes are I think $30,000 would be really pushing it....but not out of the questions.
 

TravelingGal

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Thanks again gals...I''ll have more comments in a bit, but will be going to see the house at noon.

One thing I saw that I think is a no no is that the driveway majorly slopes DOWN to the garage. I know it doesn''t rain here a lot in california, but I''m thinking that is NOT a good thing. And it can''t be changed.

Thoughts?
 

LAJennifer

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Date: 4/8/2009 2:11:44 PM
Author: TravelingGal
Thanks again gals...I''ll have more comments in a bit, but will be going to see the house at noon.

One thing I saw that I think is a no no is that the driveway majorly slopes DOWN to the garage. I know it doesn''t rain here a lot in california, but I''m thinking that is NOT a good thing. And it can''t be changed.

Thoughts?
Anytime there is a slope down - over time you will get something called "road push" which can cause major problems to your foundation unless it is compensated for with tie-backs and helical piers.
 

TravelingGal

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Date: 4/8/2009 2:40:48 PM
Author: LAJennifer

Date: 4/8/2009 2:11:44 PM
Author: TravelingGal
Thanks again gals...I''ll have more comments in a bit, but will be going to see the house at noon.

One thing I saw that I think is a no no is that the driveway majorly slopes DOWN to the garage. I know it doesn''t rain here a lot in california, but I''m thinking that is NOT a good thing. And it can''t be changed.

Thoughts?
Anytime there is a slope down - over time you will get something called ''road push'' which can cause major problems to your foundation unless it is compensated for with tie-backs and helical piers.
Thanks LAJenn, I will research that tonight!!
 

TravelingGal

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Alright gals, the house is kind of weird, but has potential. Here''s what would need to be done.

Everything.

Now here''s the detailed list -

Flooring through the entire house
Would paneling removed pretty much through the entire house, including ceilings in many rooms. Living room bookcases torn down. Walls redone, painted. Ceilings scraped.
Wall knocked down from kitchen to open up a room.
Kitchen completely done, including cabinets, new stone, new oven, but we have a fridge
Crown moulding put in
Both bathrooms completely redone, including taking down weird wood paneling

That would be just to get us in - bathroom would be probably the least priority.

Then in the future, another door the back of the house would be put in. There is only a side sliding door that leads to a little atrium. There is no door leading to the backyard, which is all dirt with two GIANT trees, which makes me think that roots might be an issue.

I would guestimate the work that needs to be done would take 100K, at least.

Thoughts? Pass?
 

TravelingGal

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purrfectpear

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You''re talking gut remodel. Are you counting the 9 months of mortgage payments and rent you''ll be making on a house that isn''t habitable, while you continue to rent until it is?

Pass. It''s a buyer''s market and there''s no rush. We won''t even hit bottom until summer of 2010. Anything you buy now could lose another 5% or more in value.
 

TravelingGal

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Date: 4/8/2009 4:13:13 PM
Author: purrfectpear
You''re talking gut remodel. Are you counting the 9 months of mortgage payments and rent you''ll be making on a house that isn''t habitable, while you continue to rent until it is?

Pass. It''s a buyer''s market and there''s no rush. We won''t even hit bottom until summer of 2010. Anything you buy now could lose another 5% or more in value.
That''s what I''m thinking purrfectpear. I talked to our mortgage guy and he said minimum 15% down (which we have) but it would max us out and we would be taking a SEPARATE loan out to do the remodel.

Plus that whole street creep issue.
 

decodelighted

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Ooof. What''s *good* about this place? Location? Sounds
6.gif
.
 

TravelingGal

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Date: 4/8/2009 4:27:41 PM
Author: decodelighted
Ooof. What''s *good* about this place? Location? Sounds
6.gif
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Location. Homes rarely open up in this area. I know. I''ve been walking this area (it''s a great workout because of the hills) for 3 years now seen a for sale sign only once.

There are plenty of other areas I would want to live, so I would be fine with passing.
 

Efe

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Honestly, I would pass. In my experience, it takes way more time and money than you would initially think to make such changes. Unless there is something that you absolutely love about a place, I would keep looking. Our house has a one acre pond on the property, so we were willing to put the money and effort into redoing and upgrading the interior. We have lived here for almost seven years, and while we have done a great deal, we are far from done. I don''t know that I would do it again.
 

purrfectpear

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Plus paneling doesn''t just come off the wall. It''s usually been glued with Liquid Nails in addition to finish nailed, so you end up having to tear off the paneling, remove all the drywall, and put up new drywall, tape and mud.

Of course now that you have it down to the studs it''s only too easy to decide to move some electrical, reroute some waste stacks etc. Before you know it, you''ve doubled your reno costs.
 

TravelingGal

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You guys convinced me. I passed on the house.

*sigh*

It had a lot of wonky things that would have been hard, if not impossible to change anyway. Like giant trees. Those roots could wreak havoc, I''m sure.
 

fleur-de-lis

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Date: 4/8/2009 3:59:46 PM
Author: TravelingGal
Alright gals, the house is kind of weird, but has potential. Here's what would need to be done.


Everything.


Now here's the detailed list -


Flooring through the entire house

Would paneling removed pretty much through the entire house, including ceilings in many rooms. Living room bookcases torn down. Walls redone, painted. Ceilings scraped.

Wall knocked down from kitchen to open up a room.

Kitchen completely done, including cabinets, new stone, new oven, but we have a fridge

Crown moulding put in

Both bathrooms completely redone, including taking down weird wood paneling


That would be just to get us in - bathroom would be probably the least priority.


Then in the future, another door the back of the house would be put in. There is only a side sliding door that leads to a little atrium. There is no door leading to the backyard, which is all dirt with two GIANT trees, which makes me think that roots might be an issue.


I would guestimate the work that needs to be done would take 100K, at least.


Thoughts? Pass?

So, just needs new floors, walls, ceilings, kitchen and bathrooms and you're set to go?
9.gif





Good to see that you're still looking around after the 2/1 from a few weeks back, TG. When that thread came up, costs of remodeling also came to mind, but at least with this second option you're not looking at changing the footprint of the house's foundation. From friends' experiences, that's a whole big ole' mess of forms and lengthy permits.

Though I'm also pretty bearish on the housing market right now, there are certain factors in this situation that causes me to have a slightly more nuanced opinion than PP. As far as fixing up fixer-uppers goes, the info you've shared in the past indicates that you have some things going for you that many buyers would not. You have an inexpensive place to stay during the remodel. You wouldn't have to live in-house for all the remodeling. Much of what you are describing falls into the category of cosmetic fixes. You're not adding onto the foundation or breaking through the roof in your plans. As a result, if you're really digging the house, it might be worth it with a few mods to the plan.

First off, PP makes an excellent point about being penny wise and pound foolish: if it takes you 9 months to remodel it yourselves whereas an amply paid and speedy handyman can do many tasks with a crew in a matter of weeks, throw money at the problem. For example, if ripping down wood paneling leaves pock-marked walls that you'd have to learn how to drywall then refinish then clean then prime then paint (learning as you go along and buying supplies you'll only use that one time), you are going to want to shoot yourself before the first room or two (of 5?) are done. Popcorn ceilings sometimes have asbestos; you don't want to be doing that yourself, and you don't want to have to buy the expensive rated breathing masks to wear for a job you're going to do once. (If the home was built before 1973, there are also precautions to take because of lead paint use.) If, however, someone can recommend a handyman whom they trust to you, a lot of these projects that would take you and your friend crews weeks or even months to do can be done in a matter of a day or two. Day-in and day-out experience matters BIG TIME for things like re-doing walls, ceilings and floors.

A friend recently did a remodel of some similarities to what you are proposing; I'll post a Part II in a little bit with the info.



ETA: Saw your update after I had written the above. TG, if you'd still be interested in the renovation info from my friend to mentally file away, let me know.
 

TravelingGal

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You always have good insight FDL.
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My two major concerns are not fixable..the severely downward sloping driveway (about a 40 degree incline) and the two giant trees out back.

I looked at redfin for sale history. Only one house sold on this street in the last three years.
 

TravelingGal

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I am totally interested FDL...I''m filing all of this stuff away.
 

rainwood

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T Gal-

I saw that you decided to pass on the house, but thought I''d add my two cents on the things that concerned you. A driveway with a significant slope toward the house can be an issue in the rain unless there is an adequate channel drain installed at the bottom of the slope. And the channel drain has to be well-maintained, no leaves or vegetation or anything else to clog it. SoCal may not get a lot of rain but sometimes when it rains, it really rains and that''s when you''d need to be concerned that the volume of water might exceed the drain''s capacity. If there''s no drain, you have a problem, period.

I can''t speak to street creep although where I live it rains a lot and many of the older houses have very steep driveways that lead to the house and I''ve never seen any examples of creep and some of those driveways are 50+ years old. They''re probably not more than 20 feet long though at the most, and most of them are shorter. Expansion joints need to be installed whenever there is a fair amount of concrete poured, regardless of whether the property is sloped or flat. A large expanse of concrete without expansion joints (often called control joints) will cause the concrete to crack from the changes in temperature. That''s why even flat sidewalks have control joints.

And you''re right about the big trees having big root systems. How expansive they are depends on the type of tree. Maples are notorious for choking everything else to death with their feeder roots. Some trees are worse than others, but most will inhibit growth of other things like grass. Plus if you have a lot of shade, grass is harder to grow anyway.

Good luck on your continued search.
 

Mara

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If you are still interested at all, ask to see the inspection reports. There should be something in there about the foundation of the house (aka for roots and also for the sloping issue of the driveway). We saw a house we liked until we saw the inspections. Lots of rodent problems and some leaking in the roof made it a no-no for us to pursue. It's still for sale and they have dropped it like 50k since we saw it. We didn't want to go for anything that would need extensive repair or remodel...we wanted mostly turnkey as we just don't have the time and would rather pay a bit more to not have to do that stuff.

But yeah from what you said, other than location, this sounds like a PITA project to me. I would only consider something like this if I absolutely LOVED more than one thing about the house. Overall layout. Beautiful landscaping. Extensive lot size. Location. Schools. Remodeling is possible but while you are doing it, you better absolutely love the house in a few ways other than the end result or else you'll end up hating it when done. Money Pit anyone?!?!?!
 

packrat

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I hope you find something you like that isn''t going to be a major overhaul! Or that it''s things that you can do piecemeal-we''ve been working on ours bits and pieces since we bought it-but it''s not like there''s equipment and sawdust laying everywhere! That house sounded like it would''ve been a huge headache for you!
 

Italiahaircolor

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Here are some highlights...

What year was the house built? Depending on what was the "norm" when it was built...there could be hardwood floors under the carpeting. People used to consider solid oak as a subfloor. If that''s the case, then resortation would be an option. The cost of that is usually around the same price as a moderate new hardwood would be minus the labor.

With the current economic state, you can find skill labor for a lot less than you would have even last year. People are looking for work...wheelin'' and dealin'' all the time. Craigslist is a good way to find contractors. The bonus to hiring out as opposed to DYI is that contractors get "contractor pricing" a gallon paint retails for around $22.00--but a contractor can pick it up for $12.00. It''s the same way with a lot other building material as well.

Some of the things you''re looking do can be spaced out. Crown-molding? Not a huge priority. There are things you can live without on your list if money is an issue. You must must must consider the things that you cannot change about property...location, location, location...everything else is negotiable.

The other thing is that we''re in a buyers market. Even in desirable areas, when a home is in need of a ton of work, buyers are giving incentives. You can ask for certain credits...popcorn ceiling removal or whatever. Things that can effect your health or well being are typically very negotiable upon sale, and a motivated seller is going to heavily consider that. Not everyone is willing to walk into a rough and see diamond, it takes a certain buyer, ya know?

I know you''ve said you "pass" but it might be worth asking the selling agent what is the seller willing to do for a deal before walking away. Sure, the market hasn''t bottomed out, and who knows when it will...but ask yourself what is your goal in buying a home? Is it to turn around and sell it tomorrow? Or do you plan on staying for a couple of years? With a fixer-upper as soon as you finish the home, you''ve turned a profit (even in this market!)
 

applequeen

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Date: 4/8/2009 3:59:46 PM
Author: TravelingGal
Alright gals, the house is kind of weird, but has potential. Here''s what would need to be done.

Everything.

Now here''s the detailed list -

Flooring through the entire house
Would paneling removed pretty much through the entire house, including ceilings in many rooms. Living room bookcases torn down. Walls redone, painted. Ceilings scraped.
Wall knocked down from kitchen to open up a room.
Kitchen completely done, including cabinets, new stone, new oven, but we have a fridge
Crown moulding put in
Both bathrooms completely redone, including taking down weird wood paneling

That would be just to get us in - bathroom would be probably the least priority.

Then in the future, another door the back of the house would be put in. There is only a side sliding door that leads to a little atrium. There is no door leading to the backyard, which is all dirt with two GIANT trees, which makes me think that roots might be an issue.

I would guestimate the work that needs to be done would take 100K, at least.

Thoughts? Pass?
Ok...I"m probably the only one who looked at this and thought "That''s not too bad... totally doable"
1.gif
That''s a similar list to the one we''ve been dealing with. We had a month and a half to move into the house so we really had to prioritize. We did most of the work ourselves (both of us work full time)... it was very stressful but worth it in the end.

Maybe you should take that list to a home improvement store and start pricing some stuff... that helped us to know what was doable for us. There are a lot of great deals out there right now.... and you''d be helping the economy.
1.gif


We tore down some of the paneling (in our case it had been nailed and there was drywall behind it). Our biggest wall problem was a lot of wallpaper to deal with... removing it damaged the drywall and we had to get it skim coated. In hindsight it would have been faster and easier to have torn down the wall and put up new drywall. It''s not that expensive...especially if you hang it yourself (and only pay someone to come in and do the finish work). To be honest, we left the horrible panelling in some rooms (where there was no drywall behind it) but painted it with a nice, light, nuetral color. Over time we plan to replace this with drywall... one room at a time. The guy that did our skim coat told us that panelling can also be skim coated to look like drywall... that might be an option to explore (I''m just not sure how well it would hold up). We also did the wood floors (replacing red shag carpet
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) before we moved but left the vinyl (which has just been removed)

We just tore down a wall in our kitchen (we''re in the middle of a total remodel)... that was fun and easy. The biggest issue would be (assuming it''s not a load bearing wall) if there is electrical or plumbing to be moved.

Basicallly we have sort of a 2-3 year plan that we''re spreading the work out over... and spending roughly $10,000 a year to accomplish it. It''s not great knowing the work (and expense is looming) but we''re nearing the end of the major stuff.

Here''s why I would tell you to pass though..... it doesn''t seem like you''re really feeling this house. When we saw our house I literally saw it not as it was but as I knew it would look when we were finished. All I saw was the potential and it was easy for me to know it was "the house" for us. Our plan has been to sell the house in 5-10 years and hopefully see a nice return (as I said before we are living in an area where home prices are still increasing... we''re very fortunate in that regard). We really did buy the worst house in the best neighborhood.

I hope you don''t mind me sharing so much of my experience with all this... but it''s been my life for the past year. I guess I''m an optimist when it comes to this sort of thing (you have to be in DIY home improvement).
 

applequeen

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Date: 4/8/2009 4:39:23 PM
Author: purrfectpear
Plus paneling doesn''t just come off the wall. It''s usually been glued with Liquid Nails in addition to finish nailed, so you end up having to tear off the paneling, remove all the drywall, and put up new drywall, tape and mud.

Of course now that you have it down to the studs it''s only too easy to decide to move some electrical, reroute some waste stacks etc. Before you know it, you''ve doubled your reno costs.
Haha! You''re so right about this one!!! The most expensive words in these projects are "while we''re at it" . It''s become a joke in our house (but is also a good way for us to keep in mind the extra expense when we start to add to our project).

That''s exactly what happened to us on Saturday when we decided to go ahead and tear down the wall between our kitchen and laundry room. Now we''ve got aome major electical and plumbing to move and a new laundry closet to build in our bonus room. We''re thinking we''ve just added $1000 to our project cost (materials and plumber...husband can move the electrical)....but it really is the best option for the house in the long run. In a few years that extra $ will be worth it.
 

TravelingGal

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Thanks again girls! Neither of us are handy, and I don''t have a lot of interior design vision, so I think I need a house that is somewhat turnkey. I guess so do a lot of people which means when a house comes up that looks great, it''s harder to be the one who gets the house. I think it would be better to get a house that looks good in some rooms, but might need a new kitchen or something like that. Something that is easier to manage.

You guys have been so helpful! Applequeen, it''s like you said, some people are better at visualing the house the way it will become. I am so not that person.
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pennquaker09

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Date: 4/10/2009 1:17:31 PM
Author: TravelingGal
Thanks again girls! Neither of us are handy, and I don''t have a lot of interior design vision, so I think I need a house that is somewhat turnkey. I guess so do a lot of people which means when a house comes up that looks great, it''s harder to be the one who gets the house. I think it would be better to get a house that looks good in some rooms, but might need a new kitchen or something like that. Something that is easier to manage.


You guys have been so helpful! Applequeen, it''s like you said, some people are better at visualing the house the way it will become. I am so not that person.
40.gif


You could always start an inspiration board. Whenever you see something you like in a magazine or something, tear it out and save it for when you buy your home.
 

beau13

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Date: 4/7/2009 5:19:00 PM
Author: TravelingGal


Date: 4/7/2009 5:14:25 PM
Author: lyra
$55,000?
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It's so hard to guess really. (that is just a guess btw)
Ha. Well, I am wondering if 30K would be enough?
$30 000 isn't all that much..from all the home reno shows I've been watching I can tell you that everyone ends up spending WAY more than they had budgeted for! It snowballs...and you may end up finding more problems that need to be attended to (cha-ching $$$), than you had initially thought. Even just fixing up a home "cosmetically" as you said, costs a small fortune. We just shelled out $10 000 for a leather sectional, leather chaisse-lounger, and two gallons of paint for one room in our house. Not to mention a few new wall hangings, mirrors, and accents for the room that probably cost another $1000 easily! The carpet in that room was $ 3600 (30 X 18 foot room). The hardwood floors we just installed a few months ago in three rooms was approx. $ 9 000..but I guess laminate or more inexpensive materials can be used, if you're trying to save money. Is this a house you would be living in, or selling? I just get a kick out people on these TV shows that think they will make a HUGE profit flipping a house and putting in low end products. If I spent $ 700 000 on a home, I would definitely expect solid wood cabinets in the kitchen, top grade hardwood, porcelain or tile floor, not laminate, or vinyl flooring with IKEA type cabinets. Lately..it seems these TV "flippers" are just breaking even when all is said and done..and with all the blood, sweat and tears that goes into it..I wonder why they do it!
 

TravelingGal

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Date: 4/13/2009 2:52:37 PM
Author: beau13

Date: 4/7/2009 5:19:00 PM
Author: TravelingGal



Date: 4/7/2009 5:14:25 PM
Author: lyra
$55,000?
3.gif
It''s so hard to guess really. (that is just a guess btw)
Ha. Well, I am wondering if 30K would be enough?
$30 000 isn''t all that much..from all the home reno shows I''ve been watching I can tell you that everyone ends up spending WAY more than they had budgeted for! It snowballs...and you may end up finding more problems that need to be attended to (cha-ching $$$), than you had initially thought. Even just fixing up a home ''cosmetically'' as you said, costs a small fortune. We just shelled out $10 000 for a leather sectional, leather chaisse-lounger, and two gallons of paint for one room in our house. Not to mention a few new wall hangings, mirrors, and accents for the room that probably cost another $1000 easily! The carpet in that room was $ 3600 (30 X 18 foot room). The hardwood floors we just installed a few months ago in three rooms was approx. $ 9 000..but I guess laminate or more inexpensive materials can be used, if you''re trying to save money. Is this a house you would be living in, or selling? I just get a kick out people on these TV shows that think they will make a HUGE profit flipping a house and putting in low end products. If I spent $ 700 000 on a home, I would definitely expect solid wood cabinets in the kitchen, top grade hardwood, porcelain or tile floor, not laminate, or vinyl flooring with IKEA type cabinets. Lately..it seems these TV ''flippers'' are just breaking even when all is said and done..and with all the blood, sweat and tears that goes into it..I wonder why they do it!
We probably wouldn''t care for the highest level materials (I''m not in the league of a 10K sectional and lounger), but I agree that 30K would be a drop in the bucket, so to speak. We would be looking to live, possibly as our forever house. I would never bother going through the trouble just to flip a house.
 

Mara

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speaking of laminate flooring etc, i was doing some resarch the other day and came across some information about the levels of formaldehyde in a lot of the ''faux'' wood stuff that is being sold now, mostly MDF but apparently very prevalent in many types of laminate flooring etc. the article was about this brand new construction house where they used MDF baseboards, ceiling trim, and the whole house was wood laminate and the couple got VERY sick from all the chemicals and apparently they had some lasting health effects that they attribute to the house. makes you a little paranoid about thinking about materials and what some new construction uses etc. never thought that something like MDF could be BAD... think about all that ikea furniture, hmm.
 

pennquaker09

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I can tell you that even though you don''t want the high end stuff, you definitely don''t want kitchen cabinets from IKEA. To get right to the point, they are utter crap.

Since you live in LA, I''m pretty sure you could find a cabinet builder. Believe it or not, custom is cheaper than going to one of the big box stores.
 

Hudson_Hawk

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Date: 4/8/2009 4:39:23 PM
Author: purrfectpear
Plus paneling doesn''t just come off the wall. It''s usually been glued with Liquid Nails in addition to finish nailed, so you end up having to tear off the paneling, remove all the drywall, and put up new drywall, tape and mud.


Of course now that you have it down to the studs it''s only too easy to decide to move some electrical, reroute some waste stacks etc. Before you know it, you''ve doubled your reno costs.

LOL PP, you sound JUST like my dad! He had this happen to him on his latest reno project. He removed some paneling in a bathroom, removed the drywall, and discovered that the previous owner had routed their exhaust fan into the wall instead of out of the house. Imagine 20 years of stinky steamy bathroom exhaust blowing into a wall cavity. Can we say EW?
 

mela lu

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oh gawd....and as a BTDT girl, let me just say that you WILL need 10k for an "emergency". In our case, it was to replace the main sewage stack that runs from our house to the street. 10k. It was old, made of clay, and crumbled mere months after getting the house. The result was sewage in the basement
14.gif
.


PAAN! Just like that.
It could be ANYTHING...lurking behind walls, underground etc.

That''s my 10k of 2c''s.
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