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Holloway Cut Advisor

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ErickandCrystal

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 9, 2009
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43
Hello All,

I am trying to purchase a ring, once again. I looked into the Holloway Cut Advisor and I think I have found some good diamonds I am just wondering how big a difference there is between VERY GOOD Scintillation and EXCELLENT Scintillation. Also, is spread more important than scintillation?

The following are the specs. and HCA ratings...


Weight Color Cut Depth Table Crown Pavillion HCA Light Fire Scintillation Spread

.32 F IF 61.5 57.0 34.5 40.8 1.4 EX EX EX VG
.32 F IF 61.8 55.0 34.5 40.8 1.3 EX EX EX VG
.66 F IF 59.8 59.0 34.0 40.8 1.3 EX EX VG EX


My last ring was not shiny at all and I don''t want to buy another dud, only to be dissapointed again. Any help is appreciated.

Thanks!
Crys
 
The HCA cannot physically see the stone and is only estimating any performance aspect, so not really possible to say one diamond has better scintillation than another based on it.

Spread, all but the shallower stones get VG for spread as you can see from your post, many of the best cut diamonds we see here score VG in this department.
 
Third column is clarity? IF is not necessary for a sparkly stone, an eye-clean SI1 can be that too.

Spread EX score is easy to achieve for the HCA, depth just has to go lower or equal to 60.3%. Physically, it might be impossible to get that depth for certain combination of table, crown and pav angle without the girdle becoming too thin or negative, but there are some out there.

HCA is just to weed out the non-performing cuts, IS/ASET image will tell more about the cut and optical symm.
 
Hi Crys,

Do not get caught up in the details of the HCA. Please use it as a rejection-tool, and if the stone scores lower than 2.0, examine that stone more in detail with other tools.

Actually, we should probably take the following up with Garry (the developer of the HCA), since a lot of the info coming out of the HCA is not up-to-date.

The score for Fire is based, I think, on the premise that a slightly steeper crown gives more Fire. That premise is flawed as such, and I would recommend not having a Fire-score in the HCA.

As for scintillation, there is no way that scintillation can be deducted from the minimum information being entered into the HCA.

Spread, then again, is a score that is highly dependent upon a personal preference of Garry Holloway. It gives to wonder.

With all this said, the HCA is a great rejection-tool, if you use the score and disregard the extra ''information''.

Live long,
 
Date: 7/8/2009 5:51:43 AM
Author: Paul-Antwerp
Hi Crys,

Do not get caught up in the details of the HCA. Please use it as a rejection-tool, and if the stone scores lower than 2.0, examine that stone more in detail with other tools.

Actually, we should probably take the following up with Garry (the developer of the HCA), since a lot of the info coming out of the HCA is not up-to-date.

The score for Fire is based, I think, on the premise that a slightly steeper crown gives more Fire. That premise is flawed as such, and I would recommend not having a Fire-score in the HCA.

As for scintillation, there is no way that scintillation can be deducted from the minimum information being entered into the HCA.

Spread, then again, is a score that is highly dependent upon a personal preference of Garry Holloway. It gives to wonder.

With all this said, the HCA is a great rejection-tool, if you use the score and disregard the extra ''information''.

Live long,
Click to expand...
Paul, I get the gist of the message, but do find the conclusion at least somewhat troublesome.

Is this sort of like saying...put a billion monkeys in front of a typewriter, wait for one of them to come up with Shakespeare''s Romeo & Juliet, and seek to stand there...holding the manuscript in one hand, your arm around the monkey with the other, and have a photographer taking a picture of your congratulating the monkey?

Probably not quite, but do see again Garry''s development web site, and be reminded of this page, where the "coming together" of the HCA is based on an incremental piecing together of the 4 individual pieces.

But, if you''re saying the individual pieces don''t work, but...somehow...when put together, the whole thing does anyway...one would like to understand how this is anything but a lucky punch?
 
Hey Ira,

If the four constituents were independent of one another, my objections to 3 of the 4 would be weird. Since all 4 are partially inter-related, I suggest that one uses the aggregate score as a rejection-tool, but neglects the sub-parts.

Live long,
 
Paul,

Maybe your saying that the 40% reasonable hit for brightness works well enough, such that the other 3 factors and their being thrown in doesn''t mess up the total too badly...?...
 
Date: 7/8/2009 12:45:54 AM
Author:ErickandCrystal
Hello All,

I am trying to purchase a ring, once again. I looked into the Holloway Cut Advisor and I think I have found some good diamonds I am just wondering how big a difference there is between VERY GOOD Scintillation and EXCELLENT Scintillation. Also, is spread more important than scintillation?

The following are the specs. and HCA ratings...


Weight Color Cut Depth Table Crown Pavillion HCA Light Fire Scintillation Spread

.32 F IF 61.5 57.0 34.5 40.8 1.4 EX EX EX VG
.32 F IF 61.8 55.0 34.5 40.8 1.3 EX EX EX VG
.66 F IF 59.8 59.0 34.0 40.8 1.3 EX EX VG EX


My last ring was not shiny at all and I don''t want to buy another dud, only to be dissapointed again. Any help is appreciated.

Thanks!
Crys
Click to expand...
I''d go with one of the first two, they are cut to produce a nice mix of brilliance and fire, while the last is geared a bit more toward brilliance, a bit less on fire.

And I echo not worrying about the difference between EX and VG scintillation. I have an extremely well cut stone, and the HCA only gives it VG, which is not the case.
28.gif
Also, it only got VG in spread, though it''s diameter is spot on for its carat weight. Scintillation is more important than spread, at least as far as I''m concerned. But size/spread is more important to others. The slightly shallower cut stones get EX in spread, but that doesn''t make them prettier. On the contrary, it "could" hinder contrast scintillation.
 
I believe she is considering all three stones for a three stone ring.

Crystal, you were ok with VVS clarity on your old ring . . . why IF now? I'd go the other direction--look at VS clarity--unless you are willing to pay significantly more because of cultural preferences (in some parts of the world D-F, IF-VVS are valued more) or sentimental reasons. There is no truth to the idea that inclusions affect brilliance until they become quite large (think I2 or I3 clarity).
 
Date: 7/8/2009 10:03:01 AM
Author: phoenixgirl
I believe she is considering all three stones for a three stone ring.
Click to expand...
Oh, thanks. I didn''t catch that anywhere in her post, but looking at the size of stones, I guess maybe she is.
 
Everybody - thanks, for your help. I am doing a three stone ring; I guess I was just needing some approval on the three stones that I chose.

Phoenix - I did get VVS1 or VVS2 on my last ring. The inclusions on the GIA Report just ate at me and I think they would continue to bother me.



Thanks,
Crys
 
AGS reports are considerd as good as GIA (if not better) - this is what I have read on this forum. So you should also
check out that stone.
 
yap, AGS is just as good as GIA, better for cut.
 
That''s great news! Thanks tyty & stone!
 
Good luck. :)
 
Chry''s you have had good advice, and you are trying too hard with the minimal info from a few bits of data - see the results as an indication of maximum potential - and that the cut offs for each term may mean one is .99 and the other is 1.00 - the difference may not be critical.
it is a rejection tool and none of those stones should be rejected.

Date: 7/8/2009 7:35:43 AM
Author: Regular Guy

Date: 7/8/2009 5:51:43 AM
Author: Paul-Antwerp
Hi Crys,

Do not get caught up in the details of the HCA. Please use it as a rejection-tool, and if the stone scores lower than 2.0, examine that stone more in detail with other tools.

Actually, we should probably take the following up with Garry (the developer of the HCA), since a lot of the info coming out of the HCA is not up-to-date.

The score for Fire is based, I think, on the premise that a slightly steeper crown gives more Fire. That premise is flawed as such, and I would recommend not having a Fire-score in the HCA.

As for scintillation, there is no way that scintillation can be deducted from the minimum information being entered into the HCA.

Spread, then again, is a score that is highly dependent upon a personal preference of Garry Holloway. It gives to wonder.

With all this said, the HCA is a great rejection-tool, if you use the score and disregard the extra ''information''.

Live long,
Click to expand...
Paul, I get the gist of the message, but do find the conclusion at least somewhat troublesome.

Is this sort of like saying...put a billion monkeys in front of a typewriter, wait for one of them to come up with Shakespeare''s Romeo & Juliet, and seek to stand there...holding the manuscript in one hand, your arm around the monkey with the other, and have a photographer taking a picture of your congratulating the monkey?

Probably not quite, but do see again Garry''s development web site, and be reminded of this page, where the ''coming together'' of the HCA is based on an incremental piecing together of the 4 individual pieces.

But, if you''re saying the individual pieces don''t work, but...somehow...when put together, the whole thing does anyway...one would like to understand how this is anything but a lucky punch?
Click to expand...
Paul Spead is a very easy calculation.
It has nothing to do with my preference.
Again, each of the other results is a potential - not an absolute. The potential is able to be estimated. Are the results of later works more precise? probably.
 
Garry H (Cut Nut) - none of those stones should be rejected. - That is all I wanted to hear. After sending my last ring back, I looked up the diamonds on the HCA and two out of three of them scored very poorly.

Garry H (Cut Nut) - see the results as an indication of maximum potential - and that the cut offs for each term may mean one is .99 and the other is 1.00 - the difference may not be critical. - That''s awesome to know because I almost went nuts again, trying to change the center stone. When I read the GIA report it looked like the pavillion was 40.5; I called and verified, as the GIA Report was fuzzy and they told me it was 40.8. The difference in .3 is...

40.5 40.8
LIGHT EX EX
FIRE EX EX
SCINTILLATION EX VG
SPREAD EX EX
HCA SCORE .8 1.3

I can''t believe how I drive myself nuts over a .5 difference in score but I do. I finally decided to just let it go, as 1.3 is still a good rating I''m told. I just needed some reassurance that I was buying good diamonds. lol. Sounds dumb, I know...

Thanks!
Crys
 
1.3 is a good score, next step are Idealscope and or ASET images if you can get them.
 
Lorelei - I don''t even know what Idealsccope or ASET are. At this point, I''m happy with the HCA scores and will be happy if the ring just looks good. lol. I''m actually getting tired and frustrated, looking for rings.

Crys
 
Date: 7/11/2009 10:09:46 PM
Author: ErickandCrystal
Lorelei - I don't even know what Idealsccope or ASET are. At this point, I'm happy with the HCA scores and will be happy if the ring just looks good. lol. I'm actually getting tired and frustrated, looking for rings.

Crys
Click to expand...
This page explains ASET and Idealscope images, these are the next step in the selection process after you determine from the HCA which diamonds are worth further evaluation.

http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=education-performance

These images are incredibly useful to find the best diamond out of the below 2 scorers with the HCA, if you are getting tired take a break for a couple of days and begin again. This happens a lot that buyers feel overwhelmed at times!
 
Date: 7/12/2009 5:22:17 AM
Author: Lorelei

This page explains ASET and Idealscope images, these are the next step in the selection process after you determine from the HCA which diamonds are worth further evaluation.

http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=education-performance

These images are incredibly useful to find the best diamond out of the below 2 scorers with the HCA, if you are getting tired take a break for a couple of days and begin again. This happens a lot that buyers feel overwhelmed at times!
Click to expand...
Definitely. To stop now would mean you are only getting half the story on these stones. Without the images to confirm they in fact do have good light return, you could end up with duds again. Good numbers don't automatically mean good stones. The HCA is actually meant to be used this way.
28.gif
 
Date: 7/12/2009 8:40:16 AM
Author: Ellen

Date: 7/12/2009 5:22:17 AM
Author: Lorelei

This page explains ASET and Idealscope images, these are the next step in the selection process after you determine from the HCA which diamonds are worth further evaluation.

http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=education-performance

These images are incredibly useful to find the best diamond out of the below 2 scorers with the HCA, if you are getting tired take a break for a couple of days and begin again. This happens a lot that buyers feel overwhelmed at times!
Click to expand...
Definitely. To stop now would mean you are only getting half the story on these stones. Without the images to confirm they in fact do have good light return, you could end up with duds again. Good numbers don''t automatically mean good stones. The HCA is actually meant to be used this way.
28.gif
Click to expand...
Well said! E&C we will help you through this!
 
Date: 7/12/2009 8:42:25 AM
Author: Lorelei
Date: 7/12/2009 8:40:16 AM

Author: Ellen


Date: 7/12/2009 5:22:17 AM

Author: Lorelei


This page explains ASET and Idealscope images, these are the next step in the selection process after you determine from the HCA which diamonds are worth further evaluation.


http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=education-performance


These images are incredibly useful to find the best diamond out of the below 2 scorers with the HCA, if you are getting tired take a break for a couple of days and begin again. This happens a lot that buyers feel overwhelmed at times!
Click to expand...
Definitely. To stop now would mean you are only getting half the story on these stones. Without the images to confirm they in fact do have good light return, you could end up with duds again. Good numbers don''t automatically mean good stones. The HCA is actually meant to be used this way.
28.gif
Click to expand...

Well said! E&C we will help you through this!
Click to expand...
I don''t understand...Where do I find these tools? Do I need to purchase them? Would a local jeweler be able to do this for me, once I receive the ring? Can you not tell, by eye, if the diamonds are nice or not?

I am just hoping so b/c I am supposed to be getting this ring on Tuesday and don''t want to send another one back. I wish the company would do those things for you, before you purchase, or do they?

Crys
 
Date: 7/17/2009 3:01:48 AM
Author: ErickandCrystal

I don''t understand...Where do I find these tools? Do I need to purchase them? Would a local jeweler be able to do this for me, once I receive the ring? Can you not tell, by eye, if the diamonds are nice or not?

I am just hoping so b/c I am supposed to be getting this ring on Tuesday and don''t want to send another one back. I wish the company would do those things for you, before you purchase, or do they?

Crys
Click to expand...
I read back through your other post. Are these from BN? If so, they don''t do pics. Are they from GOG? I''m thinking not, but they do provide the pics. As Sc said, some do, some don''t. "Most" local jewelers wouldn''t have them, but a few do.

If wherever they are from doesn''t provide them, and the ring is probably already done, or close to, just see what you think when you get it. And, you could always buy an Idealscope too. Or, an independant appraiser could be most helpful here. That is one who does not sell jewelry. They will give an honest, unbiased opinion of the stones.
 
Hello again,

Thanks to everyone for all of their advice! I received my ring today and I absolutely love it. I''ve decided that I don''t need to pursue it any further and buy an ideal scope; I''ve had about enough of driving myself insane.

It''s such an improvement over the last ring and sparkles like crazy; if I could only capture that in pictures, I''d be good.

I''ll try again to post some pictures and I apologize in advance if they are huge...lol.

Thanks again!

Mirrored.JPG
 
Congrats. :)
 
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