Here's why we should NOT have gun control

[kenny]

These stories are funnier than crap.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/accidental-shooting-penis-georgia

A Macon, Ga. man accidentally shot himself in the penis on Thursday, according to WMAZ Channel 13.

The man was trying to holster his .45 caliber gun while parked in a gas station parking lot when it accidentally discharged.

He then when to a friend's house, where he discovered he "shot himself in the penis and that the bullet exited out of his buttocks," according to WMAZ.

 

[aljdewey]

And the very sad thing about that? It will be counted as a 'gun-related' injury instead of what it really is - an idiocy-related injury.

 

[AGBF]

These stories are funnier than crap.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/accidental-shooting-penis-georgia

A Macon, Ga. man accidentally shot himself in the penis on Thursday, according to WMAZ Channel 13.

The man was trying to holster his .45 caliber gun while parked in a gas station parking lot when it accidentally discharged.

He then when to a friend's house, where he discovered he "shot himself in the penis and that the bullet exited out of his buttocks,"

according to WMAZ.

What immediately stuck out in this story (to me), was that the man didn't discover that he had shot himself (in the penis) until he went to his friend's house! I realize that I may be jumping to conclusions and that, for example, the gun accident may have sent him into shock...but I cannot help but wonder if he was somewhat inebriated when he shot himself. That might explain why it took him a while to realize that he had been wounded. It may be alcohol, not idiocy, that was mixed with firearms. Not that the two are mutually exclusive, of course.

Deb/AGBF

 

[movie zombie]

nature's way of culling ala Darwin? stupid is as stupid does..........or so Forest Gump's momma taught him.
and I'm betting it was something way more "potent" than alcohol that fuzzed this guy's senses.......

this is why we should not have gun control:

http://www.valdostadailytimes.com/local/x1396893474/Man-shoots-home-invaders

why should this family not be able to protect itself? should they be happy to be shot and should dad/hubby have taken a chance that they wouldn't be killed when the burglars decided to leave?

 

[redwood66]

He must have been totally out of it not to know he shot himself with a 45 in the penis! Sounds like bs to me. What bothers me more is the thought that he drove to his friend's house.

 

[AGBF]

He must have been totally out of it not to know he shot himself with a 45 in the penis! Sounds like bs to me.

I always taught my history students not to believe everything they read (although I used, as my example, Livy and the Punic Wars). Perhaps someone needs to take a closer look at this.

Deb/AGBF

 

[redwood66]

No I do not want a closer look...

 

[Circe]

First draft pick for the Darwin Award.

 

[Indylady]

So strange!!

 

[ruby59]

Same scenario - But how would you feel if that same guy, instead of shooting himself, accidently shot someone else?

 

[packrat]

Do you expect someone to say they would dance a jig of glee?

 

[partgypsy]

And the very sad thing about that? It will be counted as a 'gun-related' injury instead of what it really is - an idiocy-related injury.

Exactly. But do you think it is easier to control gun access, or idiocy in humans? I think controlling guns is easier than controlling idiocy. Idiocy has been with us for thousands of years and remain with us.

 

[ruby59]

Do you expect someone to say they would dance a jig of glee?

Is this directed at me? If so, I have no clue what your point is.

 

[aljdewey]

And the very sad thing about that? It will be counted as a 'gun-related' injury instead of what it really is - an idiocy-related injury.

Exactly. But do you think it is easier to control gun access, or idiocy in humans? I think controlling guns is easier than controlling idiocy. Idiocy has been with us for thousands of years and remain with us.

And so have accidents. No matter what we do, you will never eliminate all accidents from happening. Accidents, by the way, happen to smart people, too, not just stupid people. Complacency also happens to both smart and stupid people; you can't legislate around that.

The point of control/prevention, whether it's guns, cars, or any other thing, is to keep risk down to acceptable level. It can't and won't ever achieve total success at eliminating accidents.

I'll go back to the numbers I posted before for 2010. 31,076 gun deaths that year; 19,392 of them (a full 2/3) were suicides (all intentional, not accidental). Only 606 of them were unintentional accidental fatal shootings - less than 2%.

 

[packrat]

Same scenario - But how would you feel if that same guy, instead of shooting himself, accidently shot someone else?

This was said. I took it as another reason to throw sticks at those who own guns. I don't understand, if that's not what was meant. How would anyone feel? Of course people would be sad if someone was shot accidentally.

 

[ruby59]

Same scenario - But how would you feel if that same guy, instead of shooting himself, accidently shot someone else?

This was said. I took it as another reason to throw sticks at those who own guns. I don't understand, if that's not what was meant. How would anyone feel? Of course people would be sad if someone was shot accidentally.

Why would you assume that? Why not ask for clarification first, before you attack.

Please note I did not respond at all in both of the other "gun" threads. So you have no idea what my stance is on gun ownership or gun control.

This thread was posted as a joke. For me it hit home because a relative was paralyzed from a bullet that riccoched (sp) and hit him in the spine. But even with that, I can appreciate both sides of the equation. I just wish I could be allowed to express my opinion without being prejudged.

 

[msop04]

First draft pick for the Darwin Award.

BWAHAHAHAAAA!!! That's hilarious!!

 

[kenny]

I would never throw sticks at a gun owner.
They have a gun.

 

[redwood66]

I would never throw sticks at a gun owner.
They have a gun.

You are so wise in your decision.

 

[partgypsy]

And the very sad thing about that? It will be counted as a 'gun-related' injury instead of what it really is - an idiocy-related injury.

Exactly. But do you think it is easier to control gun access, or idiocy in humans? I think controlling guns is easier than controlling idiocy. Idiocy has been with us for thousands of years and remain with us.

And so have accidents. No matter what we do, you will never eliminate all accidents from happening. Accidents, by the way, happen to smart people, too, not just stupid people. Complacency also happens to both smart and stupid people; you can't legislate around that.

The point of control/prevention, whether it's guns, cars, or any other thing, is to keep risk down to acceptable level. It can't and won't ever achieve total success at eliminating accidents.

I'll go back to the numbers I posted before for 2010. 31,076 gun deaths that year; 19,392 of them (a full 2/3) were suicides (all intentional, not accidental). Only 606 of them were unintentional accidental fatal shootings - less than 2%.

One thing I agree with pro gun proponents, regarding gun access, the cat may already be out of the bag for this country. We literally have enough guns in this country to arm every man, women, child, infant. So I don't really have a dog in this fight.

Working with mental illness I would not put the suicides as not worth counting, or somehow irrelevant category.
It is still a loss of life and having a gun in the household makes a suicide attempt much more likely to be successful. While people who are depressed and thinking of suicide, may with time able to get out of depression and out of those suicidal feelings, being dead from a gunshot is forever.

A gun in the home makes the likelihood of homicide three times higher, suicide three to five times higher, and accidental death four times higher.


Here are the numbers you may be curious about. For every time a gun in the home injures or kills in self-defense, there are 11 completed and attempted gun suicides, seven criminal assaults and homicides with a gun, and four unintentional shooting deaths or injuries.

U.S. children and teens were 32 times more likely to die from a gun homicide and 10 times more likely to die from a gun suicide or a gun accident than all their peers in the other high-income countries combined.

It is estimated that the the 105,177 gun deaths and injuries to children, teens and adults that occurred in 2010 cost
the nation $8.4 billion in medical and other direct costs, $52.5 billion in lost productivity and lost wages, and $113.3 billion in lost enjoyment of life (1% of our GDP)

http://www.childrensdefense.org/child-research-data-publications/data/protect-children-not-guns-2013.pdf

 

[aljdewey]

PG, I don't really have a dog in this fight either......because I'm not a gun owner.

As for whether or not suicides should count - of course they should, but the remedy for that will be different than it will be for drastically reducing accidental shootings (which isn't what suicides are). God, I feel like a damned broken record in having to say this over and over again, but here goes:

There is no single solution that's going to significant improve all gun fatalities, regardless of cause - cause matters in crafting solutions. Preventing gun-related suicides will likely involve much different measures than reducing the number of unintentional/accident shootings, and both of those will involve different solutions than gun-related intended homicides. Because the root causes of each are different, each will require different solutions.

Trust me, I hear you about suicides still being a loss of life, and I fully agree with you. Being dead is forever no matter how one gets there - not just from a gunshot. The people who jumped off the Golden Gate Bridge are just as eternally dead as the people who killed themselves with a gun. But as I mentioned, approximately half of all successful suicides don't involve guns now. Of the 38,000+ suicides in 2010, more than 19,000 of them were accomplished without a gun. We don't know if those 19,000 non-gun suicides had access to guns and didn't use them, or if they didn't have access and just found other ways. What we do know is that 19,000 people who didn't use guns still managed to kill themselves.

We should be trying to address ALL suicide, not just those that happen with guns, right? What prompts the suicide isn't "oh, I have access to a gun at this moment, so perhaps I should contemplate suicide." The thought to end one's pain comes first, and the manner they choose comes after. It's entirely possible that every gun suicide would have still happened another way if a gun hadn't been available; it's also possible that some of them may not have happened. We have no way to know. Did having a gun make it easier? Likely so, but we can't assume that those deaths wouldn't have occurred at all if it took more than 3 minutes to locate and load a gun. "Oh, well if I have to think about it for more than 5 minutes, I won't do it." - said no one ever.

The key to reducing gun-related suicides will be different from the key to preventing unintentional shootings, etc etc.

 

[Maria D]

PG, I don't really have a dog in this fight either......because I'm not a gun owner.

As for whether or not suicides should count - of course they should, but the remedy for that will be different than it will be for drastically reducing accidental shootings (which isn't what suicides are). God, I feel like a damned broken record in having to say this over and over again, but here goes:

There is no single solution that's going to significant improve all gun fatalities, regardless of cause - cause matters in crafting solutions. Preventing gun-related suicides will likely involve much different measures than reducing the number of unintentional/accident shootings, and both of those will involve different solutions than gun-related intended homicides. Because the root causes of each are different, each will require different solutions.

Trust me, I hear you about suicides still being a loss of life, and I fully agree with you. Being dead is forever no matter how one gets there - not just from a gunshot. The people who jumped off the Golden Gate Bridge are just as eternally dead as the people who killed themselves with a gun. But as I mentioned, approximately half of all successful suicides don't involve guns now. Of the 38,000+ suicides in 2010, more than 19,000 of them were accomplished without a gun. We don't know if those 19,000 non-gun suicides had access to guns and didn't use them, or if they didn't have access and just found other ways. What we do know is that 19,000 people who didn't use guns still managed to kill themselves.

We should be trying to address ALL suicide, not just those that happen with guns, right? What prompts the suicide isn't "oh, I have access to a gun at this moment, so perhaps I should contemplate suicide." The thought to end one's pain comes first, and the manner they choose comes after. It's entirely possible that every gun suicide would have still happened another way if a gun hadn't been available; it's also possible that some of them may not have happened. We have no way to know. Did having a gun make it easier? Likely so, but we can't assume that those deaths wouldn't have occurred at all if it took more than 3 minutes to locate and load a gun. "Oh, well if I have to think about it for more than 5 minutes, I won't do it." - said no one ever.

The key to reducing gun-related suicides will be different from the key to preventing unintentional shootings, etc etc.

You do sound like a broken record and a staticky inaccurate one at that. You are not the expert on suicide that you think you are. To write something as flip as "Oh, well if I have to think about it, blah blah blah, said no one ever" shows this.

Here's an excellent article that will shed some light on the subject for anyone who is interested in more than repeating themselves ad nauseum.

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/magazine-features/guns-and-suicide-the-hidden-toll/

 

[AGBF]

Here's an excellent article that will shed some light on the subject....

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/magazine-features/guns-and-suicide-the-hidden-toll/

I agree with you that the article to which you posted the link is excellent, Maria. I had never seen it before. Thank you for sharing.

Deb