Help with this diamond!

[pqcollectibles]

There is no beating going on here! This is a group of intelligent, strong will people voicing their opinions!

I respect F&I greatly. She is very accomplished and knowledgeable.

IMHO, buying site unseen, on the available GIA info alone, is an unproven product. Forget about Sarin for a moment. Get some actual pics, an IS image, and now we're not working blind. This diamond could be a great performer. It's just I've been through the return process and know it can take up to a month. That's a long time to have your emotion and $$$ invested in a diamond that you decided not to buy.

Numbers alone are not the end all be all. Is the diamond priced right? Visually,.... Does the diamond call to the buyer? Speak to the buyer? That's the ultimate test.

Derek made a good point. For Newbies, having the extra specs is useful in the decision making process.

 

[fire&ice]

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On 1/8/2004 12:30:11 PM pqcollectibles wrote:

, strong will people voicing their opinions!

.

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Surely, you could not be referring to moi.

 

[Mara]

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On 1/8/2004 11:56:10 AM fire&ice wrote:





But, sometimes on this forum it is the definitiveness (if there is such a word) of one's decision as gospel that irks & leads people to believe their opinion/approach is 'wrong' when in fact it's just different. For example, Mara is rather blunt. I'm a big girl. But, to call the act of buying w/o out all these numbers (which I don't subscribe to as completely relevant) as foolish is biased to only thinking that one sees such *incrediable* relevancy of the Sarin. Does that make me foolish for considering such stone w/o a sarin? No. I could spin it to say that discounting all stones w/o a Sarin is foolish. But then I buy & sell for a living & know that *all* buying avenues should be considered. And, I'm happiest buying on my eye. Doesn't make my decision uninformed or foolish.

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F&I...please do call anyone who discounts stones without a Sarin foolish. Newflash. I could care less. Yes, I am very blunt....we are all adults here and I don't have the time or patience to mince words as has been said before. I don't run away crying if someone disagrees with me. No, I will probably argue my point til I'm blue in the face. Everyone who knows me says I would have made an excellent lawyer. I find that a huge compliment.

Too bad I'm in marketing, it doesn't pay as well.

And for the LAST TIME...it's not just about the Sarin. Repeat after me. It's not just about the Sarin. If you read what I noted, I said that the other items are relevant as well. IdealScope..pictures of the stone, etc. If you are buying online, taking a chance on a stone with the good BASICS when you have perfectly good options that give you the BASICS+MORE, which would you choose? Really. Sometimes I think you argue too hard against the numbers. If you think I argue too hard FOR, you argue too hard AGAINST and guess what? Our opinions probably negate each other in the eyes of the readers anyway and we're not doing any good. I am not saying that all stones without a Sarin are crap. I'm going to bold that to ensure that it gets understood. But when you are shopping online, be realistic. You are a risk taker but 99% of the rest of population is not with $5k. It's alot of money to alot of people. The more information given, the more comfortable the purchase feels.

Original poster (poor soul) asked for opinions and he got them. He even said he should maybe keep looking and things sounded odd. At least someone is listening.

 

[cherry]

I am the one who posted the orignal post, I am so sorry that I have brought up the arguement. Everybody here is so nice and gives me lots of opinions about the diamonds and I appreciate it very much. However, i don't want you guys to have an arguement, can you guys just be friends again and support each other as well as Pricescope?

 

[pqcollectibles]

Cherry~

We all do admire and respect each other. Fire and Ice, Mara, and AlJDewey are some of the greatest people I've had the pleasure of getting to know. Each one is a diamond in my eyes and each one is as unique as diamonds are.

F&I is a mature, very accomplished, professional, brass tacks business woman. She can spot a bargain from 100 miles and walk away with a better price! Mara and AL are young whipper snappers. Very bright, skilled, and vivacious. I learned different things from all of them. Each has different life experiences and basis of knowledge to share. Each points out different aspects to consider. They make for a balanced point of view. I'm just an old broad who's lived a long time, traveled a lot, and been around the block more than a few times.

Please don't take the banter as arguing. We are all really just a bunch of strong willed individuals voicing our opinions. If only I could bottle all this zest for life..... I'd make a fortune selling that elixer!

Nah, probably not. I'd drink it all myself!

 

[aljdewey]

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On 1/8/2004 3:42:09 PM pqcollectibles wrote:





F&I is a mature, very accomplished, professional, brass tacks business woman. She can spot a bargain from 100 miles and walk away with a better price! Mara and AL are young whipper snappers. Very bright, skilled, and vivacious. ----------------

Yanno, if I didn't know better, PQ.....I'd swear your flattery was designed to DATE me! hhehheheee

I have news for you......I am approximately the same age as F&I! Much as I love the "young whipper snapper" moniker, I just don't qualify anymore.

Yeah, I'm getting married very late in life, so that can mislead folks into thinking that I'm younger.....but I have to fess up that I AM on the "other side" of that.

 

[fire&ice]

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On 1/8/2004 1:19:59 PM Mara wrote:

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On 1/8/2004 11:56:10 AM fire&ice wrote:

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Repeat after me, I don't find the information on GIA to be *only* basic.

I am sincere when I say one can learn quite a bit from the GIA cert. Yeah, I argue against the numbers because this forum is *so* biased towards them. When in fact, somewhere in the middle lies the truth.

I am not saying they are irrelevant. To get back to point, if I were Cherry, *I* would pursue the GIA stone. I seriously doubt that this stone is a dog. And, the stone's tightness intrigues me. Show me a stone in that price range w/ those specs (don't have counter argument about VS vs SI - it's moot)& that *degree* of tightness. Quite frankly, the reason it intrigues me is that it appears to be cut by a machine. And, the Russian are very *progressive* in the diamond biz. From everything I see/read/hear - to issue of sharing the wealth w/ the people (Furthermore's sentiment). The later being pretty radical. Are they using a machine?

My final point. This stone looks nice. I'm confident. I have the right to voice this to Cherry. Now, my curiousity has got the best of me to find out the darn numbers.

Maybe we can post a poll to try to guess.

And, Caratgirl is echoing the same thing (about the GIA numbers) that I hear from people who do look at diamonds all day long.

Geez, maybe we all *should* go to law school. Mara, the same sentiment has been thrown my way. I doubt there are many jobs for lawyers/GG. I can think of one; but, that position is already filled by Ben.

 

[pqcollectibles]

AL~

I'm just a kid in an older person's body. Late in life marriage, with much later in life family start.

We have friends our age that are already grandparents. At swim practice this summer, a Mom who did not know me well asked if I was there with my granddaughter!

I don't think I look that old and I know I certainly don't feel it! Running with the kids wears me out more than it used to, but they keep me young at heart and on my toes. If only my mind could keep up, I'd be alright!

 

[Mara]

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On 1/8/2004 4:42:27 PM fire&ice wrote:

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Geez, maybe we all *should* go to law school. Mara, the same sentiment has been thrown my way. I doubt there are many jobs for lawyers/GG. I can think of one; but, that position is already filled by Ben.

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The two of us can take him.

 

[aljdewey]

Just a random thought: I've seen many people come here and give similar information on diamonds (whether GIA or AGS, etc.), and I seem to recall that in most cases, NiceIce will almost always respond by saying "we can't really tell you anything meaningful without the rest of the information."

I don't know too many others who spend more time looking at diamonds all day than vendors such as Robin & Todd do, and if *they* still feel that having more information is *better* than having less information, I guess I'd choose to err on that side, too.

Sure, the stone could be beautiful.....I never disputed that. But you guys need to acknowledge that it is *not* FREE to have expert eyes look at the stone. The fact that you and Caratgirl have looked at many, many GIA stones may make you feel confident enough in your *own* abilities to eyeball, but that's not the case for most of us. So, for most of us, it involves *paying* an appraiser to do that for us. If I'm laying my money on the line and I have a 70% chance of success with on the stone with only a GIA grading report and I have a 90% chance of success with a stone that has more information (whatever kind that may be - crown/pav angles OR ideal-scope-OR something else)......I'd lay my money on the 90% option every time.

The fact is.....even stones that have all the right *complete* numbers still aren't guaranteed to be performers. Yes, it's *possible* to buy a nice stone without a lot of upfront information.

But there's a boatload of difference between "possible" and "probable", and if I'm going to spend my hard-earned money to send a stone to an appraiser, I'd rather put my money behind probable every time. And I am confident in that opinion.

Maybe this analogy will resonate better (and if it doesn't, it's doesn't. I'm done after this).

Assume I am in the mall looking for a pair of Nike sneakers with black rubber soles, cross-trainers, red leather uppers, and black-and-white laces in a size 8.5......it is POSSIBLE that I might find a pair if I spend 30 minutes going through every unmarked box of Nike cross-trainers in every store.

Now assume that I have to PAY $5 every time I look in a box at any store. The athletic shoe store has a whole wall of boxes, and ten of those boxes are all labeled "Nike Crosstrainers" and the black-and-white drawing on the side of each box *resembles* the shoes I'm looking for.

On the opposite wall, there are five boxes labeled "Nike Crosstrainers", labeled "red/white/black"....they all have a picture on the box of the shoe I want, AND the boxes are marked 8.5. At $5 a box, which boxes do you think I'd open first?

Now....if there were no boxes labeled 8.5 with the picture on it, THEN...... sure, I'd probably take risk the $5 to look in the ten boxes on the possibility that I might find a pair of black-soled, red uppers with black & white laces in size 8.5....because now that's my best prospect to find them.

To some of you, it may be worth the "$5 a box" just for the thrill of "finding" the needle in the haystack, and if you've got the money to blow for that thrill, have at it. What you consider a good time might be the same thing that I consider a waste of time and vice versa. To each his own.

 

[fire&ice]

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On 1/8/2004 5:47:31 PM aljdewey wrote:

The fact is.....even stones that have all the right *complete* numbers still aren't guaranteed to be performers. blockquote>


The is IMHO is crux of my whole reasoning. Have you read NI post in the room that shalt not be named? Basically it all boils down to eyes. That is why I said I wouldn't buy a drop ship. (well, maybe this one as I really am intrigued). If I was comfortable with the GIA numbers & comfortable with the jeweler's/vendors eyes, I wouldn't necessarily require all the other info.

The shoe thing got me confused. But then, you *really* don't want to know about my methods to buy shoes. Because, we all know they are perfect.

Actually, they are perfect for me because I have such *weird* feet. I need to go to a very high end shoe store with knowledgable staff that can bring me out *every* shoe that may be within my parameters to try on...OR...go to one of those Warehouse places that carry designer shoes & sticks all the sizes out, wander & try on *every* pair of shoes within my parameters.

 

[caratgirl]

Here I come back from a grueling day of work, and this thread still lives!

By the way Aljdewey, I have agreed multiple times above that the newbies should stay away from the stone above, unless they like the challenge.

(and said in a nice tone of voice)

Fire&Ice, I swear, I'm just about ready to arm wrestle you for that stone! I would love to have it as a pendant

. Too bad I just can't spend any more after the holidays.

 

[fire&ice]

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On 1/8/2004 6:47:47 PM caratgirl wrote:

Fire&Ice, I swear, I'm just about ready to arm wrestle you for that stone! I would love to have it as a pendant

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I'm glad you're intrigued too. Why aren't you guys? Honestly, maybe I haven't worked my way around PS enough - but I wasn't challenging - I meant it - Find me a stone this tight. Maybe I need to get out more; but, I've never seen this tight a mm.

And, as the day ends - I *definitely* think a poll is in order.

Just trying to keep Mara interested. And, I'm only reason why I think we could take Ben now is because he is sleep deprived. Don't underestimate the man behind the pretty pic.

Edited to add: CAN WE GET TALKING ABOUT SHOES AGAIN....sorry, polls kept entering into my head.

Actually, I think it would be an interesting thread about "how do you buy" & please no POLLS.

 

[Mara]

What would intrigue me more is if I could see a SARIN and IDEALSCOPE picture of the stone.

Damn is that my caps lock again? I just don't know how to CONTROL that thing!

 

[fire&ice]

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On 1/8/2004 7:02:52 PM Mara wrote:


What would intrigue me more is if I could see a SARIN and IDEALSCOPE picture of the stone.

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I concur. But seriously, what is up with the tightness of the mm. My concern lies is the fact that - are these things being cut by laser/machines? I'm on board with computer models examining the best way to cut - but a machine cutting the stone - not for me. Oh the romance!

 

[Mara]

Our new ACA has tight dimensions as well....dunno how they cut the thing though.

 

[caratgirl]

Ah ha! Just read that shoe thing more carefully - I think it just needs a little something more....

All of the shoes that are properly marked cost $100...and the unmarked boxes cost $20, with a 95% chance of being the correct shoe...

I know, just silly...but that kind of day. I promise, last post on this topic.

I didn't do the math for the above, so no one hold my feet to the fire (disclaimer, as one grips the martini tightly).

 

[Mara]

Yes but in this original case being discussed, the shoes are not $100 vs $20 but rather more like $100 vs $80. Is that $20 worth the guesswork?

$100 vs $20...hell even I would start opening shoe boxes!

 

[aljdewey]

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On 1/8/2004 6:47:47 PM caratgirl wrote:





By the way Aljdewey, I have agreed multiple times above that the newbies should stay away from the stone above, unless they like the challenge.

(and said in a nice tone of voice)----------------

Right-o, Caratgirl......and my random thought wasn't aimed at you specifically. Just expounding on the discussion in general......and said in a VERY nice and sincere tone of voice with a smile

 

[aljdewey]

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On 1/8/2004 7:16:50 PM caratgirl wrote:





Ah ha! Just read that shoe thing more carefully - I think it just needs a little something more....

All of the shoes that are properly marked cost $100...and the unmarked boxes cost $20, with a 95% chance of being the correct shoe...

I know, just silly...but that kind of day. I promise, last post on this topic.

I didn't do the math for the above, so no one hold my feet to the fire (disclaimer, as one grips the martini tightly).

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NAHHHHH.......

.....not holding your feet to the fire at all........but please share that martini! LOL

Tit for tat, though........(I just love a good debate, so please don't promise your last post if this thought compels another from you!).......

The stone Cherry asked about is $4600.....about $400-600 lower than other comparable documented stones. That's a 15% break, not the 80% off your analogy notes. Now, if you want to tell me Cherry's stone dropped in price to $980.....NOW you'd have my attention. Then, yes, it might be worth investing a bit of time and $150 in appraisal fees to save 80%!!!!!!

And a last note......if I don't get my own martini pretty soon, I'll probably have to point out how I don't think the chances are as high as 95% that the stone is that good.....I think that's waaaaay high. But that's me.

Now could someone please hand me the olives?/idealbb/images/smilies/naughty.gif/idealbb/images/smilies/naughty.gif/idealbb/images/smilies/naughty.gif

 

[caratgirl]

Hahhah...okay then

. Finished a good meal, and just buzzed enough to continue...just kidding! By the way, on an off topic, has anyone noticed the last week (in theory after the Christmas rush), that NO experts are chiming in to most of the postings here? CutNut dropped in for a few and Dave Atlas, but as far as critiquing or adding to any of the posts, I've seen nada. Are they all on vacation, do you guys think? Maybe I'm wrong, since I don't have time to read all the posts usually....

 

[aljdewey]

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On 1/8/2004 10:00:09 PM caratgirl wrote:




By the way, on an off topic, has anyone noticed the last week (in theory after the Christmas rush), that NO experts are chiming in to most of the postings here? CutNut dropped in for a few and Dave Atlas, but as far as critiquing or adding to any of the posts, I've seen nada. Are they all on vacation, do you guys think? Maybe I'm wrong, since I don't have time to read all the posts usually....

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Don't know. If I were any of them having just endured the xmas rush, I think I'd be off in a corner drinking HEAVILY by now. Seriously, they are probably pushing to stock the next wave of stones for the Valentines rush.

I think I heard a few of them are fairly ill with the flu, too! Bummer.