Help with stone selection

[gemnewbie]

I''m hoping someone on here can help me with my stone selection process. I''ve identified a tenitive selection for my budget in the $13,000 range. It''s a 1.80 round stone, H SI 1, with an AGS report that i''ve linked below. I''ve run the numbers in the HCA, and came up with a 1.1, which I understand is a great score. I''ve looked at the other available reports, including the ASET image, Hearts, Arrows, DiamXray, and microscopic. They all look very pretty, but quite frankly I have no idea what I''m looking at!

Here are some specific questions:

1. Can someone help me interpret the results from these reports?

2. Unlike the GIA reports I''ve looked at, I don''t see anything about inclusions on the AGS report. How do I know if this stone has an inclusions I should be concerned about?

3. Should I consider lowering the color quality to I and getting a larger stone? If so, how much larger could I go for the same price (assuming everything else being roughly equal) and will the color difference be noticeable?

4. Is this stone a good value for the price/qualtiy? Can anyone suggest other stones that may be a beter value?

Here''s a link to the stone information, and many thanks in advance for your help.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/6345/

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 10/17/2009 12:49:47 PM
Author:gemnewbie
I'm hoping someone on here can help me with my stone selection process. I've identified a tenitive selection for my budget in the $13,000 range. It's a 1.80 round stone, H SI 1, with an AGS report that i've linked below. I've run the numbers in the HCA, and came up with a 1.1, which I understand is a great score. I've looked at the other available reports, including the ASET image, Hearts, Arrows, DiamXray, and microscopic. They all look very pretty, but quite frankly I have no idea what I'm looking at!

Here are some specific questions:

1. Can someone help me interpret the results from these reports? Its a lovely diamond of excellent cut, not cut to the ultra strict precision of a hearts and arrows but a super cut nevertheless. If you aren't bothered about having a ' picture perfect' h&a patterned diamond then this one is a definite contender.

2. Unlike the GIA reports I've looked at, I don't see anything about inclusions on the AGS report. How do I know if this stone has an inclusions I should be concerned about? I think the inclusions didn't scan when the report was uploaded as they are noted but not visible on the clarity plot, ask Jon at GOG.

3. Should I consider lowering the color quality to I and getting a larger stone? If so, how much larger could I go for the same price (assuming everything else being roughly equal) and will the color difference be noticeable? It depends on what else is available and of course when dealing with SI clarity grades whether the diamond is eyeclean. An I colour will still be very white if well cut but if you are unsure go and view some AGS0 Peerless from Jareds if you have one nearby of similar size and I colour, this will give you a better idea of your colour preferences.

4. Is this stone a good value for the price/qualtiy? Looks like a lovely diamond from an excellent vendor who is also competitively priced.

Can anyone suggest other stones that may be a beter value?

Here's a link to the stone information, and many thanks in advance for your help.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/6345/

 

[ct-appr]

I agree. Looks like a very nice diamond at a reasonable price.

 

[tyty333]

If you are truly serious about that stone I would go ahead and reserve it. They tend to disapear around here once
someone shows interest.

I did a quick look at in-house well cut stones and couldnt find anything close to that price.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 10/17/2009 1:20:56 PM
Author: tyty333
If you are truly serious about that stone I would go ahead and reserve it. They tend to disapear around here once
someone shows interest.

I did a quick look at in-house well cut stones and couldnt find anything close to that price.

Good point, I would contact GOG and put it on hold in case of poaching lurkers.

 

[gemnewbie]

Lorilei and others, thanks for your comments.

Can you please explain for me why it doesn''t meet the hearts and arrows criterea? If someone could help me understand the various pictures, that would me most helpful.

Also, can anyone answer my question about color? Would I notice any difference if the color was lowered to "I". And, how much of a larger comparable stone could I get if I was willing to accept an I color grade as opposed to H?.

 

[stone-cold11]

On H&A and optical symm http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=education-precision

On IS/ASET images, DiamXray is similar to IS http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=education-performance

Color this video. http://vimeo.com/3288695

Note the color perception can be different from real life due to the display setting, so only use this as a gauge and if you really want to know you or your partner's color sensitivity, best to go look at stones that are ideally cut and graded by AGS/GIA.

The GOG stone is not H&A because the gap between the V and heart at the 4 o'clock is big, much bigger than the rest, there is also a slight slippage between the 2 halves of the hearts on most of the hearts.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 10/17/2009 2:05:40 PM
Author: gemnewbie
Lorilei and others, thanks for your comments.

Can you please explain for me why it doesn't meet the hearts and arrows criterea? If someone could help me understand the various pictures, that would me most helpful.

Also, can anyone answer my question about color? Would I notice any difference if the color was lowered to 'I'. And, how much of a larger comparable stone could I get if I was willing to accept an I color grade as opposed to H?.

Here is a very basic overview on hearts and arrows patterning. H&A patterning is the result of top cutting and craftmanship resulting in superior optical symmetry, this symmetry is responsible for the hearts and arrows patterning you see which are the internal reflections of the stone. Arrow patterning is seen face up and hearts when the diamond is face down. Optical symmetry, or the h&a patterning is evaluated as shown in the link I posted below. Because a diamond shows a distinct h&a pattern does not mean it meets the strict standards as expected by enthusiasts and experts of this cutting style, the diamond you are considering is an example of this. However if you want a well cut stone and aren't concerned if it isn't a " true" h&a then thats perfectly fine.


So as we know, the diamond is not sold as hearts and arrows,this article will give you a good non complicated introduction to hearts and arrows grading. As to why this diamond isn't h&a the hearts image is the one to look at, you will see some of the hearts are a little uneven with too much space around them but also it is down to the splits or clefts in the hearts which makes this diamond non h&a, if you read the article I linked above you will see this demonstrated in the images. The diamond has longer lower girdle facets which can help cause this, I know Jon from GOG has some cut this way specifically because he and many others like this look of the sharp flashes these types of diamonds can show.

As to the ASET and Idealscope images this link is very helpful, as the diamond in question isn't h&a that has been covered but read the link I posted above for more info on grading h&a. DiamXray is similar to Idealscope which GOG uses.

 

[FancyDiamond]

How does non-perfect hearts & arrows translate to real-life performance? The AGS report shows "ideal" optical performance (including symmmetry), and the HCA score is "perfect", both of which predict ideal light return, fire, and scintillation. In what perceivable aspect is this stone less than ideal?

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 10/17/2009 3:48:23 PM
Author: FancyDiamond
How does non-perfect hearts & arrows translate to real-life performance? The AGS report shows 'ideal' optical performance (including symmmetry), and the HCA score is 'perfect', both of which predict ideal light return, fire, and scintillation. In what perceivable aspect is this stone less than ideal?

Symmetry on the grading report - that refers to lab graded physical symmetry, how well the facets align, table, culet and so on. Optical symmetry is a separate issue. Yes the diamond has the coveted AGS0 cut grade but this is no guarantee of top optical symmetry responsible for h&a patterning. So the diamond in question is most likely going to be a super looking stone but the optical symmetry isn't ' perfect' but if the buyer isn't looking for a h&a diamond then thats not an issue.

HCA computes 4 measurement averages and is used for rejection not selection, it cannot physically see the diamond to predict with any accuracy individual performance nuances of any diamond. It is used to discover which stones score below 2 and are worth further investigation which is then done with images such as Idealscope etc. HCA is a first round elimination tool and should not be used for selection, just to find out from a list of diamonds which are worth further investigation and which are not.

 

[gemnewbie]

Thanks, all for really helpful input. A couple of more questions, please:

1. How much (or slight) would the difference be to the naked eye between a true hearts and arrows diamond and this one?

2. With everything else being equal, how much more would I expect to pay between this diamond (as priced) and a true H&A?

 

[FancyDiamond]

Thank you, Lorelei, for the explanation.

To answer the OP''s 2nd question in a simple way,

Date: 10/17/2009 4:26:49 PM
Author: gemnewbie
Thanks, all for really helpful input. A couple of more questions, please:

1. How much (or slight) would the difference be to the naked eye between a true hearts and arrows diamond and this one?

2. With everything else being equal, how much more would I expect to pay between this diamond (as priced) and a true H&A?

let me give you an example.

WF is selling an ACA 1.71 H SI1 diamond for $14,342. Your GOG 1.80 H SI1 non-H&A diamond costs about $13,372. Assuming the same unit carat cost (just to get a rough estimate of the price difference), an ACA of 1.80 H Si1 diamond will cost at least $15,100. The difference is about $1,725 or 12%.

If I were you, I would no doubt pay the premium to get the best cut, WF ACA or GOG top cut diamond. Why? The diamond you are purchasing is a large one, so it is an important purchase that you do not do too often. You want to get it right with no regrets. I purchased an ACA diamond myself. I know I paid a premium for it, but it is money well spent, and I am very proud of owning it. The diamond makes me feel good just looking at it everyday. I can''t say the same for a lesser cut diamond. This is my own opinion only, and you should do whatever you feel best for yourself.

 

[tyty333]

Date: 10/17/2009 4:26:49 PM
Author: gemnewbie
Thanks, all for really helpful input. A couple of more questions, please:

1. How much (or slight) would the difference be to the naked eye between a true hearts and arrows diamond and this one?

2. With everything else being equal, how much more would I expect to pay between this diamond (as priced) and a true H&A?

Here is the closest diamond I could find to the other one that is an H&A.
http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/Whiteflash-ACA-cut-diamond-2176305.htm

1.71 at $14342 pricescope price. Someone else may be able to give you a formula to produce a figure
but I have to go by what I can find in the data base.

In my opinion, I dont think you will be able to see a difference with the naked eye between a really
well cut diamond non-h&A (the one you found) and an H&A. I think it is more of a mind-clean issue.
For me, well cut non-H&A is good enough but everyone is different.

 

[elle_chris]

Date: 10/17/2009 5:26:28 PM
Author: tyty333

Date: 10/17/2009 4:26:49 PM
Author: gemnewbie

In my opinion, I dont think you will be able to see a difference with the naked eye between a really
well cut diamond non-h&A (the one you found) and an H&A. I think it is more of a mind-clean issue.
For me, well cut non-H&A is good enough but everyone is different.

Totally agree with this.
I own both and can''t tell the difference between my true H&A''s and the ones that are close. As the stone is a very well cut diamond, the chances of you seeing a difference is pretty slim to none.

But like tyty said, for some it''s a mind clean issue just like color or clarity could be. In this case, I think you''d get a killer stone minus the premium of a true H&A, and only the experts that actually deal in hearts and arrow stones would be able to tell. And even then, not once set and on the finger.

 

[Lorelei]

Good advice and food for thought from the ladies above. The diamond you are considering is an excellently cut stone gemnewbie but if you would rather have a h&a stone then ask Jon what he has available.