Help with Round Ideal .75 SI2 H

[mc350z]

I''ve been lurking for a while, but very close to taking the plunge and buying a ring now, and any help would be appreciated!

The diamond I''m looking at is:

GIA Certified
Round Brilliant
Measurement: 5.81-5.85 x 3.62mm
Weight: 0.75ct
Color Grade: H
Clairty: SI2
Cut Grade: Excellent
Characterisitics: Crystal
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Very Good
Fluorescence: Medium Blue
Comments: None

Depth: 62.1%
Table: 59%
Girdle: Medium-slightly thick (faceted) 3.5%
Crown Angle: 34
Pavilion Angle: 41.6
Cutlet: None

This is at a B&M store that gets good reviews on this site.

The price I''m quoted is $2000, which for the "exact" 4c spec stone is comparable to Blue Nile. If I look at the same 4c specs on a .74 or .76 stone, the price is a little less comparable. However I''m interested in having it mounted in a tension mount by a designer line they carry, Gelin Abaci, at a good discount off the asking price for the setting versus anywhere I''ve seen it on the net, so buying online doesn''t seem like a great option if I want this specific setting.

I looked at the inclusions with the loupe, the worst of it is visible just below where the table and crown meet in one spot (small black speck), but I was unable to spot it with my naked eye even knowing where it was.

So I suppose my questions boil down to:
I''m curious if this sounds like a good price for this diamond?

Would I find a "better" (inclusions more to the edge?) SI2 if I looked at more, and is it important one way or another with the open back tension setting?

Would a diamond with an excellent symmetry significantly alter the price (or look?)

The HCA program reports this as a 6, is it worth hunting for something lower, will there be a noticeable difference?


Thanks for your help, this is the hardest thing I''ve ever contemplated buying!!, and I''m kinda at the limit of my budget, so I''d like to be sure I''m getting something worthwhile, and not missing something markedly better for only a bit more.

 

[Lorelei]

Pavilion angle is far too steep, I would pass on this one. You can do much better than this diamond, try to look for a pavilion angle of 41 degrees or less.

Here are some numbers you can use as a guide to find a well cut round diamond.

depth - 60 - 62% - although my personal preference is to allow up to 62.4%
table - 54- 57%
crown angle - 34- 35 degrees
pavilion angle - 40.6- 41 degrees
girdle - avoid extremes, look for thin to slightly thick, thin to medium etc
polish and symmetry - very good and above

note - with crown and pavilion angles at the shallower ends ( CA 34- PA 40.6) and steeper ( CA 35- PA 41) check to make sure these angles complement in that particular diamond - eyeballs, Idealscope, trusted vendor input - check as appropriate!
As the above implies, configurations depend on each other. A little give here can still work with a little take there.

From expert John Pollard.

With that said, here's a "Cliff's Notes" for staying near Tolkowsky/ideal angles with GIA reports (their numbers are rounded): A crown angle of 34.0, 34.5 or 35.0 is usually safe with a 40.8 pavilion angle. If pavilion angle = 40.6 lean toward a 34.5-35.0 crown. If pavilion angle = 41 lean toward a 34.0-34.5 crown.

GIA "EX" in cut is great at its heart, but it ranges a bit wider than some people prefer, particularly in deep combinations (pavilion > 41 with crown > 35).

 

[stone-cold11]

Definitely can do better, as Lorelei mentioned before, pavilion is way too steep, it is cut for weight retention and not for optical performance in mind, will look dull in normal viewing conditions, aka. outside of showcase, jewelry lighting conditions.

 

[phoenixgirl]

Yikes, a 6 on the HCA is not ideal in my book, no matter what the GIA calls it.

Factor Grade
Light Return Fair
Fire Fair
Scintillation Fair
Spread
or diameter for weight Very Good
Total Visual Performance 6 - Fair

If you like the prices, reputation, and settings of this store, by all means, work with them, but I don''t think this is the stone for you. What else do they have?

 

[3Rocks]

Let us know how much $$$ you want to spend on the stone and we can throw some suggestions at you. We love to do that.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 6/14/2009 3:31:43 PM
Author: 3Rocks
Let us know how much $$$ you want to spend on the stone and we can throw some suggestions at you. We love to do that.

Its great to see some newer members participate in RT!!

 

[mc350z]

Thanks everyone for the quick responses!

It's very nice to know that I'm justified in thinking that maybe it's not my imagination that the stone could be a bit better.

Lorelei: Thanks for the cheat sheet on the angles, it's nice to see it spelled out!

phoenixgirl: I was surprised where the stone fell on the HCA plot, but it falls within the outline that represents a GIA Ideal, so it's not a put over by the store or anything, just a quirk in the GIA grading it seems. The store (Diamonds Direct for those in the Charlotte area) seems very reasonable, and forthcoming, but there is no list of there stock, so I only saw what was presented to me, but they claim a wide range of stock. I'll get in touch with them monday and put them on the hunt for something better.

3Rocks: If you'd like to offer suggestions I'd love to hear them!

My price range for the stone is really just about $2000. I'm very set on the setting so to speak, it's a Gelin Abaci model TR-164 in 14k White Gold, http://www.gelinabaci.com/html/product_detail.php?id=239 , and it's really just perfect for my soon to be fiancee. The price they are quoting for the ring is a seemingly very reasonable $1000, about $700 less than I was able to spot online.

So given this is the setting that I want, I am capped at $2000 for the stone. (This total, $3000+tax, is already about $500 more than I was planning, but I love the ring, and I know she will!) I'd like to stick in the neighborhood of .75 if possible. It seems on Blue Nile looking at SI2, H, Ideal cuts between .74 and .76, using Lorelei's percentage ranges, I found a .76 that scored a HCA 1.3 with EX polish and symmetry for $2001. Clearly this appears to be a far superior diamond, so it seems they are out there in my price range online at least

Any advice at this point would be great, I'll talk to the store on Monday and let them know the diamond wont work for me, and see what else they can offer or what not.

My big question is this I suppose: Would the price rise substantially, all other criteria being the same (SI2, H, .75ct, Ideal Cut, VG+ polish and symmetry), if I insisted on a stone that scored a good HCA number? Will the angles make that much difference in pricing? Is this an easter egg hunt for the right one, or a matter of paying more for the right one? I hate to be so price concious about this purchase, but there is a finite limit in reality, despite the untold riches I'd be willing to spend on her!

Thanks again for the help!

 

[3Rocks]

Date: 6/14/2009 4:11:15 PM
Author: Lorelei
Its great to see some newer members participate in RT!!

Nothing expert, I just love to have a reason to seek it out and present one to the forum. You know what I mean...

 

[stone-cold11]

It is an easter egg hunt. Price do not vary according to HCA score but to lab report cut grades which is why it is so fun.

 

[stone-cold11]

This might be good.

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-SI2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1140847.asp

If interested, check with JA to see if eye-clean and request an idealscope image.

 

[Lula]

I love Gelin Abaci settings! Will the jeweler set your diamond if you don''t buy the diamond from them?

 

[mc350z]

Stone-Cold: Thanks for confirming that it is indeed an easter egg hunt. The stone you found sounds great! They are definitely out there in much nicer form than what I''ve seen. Thanks!

SaraPJ: I''ll call them tomorrow and find out if they will set my own acquired diamond, they might, but then again, with the discount offered on the setting, they might not, we shall see!

Thanks everyone! Great advice so far!

 

[mc350z]

A bit of an update on my diamond hunt, I talked with the store, and they seem as if they''d be willing to mount a diamond I purchased of the internet into my desired setting, but they don''t know why I''d go that route.

They hunted up a second diamond that scores a lot better on the HCA at 3.9 than the previous diamond at 6. (I''ve not been in to see it in person yet though)

The specs are:

GIA Certified
Round Brilliant
Measurement: 5.65-5.68 x 3.53mm
Weight: 0.70ct
Color Grade: F
Clairty: SI2
Cut Grade: Excellent
Characterisitics: Crystal, Feather, Cloud
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Very Good
Fluorescence: Medium Blue
Comments: None

Depth: 62.3%
Table: 57%
Girdle: Slightly Thick, Faceted (faceted) 4.0%
Crown Angle: 35.5
Pavilion Angle: 41.0
Cutlet: None

And the price is about what the first one was. I get the feeling that this store has limited inventory in the size/price range I''m looking for. The internet really spoils you with lots of great choices...

This brings up a good followup question now:

Ordering off a site like blue nile, what are my chances of getting an eye clean SI2? Would I be better off compromising on another factor to go SI1 or VS2 at the same price point to get a better chance at a clean (enough) looking stone?

I found one on blue nile, as follows:

GIA Certified
Round Brilliant
Measurement: 5.83-5.89 x 3.61mm
Weight: 0.76ct
Color Grade: G
Clairty: SI2
Cut Grade: Excellent
Characterisitics: Crystal
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Fluorescence: None
Comments: None

Depth: 34.5%
Table: 56%
Girdle: Slightly Thin - Slightly thick (faceted) 3.5%
Crown Angle: 34.5
Pavilion Angle: 40.8
Cutlet: None

This scores a 1.3, right in the AGS 0 range, it''s the same price as the first one, and other than maybe being iffy as an SI2 for eye clean (??) sight unseen, I''m not sure why I wouldn''t go for this diamond?

Has anyone had any experience with returns at Blue Nile, is it easy and straight forward if I''m not happy?

This is so nerve racking! But thanks for all the help!

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 6/17/2009 1:24:06 PM
Author: mc350z
A bit of an update on my diamond hunt, I talked with the store, and they seem as if they''d be willing to mount a diamond I purchased of the internet into my desired setting, but they don''t know why I''d go that route.

They hunted up a second diamond that scores a lot better on the HCA at 3.9 than the previous diamond at 6. (I''ve not been in to see it in person yet though)

The specs are:

GIA Certified
Round Brilliant
Measurement: 5.65-5.68 x 3.53mm
Weight: 0.70ct
Color Grade: F
Clairty: SI2
Cut Grade: Excellent
Characterisitics: Crystal, Feather, Cloud
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Very Good
Fluorescence: Medium Blue
Comments: None

Depth: 62.3%
Table: 57%
Girdle: Slightly Thick, Faceted (faceted) 4.0%
Crown Angle: 35.5
Pavilion Angle: 41.0
Cutlet: None

And the price is about what the first one was. I get the feeling that this store has limited inventory in the size/price range I''m looking for. The internet really spoils you with lots of great choices...

This brings up a good followup question now:

Ordering off a site like blue nile, what are my chances of getting an eye clean SI2? Would I be better off compromising on another factor to go SI1 or VS2 at the same price point to get a better chance at a clean (enough) looking stone?

I found one on blue nile, as follows:

GIA Certified
Round Brilliant
Measurement: 5.83-5.89 x 3.61mm
Weight: 0.76ct
Color Grade: G
Clairty: SI2
Cut Grade: Excellent
Characterisitics: Crystal
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Fluorescence: None
Comments: None

Depth: 34.5%
Table: 56%
Girdle: Slightly Thin - Slightly thick (faceted) 3.5%
Crown Angle: 34.5
Pavilion Angle: 40.8
Cutlet: None

This scores a 1.3, right in the AGS 0 range, it''s the same price as the first one, and other than maybe being iffy as an SI2 for eye clean (??) sight unseen, I''m not sure why I wouldn''t go for this diamond?

Has anyone had any experience with returns at Blue Nile, is it easy and straight forward if I''m not happy?

This is so nerve racking! But thanks for all the help!

The second diamond above looks good, the one that scores 1.3 on the HCA. You would need to check very carefully it is eyeclean though.

 

[stone-cold11]

I would say look around in JA, they provide pictures, IS images, take a look at their diamond before they send it out to, BN do not do it that way.

BN eye-clean standard varies as it depends on who is holding the stone, there have been several occurances where supposedly eye-clean BN stone turn out not so.

 

[mc350z]

Well, Big news!

I went back to the local store, they sat down with me and went through a few stones, and I picked a winner!

The diamond is as follows:

GIA Certified
Round Brilliant
Measurement: 6.09x6.12x3.73
Weight: 0.84ct
Color Grade: I
Clairty: SI1
Cut Grade: Excellent
Characterisitics: Feather, Cloud
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excelent
Fluorescence: None
Comments: None

Depth: 61.1%
Table: 56%
Girdle: Thin - Medium (faceted) 3%
Crown Angle: 34.0
Pavilion Angle: 41.0
Cutlet: None


Scores a 1.3 on the HCA, Ex Light Return, Ex Fire, VG Scintillation, VG Spread

Got to look at it through the ideal scope and wonderful hearts and arrows, I looked at a very similar AGS 0 stone with a HAC score of 2.5 but the hearts were alright but the arrows were a mess, so a very easy pass.

To me, this diamond was "loupe clean" even, I could not spot the inclusions for the life of me through the table, just barley through the pavilion. The color is very nice for an I, next to an F I was looking at, it was defiantly there, but from the table it''s white, and from the pavilion there is just the faintest hint, thats not really noticeable by itself.

And to boot, it was only about $250 more than the original stone with my desired setting and all.

I''m very thrilled, thanks so much for your help! (and if need be, any last minute cautions, I only have a deposit at this point, so I can still change my mind monday)

Periscope has been a wonderful help! I''ll post photos of the finished ring in a few weeks when I get it back!

 

[stone-cold11]

Congrats. Everything looks all right to me from the info you presented.

Good Luck.

 

[Lorelei]

It looks great, many congrats!!!!!!!!!