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Help! Which to buy?!?!

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seoulmanjr

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 27, 2005
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I am choosing between the following two round center diamonds for a three stone setting (.5 carat sidestones) on a platinum band with four channel set diamonds on each side of the three stone setting. Everything else except what is listed (polish, florescence, symmetry, etc) is graded (GIA) the same for these two stones. The carat and price difference between the two is so close as to be meaningless to me, but I thought I'd include them in case it helps you give me some good advice. :-) I'm shopping at bluenile.com for these.

Basically, does an ideal cut vs a very good cut trump two color grades difference? Should I really be concerned that an SI2 will look bad to the naked eye? I went to some brick and mortar shops int he mall to see what diamonds of different grades looked like in person, but all they had were crummy stones that they were probably lying about when it came to the grading (no-name grading companies that were trying to pass off I1s or I2s as SI2s or better and K colored stones as J or I, in my opinion). My gut feeling is that these two are close enough that I should just go for the E colored stone, but I've never bought a diamond before and I really want it to sparkle for her.

1. H, Ideal Cut (Depth: 61.6%, Table: 57%), SI2, 1.15 carats, $4635
2. E, Very Good Cut (Depth: 61.2%, Table: 60%), SI2, 1.14 carats,$4762

Which would you buy? Help! I want to order the ring sometime today or tomorrow! :-)

Thanks!

peace,
~Ben~
 
bump - anyone?

I think that I''m going to go with the E color diamond instead of the H even though its very good instead of ideal cut. Three color grades seems like a damn big difference all else considered.

Please give me some input! I''m stressing over this -- it''s going to cost more than my car!
23.gif


peace,
~Ben~
 
Call Blue Nile and ask them for Sarin reports on both diamonds. Then post the Sarin numbers on here and we can consider that data along with everything else you''ve posted.

What color are the sidestones going to be?

My initial reaction is to go for the H diamond. I don''t like large tables and I have a G diamond that looks very white to me.
 
What BN calls "Ideal Cut" has little to do with brilliance... unless all other folk at GIA and AGS got it wrong.

Are these clean ? How come E and H are priced so close ? IMO, it is not the arbitrary cut labels but the "eye clean" quality of these that makes the difference in price and this only the seller (or whoever holds these stones) can know.

Better detail (pictures) comes for some premium (say, for this).

The BN setting with sidestones comes at about $2500... not very different from what WF might provide aparently.


Anyway, forget Whiteflash if you wish - it just has this easy search engine to help find examples. I am just trying to say that buying SI2 without seeing them sounds allot like an adventure to me.
 
I really appreciate the advice. The reason that I was going with Blue Nile was that they have the exact setting that I''ve been looking for which I haven''t found anywhere else so far (http://www.bluenile.com/product_zoom.asp?oid=5120&zoom=1&filter_id=1&set_shape=RD). The setting and sidestones will total to about $2990. I want to get a center stone under $5000 because I''m really stretching the maximum of my budget as it is and my CC has an $8k limit.
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I am a bit nervous about getting an SI2 sight unseen, but all I care about is if it looks good and she''s happy with it. Other than me and the appraiser I take it to, noone is ever going to look at this thing through a loupe. In fact, even with the naked eye, my guess is that 12" away is about as close as anyone is ever going to look at it. Do the charts of the locations, size, and types of inclusions on the reports I posted links to above give you any indication if this will be "eye-clean" or not? Is the color difference between an H and an E substantial and noticable to the naked eye?

Thanks again!

peace,
~Ben~
 
I would not guess the "eye clean" quality of SI2s from the clarity plot. For once, the plots do not indicate if inclusions are colorless or tinted (black) and that makes allot of difference. In both those stones there's "stuff" under the table and it is impossible to tell if those are visible or not.

It is true enough that few would inspect the ring close up to notice details, but it so happens that the wearer of the ring is the one big exception. 'Guess she is the one that counts anyway.

Is that your fav setting or your girl's ?


About color: from E to H there's a bit of distance, but H is still no-excuse colorless in mounting. Any difference between these two would be visible while the stones are loose. While set... it becomes really subtle. Especially since the diamonds are not huger. If the cut is great, one would need to know what to look for to spot the difference.

IMO, as usual
 
Speaking of three-stone ring with paved shank... How about this one:

whiteflashfinal.jpg


That one contains a half carat center with 20 point sides, btw. I do not know the cost of the custom work, but this is dutchgirl's ring and she could probably tell you this via PM...
 
Dear Ben,

Just a quick note to wish you well.

This site has a focus on cut, and I've developed a sympathy to it, as well. I'm reluctant to go all the way out, paying a premium for it (like you!), but -- call it superstition (cause putting a "very good" cut right next to an ideal cut...you may be challenged to know the better rated one), but having invested in a positively rated HCA tested replacement engagement ring for my wife...she likes it, and so do I.

I'm tired...looked at BN...to see what kind of options I could find there with an AGS cert, so you can know how well it's cut. You'd considered paying a premium with the ideal cut over the "very good" to get some assurances of the look. I found you'd have to pay again a premium to that, looking at Blue Nile's selection (up to $5300 for an H SI 2) to see some AGS options. Problem is, running them both through the HCA, I don't like (or am not in love) with either, only scoring Very Good on the HCA, despite possibly being AGS0 in today's world.

At $5500 and change, going to the search by cut option here, you'll have a couple to look at, but this doesn't solve your setting problem.

I would go back to what Cath says above: Call Blue Nile and ask them for Sarin reports on both diamonds. Then post the Sarin numbers on here and we can consider that data along with everything else you've posted.

If this strategy succeeds, and it may, you can stay with GIA, and still get a well cut stone. Maybe if you get someone smart on the phone, you can just give them your requirements (H, SI 2, around 1.15 carats, and HCA score under 2) and let them do the work. Anyway, I'd say it's worth a try.

Best wishes!
 
The setting is her favorite - we''ve gone together and looked at a lot and she is sure that the three stone setting is what she wants, but even when she sees a nice one, hints that it would be better with some channel set diamonds in the band on each side, so I''m positive that this is what she really wants.

I really don''t know what to expect ordering an SI2 or anything else for that matter since all of the B&M stores that I''ve gone to seem to have crummy diamonds certified by places I''ve never heard of. For all I know what they are calling an I, SI2 is really a K, I2, ya know? I was shown a "J" that was probably closer to a very yellow M or lower and "SI3s" that were what I imagined an I2 would look like. When I see a cert other than GIA or IGI or a place I''ve heard of and whose standards I''ve familiarized myself with doing research online, I just assume that they farmed the cert for their stone out to some two bit operation that grades them higher than they should be so they can sucker someone in the local mall with it.

I suppose if it comes and I or she isn''t happy with it, we''ll just use the 30 day money back guarantee they advertise to get a different ring/stone. I told her the other day that when I give it to her if she doesn''t like it exactly as it is, to tell me so that we can swap the stone out and that its not like my feelings would be hurt - I want her to be happy with it.

Inclusions aside, for the two stones that I list above, do you think there''s a very substantial difference in the quality of the cut (depth/table/etc)?

Thanks again! This is helping me a LOT!

~Ben~
 
Date: 4/27/2005 2:43:17 PM
Author: seoulmanjr

....Inclusions aside, for the two stones that I list above, do you think there''s a very substantial difference in the quality of the cut (depth/table/etc)?

Thanks again! This is helping me a LOT!

~Ben~
Click to expand...
I''m hoping our posts crossed in time. Otherwise, I personally would be unable to comment, except to re-encourage you to ask for more information. If you haven''t been turned down, why not...it doesn''t cost you anything to ask. If they should say...no...nothing wrong with your strategy at all. Otherwise, I would recommend you try to save yourself some time & trouble up front, populating this.

Best,
 
I called BN and they are going to e-mail me with the Sarin reports this afternoon hopefully. I also requested an actual visual by someone and a report on the visibility of the inclusions on each.

More and more I''m thinking that the E stone is the way to go and that the cuts are pretty close to one another. I tried to go to HCA and get the numbers there for each, but since I don''t know the angles, I''m not sure if they are right. I''ll post the Sarin report info when I get it! Thanks again!

peace,
~Ben~
 
Date: 4/27/2005 2:52:23 PM
Author: Regular Guy

I''m hoping our posts crossed in time. Otherwise, I personally would be unable to comment, except to re-encourage you to ask for more information. If you haven''t been turned down, why not...it doesn''t cost you anything to ask.
Click to expand...
Agreed. There''s not enough information right now to tell you more about the quality of cut. We''ll need the Sarin reports to comment further.

Regarding SI2, you can also call Blue Nile and ask if the diamonds are eyeclean. I can''t say you''ll get the most expert opinion, but it can''t hurt to ask the question.
 
Here is what I got from HCA (left the crown and pavillion angle numbers that came up default in for lack of anything better and just entered the depth and table numbers I have):

E / SI2 / 1.14
Light Return Excellent
Fire Excellent
Scintillation Excellent
Spread Very Good
Total Visual Performance 1.3 - Excellent within TIC range

H / SI2 / 1.15
Light Return Excellent
Fire Excellent
Scintillation Excellent
Spread Very Good
Total Visual Performance 0.6 - Excellent within TIC range

I''ll post Sarin info when it comes. Thanks!

peace,
~Ben~
 
Our posts were once again ships passing in the night... I asked for all of the aforementioned info and for a report on if they''re eyeclean.

peace,
~Ben~
 
Date: 4/27/2005 3:15:7 PM
Author: seoulmanjr
Here is what I got from HCA (left the crown and pavillion angle numbers that came up default in for lack of anything better and just entered the depth and table numbers I have):
Click to expand...
This doesn''t mean anything ... that''s just the best possible result for the numbers you have.
 
Great, look forward to seeing the additional info!

Just a note on the HCA, when you leave the default crown/pavillion angles you''ll almost always get a good score. The crown/pavillion angles are what will really determine the HCA results.
 
Here is what Blue Nile got back to me with (below). When he gets the Sarins and sends them to me tomorrow, I''ll post them, but this eye-clean report certainly has me leaning toward the H big time. I guess that''s why the E was in the same price range.

Thanks again all!

peace,
~Ben~


Dear Ben,

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you this afternoon. It was a busy day here.


I heard back on both diamonds regarding the visible inclusions. LD00377127, 1.15 H Si2 is completely EyeClean and a very nice stone. Unfortunately the E Si2, LD00259714 is not clean to the naked eye. There is a visible black inclusion in the center of that stone.


I received the Sarin report for the non EyeClean E color stone, but I am still waiting for the Sarin for the H color. Hopefully that will have come in tomorrow morning by the time I arrive. I will let you know as soon as I get it.


Do let me know if I can be of any further assistance to you.


Sincerely,
Brandon
 
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