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HELP! To buy or not!?! AGS # provided.

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kerensky15

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 2, 2010
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Hello all,

Long time reader, first time poster. I am on the brink of purchasing an engagement stone. I''ve researched and looked at all the major sites (BN, BG, GoG, Whiteflash etc). I currently have a piece on hold with BG and was about to place the deposit until I heard back from my cousin about his previously purchased diamond from BN.

My cousin was engaged at one time, but unfortunately it did not work out. He had purchased a lovely piece from BN. Here are the specs of this particular piece...His original purchasing price was somewhere in the avenue of $9-10k for this stone. Everything looks good and I was quite shocked at his specs (particularly the color and clarity grade), but when I plugged the numbers into the Holloway Cut Advisor (HCA), the score was above a "3" with all "Very Good" ratings down the line. [Confirm this please, as it was my first time messing around with the HCA] Here is the AGS report information.

AGS #: 2707401
Report Type:Diamond Quality Document
Shape and Style:Round Brilliant
Measurements:6.86 – 6.91 x 4.25mm
Cut Grade:AGS Ideal 0
Polish:Ideal
Symmetry:Ideal
Proportions:Ideal
Color Grade:AGS 1.5 (G)
Clarity Grade:AGS 0 (IF)
Carat Weight:1.225
Fluorescence:Inert

Table:57.0%



Crown Angle:34.0



Crown Height:14.6%



Girdle:Faceted, 1.2% to 1.7%



Pavilion Angle:41.2



Pavilion Depth:43.6%



Total Depth:61.9%



Cutlet:Pointed



The current stone I have on hold with BG scored a "0.9" in contrast. It is a BG Signature H&A 1.26 ct, J color, SI1. As you can see, when compared to my cousin''s specs, this one has a far lesser Color and Clarity. But...the HCA score is awesome. The price of this BG stone is $6084. My cousin''s stone is $8000 (flat) and he''s throwing in the setting for free. If it wasn''t for the HCA 3+ raiting, obviously I''d be all over my cousin''s stone.

So basically I am deciding between the two. $8000 v. $6084. The current setting is a platinum band with .30 ct worth around it (I don''t know the setting style yet) He said he spent in the avenue of $2000 for the setting alone. I am not as concerned about the price per say...I am just worried about the quality of my cousin''s piece. On paper, it is awesome. I was just very surprised to find it produced a HCA score of 3+ and this worried me. I also went a step further and plugged in my cousin''s specs to see the current market value. On sites such as BN and WF, a stone of the same size, color, and clarity have prices ranging from $10,500 - $13,500. I did not check their HCA score though.

So...with all this said, I welcome any suggestions, recommendations, thoughts, etc you all may have. BG is currently awaiting my deposit for the 1.26 rock I have on hold with them. I don''t have a lot of time and I am pretty much set on the BG or my cousin''s piece. Thank you all for your assistance in this matter and decision.
 
Hi Kerensky

The BN stone is scoring that way because of the pavilion angle, it could be a pretty diamond but I doubt it is up to the standards of the BG stone. It could be an option of course but personally I would stick to the BG diamond for various reasons, plus you get all the benefits and protection of buying from a vendor than you would get from a relative. Also I wouldn't pay 8k for the other ring, if you want it see if you can negotiate the price.
 
Date: 3/4/2010 3:04:16 AM
Author: Lorelei
Hi Kerensky

The BN stone is scoring that way because of the pavilion angle, it could be a pretty diamond but I doubt it is up to the standards of the BG stone. It could be an option of course but personally I would stick to the BG diamond for various reasons, plus you get all the benefits and protection of buying from a vendor than you would get from a relative. Also I wouldn''t pay 8k for the other ring, if you want it see if you can negotiate the price.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the response Lorelei! So the pavilion angle is really that bad? Another poster replied to my previously screwed up post (half of it cut out) and said they reason my cousin''s stone is score that high is due to the fact that it is older and under an older system? I was a bit confused to his answer.

For the price though, what do you think? Is it not worth $8000.00? It''s D v J (BG) color, and IF v SI1 (BG) clarity. I''ve kept up with your advice and recommendations to others throughout the years, so your recommendation to me holds a lot of weight. I really like the BG stone, and as you say, the benefits and protection as well as ''upgrade'' policy with them is superb.

Thanks again.
 
Date: 3/4/2010 3:10:57 AM
Author: kerensky15






Date: 3/4/2010 3:04:16 AM
Author: Lorelei
Hi Kerensky

The BN stone is scoring that way because of the pavilion angle, it could be a pretty diamond but I doubt it is up to the standards of the BG stone. It could be an option of course but personally I would stick to the BG diamond for various reasons, plus you get all the benefits and protection of buying from a vendor than you would get from a relative. Also I wouldn't pay 8k for the other ring, if you want it see if you can negotiate the price.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the response Lorelei! So the pavilion angle is really that bad? Another poster replied to my previously screwed up post (half of it cut out) and said they reason my cousin's stone is score that high is due to the fact that it is older and under an older system? I was a bit confused to his answer.

For the price though, what do you think? Is it not worth $8000.00? It's D v J (BG) color, and IF v SI1 (BG) clarity. I've kept up with your advice and recommendations to others throughout the years, so your recommendation to me holds a lot of weight. I really like the BG stone, and as you say, the benefits and protection as well as 'upgrade' policy with them is superb.

Thanks again.
Click to expand...

The pavilion isn't that bad, this is what is affecting the HCA score. If you play around with the HCA and reduce the pavilion angle, you will see the score improve. As to the diamond itself, it could be fine if the overall cutting precision is good ( for example the pavilion angle average is close to 41.2 or less all the way around the stone), if the cut isn't tight and the pavilion is swinging out to be more than 41.2 then it could show leakage but without images we have no way to tell. I am not sure what you were told concerning the pavilion angle and the lab report type....It is possible the diamond has the older AGS report Diamond Quality Document compared to the recent Platinum report but thats not an issue.

I personally think 8k is too much to pay for this ring, bearing in mind secondary market values, it is usual to only recoup around 30 - 50% of what was originally paid, I would think a reasonable price for the ring is around 4- 6k personally. You could select an appraiser and ask their opinion on a suitable price for this ring if you wanted to buy it, that would fair to both of you.

Thanks for your very kind words, I greatly appreciate it!!!!

Here is a very useful article on reselling diamonds which might help you, the link doesn't seem to be working at the moment as I am getting an error message but it might work later on,

http://journal.pricescope.com/Articles/66/1/A-consumer%e2%80%99s-guide-to-reselling-diamonds.aspx
 
The 41.2 could be fine - it's all averaged. Buy yourself an IS (trumps HCA) and ask to take a look if you want confirmation either way.



Your cousin is asking too much for his ring. He'd never be able to sell the ring for 8k to anyone else second-hand. If you're looking to do him a favour, by all means, but keep in mind it's not a fair asking price. That said, it's a big step up in colour and clarity from the BGD, so if you're not looking for a superideal H&A and the IS shows good performance it's something to consider.


ETA: in your OP you state that your cousin's stone is a G, in the next post it's a D?
 
Date: 3/4/2010 3:29:31 AM
Author: yssie
The 41.2 could be fine - it''s all averaged. Buy yourself an IS (trumps HCA) and ask to take a look if you want confirmation either way.



Your cousin is asking too much for his ring. He''d never be able to sell the ring for 8k to anyone else second-hand. If you''re looking to do him a favour, by all means, but keep in mind it''s not a fair asking price. That said, it''s a big step up in colour and clarity from the BGD, so if you''re not looking for a superideal H&A and the IS shows good performance it''s something to consider.


ETA: in your OP you state that your cousin''s stone is a G, in the next post it''s a D?
Click to expand...
I think its a typo Yssie, I looked it up and the stone is a G.
 
Ah - cheers Lorelei
26.gif
 
Date: 3/4/2010 3:29:31 AM
Author: yssie
The 41.2 could be fine - it''s all averaged. Buy yourself an IS (trumps HCA) and ask to take a look if you want confirmation either way.



Your cousin is asking too much for his ring. He''d never be able to sell the ring for 8k to anyone else second-hand. If you''re looking to do him a favour, by all means, but keep in mind it''s not a fair asking price. That said, it''s a big step up in colour and clarity from the BGD, so if you''re not looking for a superideal H&A and the IS shows good performance it''s something to consider.


ETA: in your OP you state that your cousin''s stone is a G, in the next post it''s a D?
Click to expand...
Thank you for your help yssie! What exactly is an "IS?" Is it another program similar to HCA, but more accurate? Where can I find it? Lorelei agreed with you in the fact that the asking price $8000, is to much.

It is a "G" color. So between you and Lorelei both, all things aside, you two would choose the BGD then I assume?

I am awaiting photographs of my cousin''s stone. As soon as I receive it, I''ll post them.

Would either you or Lorelei like the AGS # of the BGD? I''d like to get confirmation from you both that it''s a good piece. thanks!
 
Date: 3/4/2010 4:48:10 AM
Author: kerensky15

Thank you for your help yssie! What exactly is an ''IS?'' Is it another program similar to HCA, but more accurate? Where can I find it? Lorelei agreed with you in the fact that the asking price $8000, is to much.

It is a ''G'' color. So between you and Lorelei both, all things aside, you two would choose the BGD then I assume?

I am awaiting photographs of my cousin''s stone. As soon as I receive it, I''ll post them.

Would either you or Lorelei like the AGS # of the BGD? I''d like to get confirmation from you both that it''s a good piece. thanks!
Click to expand...

IS is idealscope.
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/firescope-idealscope/

For the BGD, you got the idealscope image and the hearts image on the website, no need to use the HCA for that.
 
Date: 3/4/2010 5:10:54 AM
Author: Stone-cold11

Date: 3/4/2010 4:48:10 AM
Author: kerensky15

Thank you for your help yssie! What exactly is an ''IS?'' Is it another program similar to HCA, but more accurate? Where can I find it? Lorelei agreed with you in the fact that the asking price $8000, is to much.

It is a ''G'' color. So between you and Lorelei both, all things aside, you two would choose the BGD then I assume?

I am awaiting photographs of my cousin''s stone. As soon as I receive it, I''ll post them.

Would either you or Lorelei like the AGS # of the BGD? I''d like to get confirmation from you both that it''s a good piece. thanks!
Click to expand...

IS is idealscope.
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/firescope-idealscope/

For the BGD, you got the idealscope image and the hearts image on the website, no need to use the HCA for that.
Click to expand...

Gotcha, thanks!

Since my cousin''s rock is at a jeweler at the moment, can I just have him tell the jeweler to take and provide me ''idealscope'' images? I also checked out the above link you provided. Which scope/kit should I purchase? There''s several selections...I think I just need the scope.Is that the "Beginner Scope" (I think this is just the scope itself) and an "ASET Scope?”

1. Expert Scope & Light
2. ASET Starter Kit
3. Beginner Scope Kit
4. Expert Scope Kit
5. Professional Kit
6. Lumagny Scope

I basically just want the ideal scope...don''t understand why there''s so many choices.

FYI - BG Diamond Info: AGS #1040397620023

Table % 56.4


Depth % 61.4


Crown % 15.0


Crown Angle: 34.6


Star % 55.0


Pav Angle: 40.7


Pavillion % 43.0


Lower Girdle % 77.0


Girdle Min-Max % 1.7-3.7


Girdle – Thin to Medium Faceted


Cutlet: Pointed


Fluorescence: Negligible

 
PS - The BGD stone rated a 1.1 - Excellent w/in TIC range on HCA.

Light Return - Excellent
Fire - Excellent
Scintillation - Excellent
Spread - Very Good
 
most jeweler will not have idealscope with them but no harm asking.

Just the beginner idealscope should be good enough, not as sharp in image as the expert scope. Maybe with a calibration CZ and tweezer for practice so that you know what to look for. The light is not really useful, IMHO, for a mounted stone. ASET scope is more useful for fancy shapes, so if you are looking for one down the road, that might be a better investment?
 
Date: 3/4/2010 4:48:10 AM
Author: kerensky15


Date: 3/4/2010 3:29:31 AM
Author: yssie
The 41.2 could be fine - it's all averaged. Buy yourself an IS (trumps HCA) and ask to take a look if you want confirmation either way.



Your cousin is asking too much for his ring. He'd never be able to sell the ring for 8k to anyone else second-hand. If you're looking to do him a favour, by all means, but keep in mind it's not a fair asking price. That said, it's a big step up in colour and clarity from the BGD, so if you're not looking for a superideal H&A and the IS shows good performance it's something to consider.


ETA: in your OP you state that your cousin's stone is a G, in the next post it's a D?
Click to expand...
Thank you for your help yssie! What exactly is an 'IS?' Is it another program similar to HCA, but more accurate? Where can I find it? Lorelei agreed with you in the fact that the asking price $8000, is to much.

It is a 'G' color. So between you and Lorelei both, all things aside, you two would choose the BGD then I assume?

I am awaiting photographs of my cousin's stone. As soon as I receive it, I'll post them.

Would either you or Lorelei like the AGS # of the BGD? I'd like to get confirmation from you both that it's a good piece. thanks!
Click to expand...
I would like all the images of the BG diamond to say for sure but as it stands I would personally prefer the BG diamond, I wouldn't pay 8k for the cousin's diamond as I feel he is asking too much money.

I think the beginner scope should be adequate if you want to look further at the cousin's diamond.
 
Kerensky,

Like I told you in the other thread, you are faced with a dilemma, a very difficult one, and researching the quality of your cousin''s stone is not going to solve it.

You have to choose between:

A. A well-cut stone at retail-price, and
B. The stone of your cousin, less well cut, but below market-price.

The choice even becomes more difficult, since your cousin''s stone has higher colour and clarity, and thus is more dollars, although it is, compared to market-pricing, a better deal.

In the end, that is the question: You might be doing your cousin a favour (which clearly has value), and he is giving you a deal. But this being a deal for you depends on whether or not you want that stone. If not, when will it become a deal?

Will this lead to you saying no to your cousin, and him saying that you can have it for 6K instead of 8K? It might change your choice, but if you do not take it, it might also sour relations with your cousin. This is basically the dilemma.

Live long,
 
One more thing - if you decide to go with your cousin's stone make sure to take it to an indep appraiser pre-purchase( you can find a list under 'resources' at the top of the page). Don't take it to the local jeweller and expect an unbiased appraisal
1.gif



You want to be sure the diamond has not acquired any chips/scratches since purchase, that the setting is well-made, etc.


One last thought - how does your intended feel about a used ring? Some women don't mind, but others have very strong feelings on the matter - esp. from a failed engagement.
 
I would agree with yssie that many women may take issue with a "used diamond" as there is a perceived failure associated with that ring...

That being said, the G/IF set in Platinum for $8,000 is a pretty good deal. I might liken it to purchasing a used car. This stone has already taken the depreciation hit. Imagine selling either of the stones down the road... If you apply the same 30-50% formula which Lorelei mentioned, your J/SI-1 would be worth closer to 3k at time of sale, whereas your G/IF will be worth almost the same price as you paid for it...

Cheers,

Dana
 
On the used diamond thing; maybe mount the diamond in a new setting, thus making it "yours" and then sell the used setting?
 
I would choose the BGD diamond unless you can get the cousin''s diamond for a fair secondary market price of $4-$6km aking it a deal not only relative to its characteristics but relative to your desires. Although his diamond is a "deal" relative to others similar diamonds out there, as Paul pointed out, it is not a deal compared to the secondary market value and also compared to your own personal budget or desires: Were you looking for an IF stone? Or a G color? Unless the answer to both of these questions is "yes" then it is not worth paying more of the diamond than for the BGD. It''s allure and added value is only really there for someone who values its characteristics. I like G color but really, IF clarity is a waste *to me*. Cut is far more important so I would place more value on the BGD stone regardless of what the market says..
 
Thank you all for your help! I greatly appreciate it and it has helped me tremendously.

From what I gathered, you all make great points I never considered or had knowledge of. Originally, I was not looking for this high of color and clarity, hence I was acceptable of the BGD J color / SI1 clarity. As long as it is "eye-clean" I was fine with it (the girl only wanted it eye clean).

I''ll let you all know my decision shortly. Thanks again!
 
Date: 3/5/2010 2:34:59 AM
Author: kerensky15
Thank you all for your help! I greatly appreciate it and it has helped me tremendously.

From what I gathered, you all make great points I never considered or had knowledge of. Originally, I was not looking for this high of color and clarity, hence I was acceptable of the BGD J color / SI1 clarity. As long as it is ''eye-clean'' I was fine with it (the girl only wanted it eye clean).

I''ll let you all know my decision shortly. Thanks again!
Click to expand...
You are welcome!
35.gif
 
Date: 3/4/2010 9:06:26 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 3/4/2010 4:48:10 AM
Author: kerensky15



Date: 3/4/2010 3:29:31 AM
Author: yssie
The 41.2 could be fine - it''s all averaged. Buy yourself an IS (trumps HCA) and ask to take a look if you want confirmation either way.



Your cousin is asking too much for his ring. He''d never be able to sell the ring for 8k to anyone else second-hand. If you''re looking to do him a favour, by all means, but keep in mind it''s not a fair asking price. That said, it''s a big step up in colour and clarity from the BGD, so if you''re not looking for a superideal H&A and the IS shows good performance it''s something to consider.


ETA: in your OP you state that your cousin''s stone is a G, in the next post it''s a D?
Click to expand...
Thank you for your help yssie! What exactly is an ''IS?'' Is it another program similar to HCA, but more accurate? Where can I find it? Lorelei agreed with you in the fact that the asking price $8000, is to much.

It is a ''G'' color. So between you and Lorelei both, all things aside, you two would choose the BGD then I assume?

I am awaiting photographs of my cousin''s stone. As soon as I receive it, I''ll post them.

Would either you or Lorelei like the AGS # of the BGD? I''d like to get confirmation from you both that it''s a good piece. thanks!
Click to expand...
I would like all the images of the BG diamond to say for sure but as it stands I would personally prefer the BG diamond, I wouldn''t pay 8k for the cousin''s diamond as I feel he is asking too much money.

I think the beginner scope should be adequate if you want to look further at the cousin''s diamond.
Click to expand...
Hey Lorelei,

Here''s the link to the BGD stone w/pics. Like I said, I searched around other places other than BGD and this piece really attracted me. For the carat size, cut, and price it was the best bang for the buck. Take a look and tell me what you think.
 
Date: 3/5/2010 5:47:25 AM
Author: kerensky15

Date: 3/4/2010 9:06:26 AM
Author: Lorelei


Date: 3/4/2010 4:48:10 AM
Author: kerensky15




Date: 3/4/2010 3:29:31 AM
Author: yssie
The 41.2 could be fine - it''s all averaged. Buy yourself an IS (trumps HCA) and ask to take a look if you want confirmation either way.



Your cousin is asking too much for his ring. He''d never be able to sell the ring for 8k to anyone else second-hand. If you''re looking to do him a favour, by all means, but keep in mind it''s not a fair asking price. That said, it''s a big step up in colour and clarity from the BGD, so if you''re not looking for a superideal H&A and the IS shows good performance it''s something to consider.


ETA: in your OP you state that your cousin''s stone is a G, in the next post it''s a D?
Click to expand...
Thank you for your help yssie! What exactly is an ''IS?'' Is it another program similar to HCA, but more accurate? Where can I find it? Lorelei agreed with you in the fact that the asking price $8000, is to much.

It is a ''G'' color. So between you and Lorelei both, all things aside, you two would choose the BGD then I assume?

I am awaiting photographs of my cousin''s stone. As soon as I receive it, I''ll post them.

Would either you or Lorelei like the AGS # of the BGD? I''d like to get confirmation from you both that it''s a good piece. thanks!
Click to expand...
I would like all the images of the BG diamond to say for sure but as it stands I would personally prefer the BG diamond, I wouldn''t pay 8k for the cousin''s diamond as I feel he is asking too much money.

I think the beginner scope should be adequate if you want to look further at the cousin''s diamond.
Click to expand...
Hey Lorelei,

Here''s the link to the BGD stone w/pics. Like I said, I searched around other places other than BGD and this piece really attracted me. For the carat size, cut, and price it was the best bang for the buck. Take a look and tell me what you think.
Click to expand...
I am here ready to serve!
35.gif
 
Kerensky I can''t find the details?
 
Date: 3/5/2010 7:59:15 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 3/5/2010 7:46:06 AM
Author: kerensky15
Oops...here''s the link.

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/diamond-detail/?product_id=AGS-1040397620023
Click to expand...
Thanks!

The diamond looks great, I take it the stone isn''t a h&a cut as the hearts image isn''t provided? Have you checked it is eyeclean?
Click to expand...
Hey Lorelei,

The stone is a BGD H&A Signature. It was just added brand new to the BG inventory, so the hearts image wasn''t uploaded yet. I reserved it the day it was uploaded. According to BGD, the hearts image will be loaded in the next few days. I''ll inform you again. As for the eyeclean issue, I just confirmed it with BGD and it IS eyeclean according to them.

I''ll have 15 days to view it anyways.
 
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