Help to buy an emerald!

[laurenk]

Hello, Id love some help finding an emerald. I want good deep green colour and good quality. What can I expect to pay for a 2-4 Carat loose Brazilian or colombian stone?

It will be for a ring with side tapered Baguettes.

Thinking emerald shape or radiant not too long but not square, maybe even cushion cut??

 

[chrono]

Pricing will depend on the colour, the level of treatment, the clarity and to some degree, its origin. Colombian emeralds are generally better coloured than Brazilian emeralds.
http://www.africagems.com/emerald2to3carat.html
http://www.embassyemeralds.com/

1. What sort of treatment is acceptable (none, cedar oil, resin) and what level of treatment?
2. What is your budget?
3. Please post pictures of the ideal colour emerald you like.

 

[laurenk]

Hi chrono
Thanks for replying and sorry its taken me so long to get back on. I want something thats not too transparent, so a medium green without going too deep that price goes up heaps. I dont have any idea about treatments, what is considered OK, and what should I avoid? I want a cushion, emerald or radiant cut emerald to be flanked by two tapered diamond baguettes. I have a budget around $5k to include the setting. Is there a company that could do the whole lot? Or is it best to order the emerald first then set it?

Thank you so much

 

[LoversKites]

Hi chrono
Thanks for replying and sorry its taken me so long to get back on. I want something thats not too transparent, so a medium green without going too deep that price goes up heaps. I dont have any idea about treatments, what is considered OK, and what should I avoid? I want a cushion, emerald or radiant cut emerald to be flanked by two tapered diamond baguettes. I have a budget around $5k to include the setting. Is there a company that could do the whole lot? Or is it best to order the emerald first then set it?

Thank you so much

Different people are ok with different treatments. Here is a nice explanation of them:
http://www.embassyemeralds.com/index.php?main_page=treatment

Don't expect untreated but they are possible to get. Cedar oil is fine -- over time the oil fades and it may need to be reoiled. Make sure you ask if anything has been added to the oil like dye (bad). For epoxies, I don't mind ExCel because it is colourless, safe, permanent and removable. I haven't done much research about other fillers so I don't have an opinion on them. You could also get a synthetic emerald. We aren't allowed to discuss synthetics here but it's an option.

It is better to buy the emerald first because a setting demands a specific mm measurement and shape to fit into it.

Eta -- you have a nice budget; if I were you I'd look at oiled. Thing is, I'd find it fun to spend time looking for an untreated emerald too

 

[derbygal]

Excited to see what you find as I'd like something similar someday. Wishlist!

 

[MJO]

If your goal is to have a stone as natural as possible but wear it a lot I would not go with oil. If you were not going to wear the stone I would use oil. Oil does not stabilize the stone only helps mask the inclusions. A treatment like Excel stabilizes the stone which helps prevent further cracking of the stone in the event of knocks and bumps. In a ring especially I believe this is needed. Plus it is reversible and lifetime warrantied. An emerald with excel can be steam cleaned.

 

[LoversKites]

If your goal is to have a stone as natural as possible but wear it a lot I would not go with oil. If you were not going to wear the stone I would use oil. Oil does not stabilize the stone only helps mask the inclusions. A treatment like Excel stabilizes the stone which helps prevent further cracking of the stone in the event of knocks and bumps. In a ring especially I believe this is needed. Plus it is reversible and lifetime warrantied. An emerald with excel can be steam cleaned.

Good point I didn't realise before.

If possible I'd get an AGL report stating level of treatment (faint, minor, moderate should be ok depending on the treatment and price you're paying).

 

[MJO]

Does the AGL still list treatments or just say level of treatment for emeralds? The certs I've seen lately just give level of enhancement.

 

[laurenk]

Thank you Loverskites and MJO! This is very helpful. I'd like to wear the ring often but not every single day (3 young kids etc). I'm in Australia also but happy to purchase anywhere. I have a friend who is a fine Jewellery and art valuator and she is scouring the auction Houses to see if anything comes up as it may be a way to get some bang for my buck.

I want something worth what I pay for it and something I'll leave to my daughter one day so I don't want synthetic. I want it to look like an Emerald and for people to know it's real.

My biggest problem is knowing who to trust and exactly what the stone will be like once I have it physically in my hand. I spoke to James Allen too.

I spoke to my diamond guy here in Brisbane Australia and he has a 1.8 carat oval Emerald ring for about $5k but I was hoping I may get something a little larger if I shop overseas?

I'd be thrilled for any of you wonderful experts to find me some options for a loose stone only.

I've attached a pic of something I like which is a curent auction here in Australia. I think it's had treatment and it's hard to tell quality.

I aso found a loose Emerald on eBay for about $4k, I will share the link soon for feedback.

 

[laurenk]

321584668066 is the eBay item number. I wasnt sure how to attach a link....,

 

[MJO]

This is the website for Arthur Groom. He developed and owns the patent to the Excel Emerald and Tourmaline Treatment processes. He has a retail store in the next town from me. He has the best emeralds I have seen but they are not cheap. You can contact them and if you like I can go look at the stones and tell you more if you decide to proceed. The worst of his stones looks much better than the one from ebay.

http://www.eternitynaturalemerald.com

The stone listed below was one I got from Arthur 10 years ago. I just sold it to Gemline (litnon). I've known him for years and there is no one I trust more than Michael.

http://www.litnon.com/index.php?page=viewgem&id=209

 

[LoversKites]

321584668066 is the eBay item number. I wasnt sure how to attach a link....,

I have never heard of EMIL lab before, they may be legit and honest, but for a commonly highly treated stone like emerald I'd really, really prefer a report from a highly regarded lab. And the image of the EMIL report has no mention of treatment. I also don't think you'll find a high quality 5ct emerald for that price. I'd pass.

My biggest problem is knowing who to trust and exactly what the stone will be like once I have it physically in my hand. I spoke to James Allen too.

Avoid james allen for CS. Their gems are commercial quality. I think it'd be best to see some emeralds IRL to get a feel of what you like and what emeralds are like IRL. We have a thread pinned at the top with vendors who people here have had good experiences with; most of these do not sell emeralds but some do. I like embassyemeralds and africagems for quality but they can be expensive.

I spoke to my diamond guy here in Brisbane Australia and he has a 1.8 carat oval Emerald ring for about $5k but I was hoping I may get something a little larger if I shop overseas?

Firstly, be careful with finding deals online, it's hard to know what you're getting. Definitely ask us about it before buying something.

Secondly, many jewelers and the like who are very well versed in diamonds know little about CS so be sure you trust him enough.
I can't comment on the emerald your diamond guy showed you because I don't know about it's quality -- colour, treatments, clarity, etc. I think for a nice emerald 5K 1.8ct is expensive. Example (I don't like that it's described as a light-med hue though):
http://www.embassyemeralds.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&manufacturers_id=&products_id=585

The stone listed below was one I got from Arthur 10 years ago. I just sold it to Gemline (litnon). I've known him for years and there is no one I trust more than Michael.

http://www.litnon.com/index.php?page=viewgem&id=209

Wah, that is beautiful.

 

[LoversKites]

OP I think it's best to first know what you want. What do you want in an emerald from most important to least important? How much would you be willing to sacrifice on each factor to get a bit more of something else? These are things only you can answer and will be more accurate after getting a feel of whats out there imo. After that you can decide what your 'ideal' emerald would be like. You'll know what to look for. Don't expect to find exactly what you want but you should come close.

 

[MJO]

321584668066 is the eBay item number. I wasnt sure how to attach a link....,

I have never heard of EMIL lab before, they may be legit and honest, but for a commonly highly treated stone like emerald I'd really, really prefer a report from a highly regarded lab. And the image of the EMIL report has no mention of treatment. I also don't think you'll find a high quality 5ct emerald for that price. I'd pass.

My biggest problem is knowing who to trust and exactly what the stone will be like once I have it physically in my hand. I spoke to James Allen too.

Avoid james allen for CS. Their gems are commercial quality. I think it'd be best to see some emeralds IRL to get a feel of what you like and what emeralds are like IRL. We have a thread pinned at the top with vendors who people here have had good experiences with; most of these do not sell emeralds but some do. I like embassyemeralds and africagems for quality but they can be expensive.

I spoke to my diamond guy here in Brisbane Australia and he has a 1.8 carat oval Emerald ring for about $5k but I was hoping I may get something a little larger if I shop overseas?

Firstly, be careful with finding deals online, it's hard to know what you're getting. Definitely ask us about it before buying something.

Secondly, many jewelers and the like who are very well versed in diamonds know little about CS so be sure you trust him enough.
I can't comment on the emerald your diamond guy showed you because I don't know about it's quality -- colour, treatments, clarity, etc. I think for a nice emerald 5K 1.8ct is expensive. Example (I don't like that it's described as a light-med hue though):
http://www.embassyemeralds.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&manufacturers_id=&products_id=585

The stone listed below was one I got from Arthur 10 years ago. I just sold it to Gemline (litnon). I've known him for years and there is no one I trust more than Michael.

http://www.litnon.com/index.php?page=viewgem&id=209

Wah, that is beautiful.

Thanks. I bought the best he had gotten from Afghanistan at the time.

I don't know why Michael didn't post it but that stone has an AGL Cert for the stats he quoted.

 

[Marlow]

He post it in the headline

"Superb Gem! AGL Certified Emerald Afghanistan...."

A fantastic Stone!

 

[MJO]

I meant a copy of the cert

 

[laurenk]

Attached is the valuation and information about an emerald ring. This ring (online) is the colour, shape, size and clarity I like. I am finding it hard to decipher the cert.

Any input would be great.

 

[MJO]

Sorry too fuzzy for me to read.

 

[chrono]

Does the AGL still list treatments or just say level of treatment for emeralds? The certs I've seen lately just give level of enhancement.

AGL will list the type of filler used (oil, resin, etc but I'm not sure if they will list the exact type such as cedar, Excel, Opticon, etc) and the level of treatment only on the full report. They used to for the briefs but not anymore.

 

[chrono]

Looks like the paperwork is for a parcel of 6 stones, which I think are listed in order of size in the picture in the report. No mention of the type of filler used.

Colour: Green
Tone: Medium
Weight: 5.31, 4.65, 4.32, 3.72, 3.61 and 3.46 ct
Natural beryl, emerald variety
Enhancement - minor 4.32 ct, moderate (the other 5 emeralds)
Origin: Colombia

 

[mastercutgems]

Chrono is correct; AGL will list either traditional or modern as the type of clarity enhancement; but will only list the substances used in either of the styles of treatment not the particular one found in that particular subject... I am sure it is too costly to do a chemical analysis per gem.

I know I just had about 20 done in the last 2 months and many with the prestige reports which go a little more in detail as to the traditional oil or the more modern polymer type substances...

Treatments, treatments, treatments.... I guess that is why the perfect color, clarity, and size gems with no treatment demand the high prices as they are truly rare in nature...

Emerald is a very lovely mineral...

Most Respectfully;

Dana Reynolds
ASG CERTIFIED Supreme Master Gem Cutter
#96CGE42

 

[MollyMalone]

I can say that CDTEC, the lab which issued that report, is not some fly-by-night operation. It was established maybe 8-10 years ago, with support from the Columbian government, in an effort to bring greater order and legitimacy to the emerald scene there. The founding CEO/lab director (whose name I don't recall off the top of my head) was one of the first -- if not the first -- to alert the emerald world to the fact that irradiation of Columbia emeralds was being done.

My guess is that CDTEC uses the designation "minor" clarity enhancement to mean oil-only & that "moderate" refers to, e.g., ExCel or PermaSafe, but that's just a guess. The home page provides an info e-mail address if you'd like to see if they will clarify these designations for you:
http://gemlabcdtec.com/en/

 

[MJO]

The terms minor and moderate refer to the amount that is in the stone to fill the fissures it does not refer to the type of treatment used,

 

[MollyMalone]

Thanks, MJO, for setting me straight. (My former father-in-law, who was in the trade, sourced my emeralds for me -- good thing, huh? )

 

[laurenk]

A fellow PS'er purchased a loose stone from another and had the stone precision cut here in Australia. It's a 3.8 carat I beleive (was around 4.7) and I've attached some pictures for some feedback. Asking $3k Australian. He is offering a 30 day return too. What do you think?

 

[MJO]

The tone seems a little light. I don't know if I would classify it as emerald or green beryl.

 

[T L]

The tone seems a little light. I don't know if I would classify it as emerald or green beryl.

I've seen emeralds that light toned, and I would say it's an emerald, especially if its colored by chromium as most Colombian material is (that stone looks Colombian).

I actually own a real green beryl,totally clean with the exception of a couple needles, and colored by vanadium. It's more of a minty color, and reminds me of a seafoam aquamarine. Here's a horrible picture of it. It's not considered an aqua because it doesn't contain iron (the vendor told me that). As you can see, it looks nothing like an emerald, but it's still primarily green. I would not consider this stone an emerald.

 

[MJO]

I said I was not sure if I would consider it green beryl or emerald because my emerald dealer told me he doesn't consider light toned stones emerald but green beryl no mater what they are colored by. I have a 4.5ct light toned stone that is totally clean Colombian stone that some call emerald and some green beryl. It's like the difference between Tsavorite and Mint Garnet it depends on if you are buying or selling <g>.

 

[T L]

I said I was not sure if I would consider it green beryl or emerald because my emerald dealer told me he doesn't consider light toned stones emerald but green beryl no mater what they are colored by. I have a 4.5ct light toned stone that is totally clean Colombian stone that some call emerald and some green beryl. It's like the difference between Tsavorite and Mint Garnet it depends on if you are buying or selling .

It depends again on chromium content for some dealers. Dealers tend to differ. I would bet a million bucks that AGL would deem that an emerald though. Although light in tone, it has that green hue still associated with emerald and chromium content.

Here's an interesting post by Vincent Pardieu in this thread.

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/is-there-a-difference-between-green-beryl-and-emerald.17111/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/is-there-a-difference-between-green-beryl-and-emerald.17111/[/URL]

 

[MJO]

Basically he is saying the Columbian Dealers decided that if a stone has at least .1% Chrome content if will be called an emerald because all their stones have that content. Even if the stone is a fine green but color by Vanadium and no Chromium. This way all Columbian stone can be called emeralds. Seems a little prejudicial to me <g>. It would be interesting to see if all Emeralds in ancient Jewelery (Before Columbia) were colored by at least .1% Chrome.

As far as the AGL Calling that stone an Emerald you are probably right. It is better than very light.