Help! Should a person with a DEd be addressed as Dr.?

[iheartscience]

Should a DEd be addressed as Dr.? I have to correspond with someone with a DEd and I'm not sure how to address them. Googling isn't helping so I figured I'd turn to PS! Thank you!

 

[Tuckins1]

Yes, anyone with a doctoral degree should be addressed as "doctor". (Technically speaking)

 

[ilovethiswebsite]

Yep.... it's a doctorate so yes, they are a Dr.

I actually didn't address any of the Dr's I invited as Dr since it was a social gathering and not academic/professional related, but that's a personal choice....

 

[Nashville]

Yes, as a courtesy. I met a friend of my mother's who has a history PhD and when I called her "Mrs. Anderson" she hissed "It's doctor Anderson."

Never made that mistake again

 

[iheartscience]

Thanks all! The person signed their email "Pat Doe, DEd" but introduced themselves to me as Pat Doe. BUT it definitely wasn't an informal, first name thing. So I'll go with Dr.

Thanks again-I love PS!

ETA I usually correspond with PhDs (and use Dr.) but I'm just not used to DEds.

 

[Circe]

Yes, as a courtesy. I met a friend of my mother's who has a history PhD and when I called her "Mrs. Anderson" she hissed "It's doctor Anderson."

Never made that mistake again

Yeowch! I'm an English Ph.D., but I never insist on the title in social situations, just because ... well, where's the context? That said, I do tend to be a bit irked by the disparity of it if I call a medical doctor by their title, and they dive for my first name. There's an interesting hierarchy implied there ....

And yes, in correspondence, discretion is the better part of valor. Use the title, and your worst case scenario is they say, "Call me Pat!" Eschew the title, and face Nashville's experience!

 

[Karl_K]

Yes, as a courtesy. I met a friend of my mother's who has a history PhD and when I called her "Mrs. Anderson" she hissed "It's doctor Anderson."

Never made that mistake again

I would say,,,,,
I have this spot here can you look at it?
been there done that.

 

[Nashville]

Yes, as a courtesy. I met a friend of my mother's who has a history PhD and when I called her "Mrs. Anderson" she hissed "It's doctor Anderson."

Never made that mistake again

I would say,,,,,
I have this spot here can you look at it?
been there done that.

Haha! "But just so we're clear, in case of an actual emergency, we should still call 911 right?"

 

[iheartscience]

Yes, as a courtesy. I met a friend of my mother's who has a history PhD and when I called her "Mrs. Anderson" she hissed "It's doctor Anderson."

Never made that mistake again

I would say,,,,,
I have this spot here can you look at it?
been there done that.

Haha! "But just so we're clear, in case of an actual emergency, we should still call 911 right?"

SNORT. (No offense to all of the PhDs who aren't total douches about having PhDs!)

 

[Maria D]

Yeowch! I'm an English Ph.D., but I never insist on the title in social situations, just because ... well, where's the context? That said, I do tend to be a bit irked by the disparity of it if I call a medical doctor by their title, and they dive for my first name. There's an interesting hierarchy implied there ....

And yes, in correspondence, discretion is the better part of valor. Use the title, and your worst case scenario is they say, "Call me Pat!" Eschew the title, and face Nashville's experience!

That is my personal pet peeve, when the "Dr's" of the world insist on an honorific while using *my* first name. It's not just the doctors themselves that do it, the whole office crew gets into it.

"Dr. Important will see you now, Maria." Yeah, well it's Ms. D to you! The superintendent of my district has a D.Ed. and insists on being called Dr. X. Well, fine, but why is he calling us by our first names -- even faculty that also have PhD's?

By the way Circe, I loved what you wrote on the housewife thread -- Dr. Circe for President!

 

[Haven]

It depends on the situation.

People really get their panties in a bunch about this here on PS, but according to U.S. etiquette, we only address MDs as "Doctor" in social situations. (Really, I should say it's only proper for MDs to insist that others address them as "Doctor Soandso" socially.) Professionally, it is proper to call anyone with a doctorate "Doctor," especially if they choose to be addressed that way.

I know it sounds strange because the PhD is the highest degree one can obtain in this country, but we withhold the title of "Doctor" for MDs, socially. It is more about the connotation (which has evolved to be that Doctor = individual in a white lab coat and a stethoscope around her neck) and less about rank in a social context.

It's funny, because when I taught high school I worked with many EdDs who introduced themselves as "Dr. Hoitytoity" in social situations, and were very sure (and quick) to correct people if they were merely addressed as Mr. or Mrs. Now I teach in a community college and most of my colleagues hold PhDs, yet they have all gone by their first names in social situations thus far.

 

[iheartscience]

Thank you Circe, Maria D and Haven for the insight! This is a professional correspondence, so I'm going to go with Dr. just to be on the safe side. In my department certain Drs. (HoityToity) like to go by Dr. and others go by their first names. Guess it depends on how important they need to feel.

Also, some of the non-professors insist on putting their degrees behind their names on their door signs, even though they just have Masters degrees. Sometimes I don't think academia is for me. I don't have much patience for arrogance and general douchery. Also, I'm cranky and tired, which isn't helping. I need to .

 

[Haven]

Thank you Circe, Maria D and Haven for the insight! This is a professional correspondence, so I'm going to go with Dr. just to be on the safe side. In my department certain Drs. (HoityToity) like to go by Dr. and others go by their first names. Guess it depends on how important they need to feel.

Also, some of the non-professors insist on putting their degrees behind their names on their door signs, even though they just have Masters degrees. Sometimes I don't think academia is for me. I don't have much patience for arrogance and general douchery. Also, I'm cranky and tired, which isn't helping. I need to .

I plan to make a button out of that line.

 

[kelpie]

I was weirded about as a child because I had a friend whose parents were veterinarians who insisted their kids friends call them Dr and Dr XYZ. First it's weird because you are calling each parent by the same name. And secondly while I refer to my vets as Dr Soandso at the vet's office these were the only vets I've known snobby enough to act like it was a social faux pas not to address them by their level of education. The PHD thing bugs me when people sign their emails with it, and then act like you aren't even worth their attention if you don't obviously indicate if you have one (this is in the Research field). There are lots of letters I have earned that could follow my name but I prefer Kelpie, N.P.*

*Not Pretentious

 

[kelpie]

In all seriousness though, if it is a formal enough correspondence that you would already send to Mr/Ms/Sir/Madame you might as well replace that with Dr.

 

[Trekkie]

Hehe! I had such a good laugh reading this thread!

My bf also works in research. He has a PhD and generally goes by his first name. He only insists on "Dr" when dealing with overfriendly call centre staff and telesales stalkers.

My English prof walks around campus in shorts, he's very chilled and laidback. During our introductory lecture, he stood up and said, 'hello, my name is Dan. Do not call me sir or I'll shoot you'.

The only time he uses his title is with medical doctors who feel the need to insist on him using theirs.

 

[Imdanny]

PhD's and the like who insist on being addressed as "Doctor" in social situations and especially if they're rude about it need to get a life.

 

[swimmer]

Is this person from SA? In the US most programs grant EdDs rather than DEds. Not being helpful, but wondering.

Ha and like the other posters I can't stand when people list their masters degrees on doors or email sign offs. In this economy every barrista has a few masters degrees, it is sheer puffery to list them. Besides, they got that sign over a real salary in all likelihood.

 

[Callisto]

This thread is cracking me up. I work at a university so I see all ends of the "call me Dr. X" spectrum. Most of the faculty I work directly with just go by their first name. However I will drop the "I work for Dr. Hoitytoity" when I need something done faster

I don't think I've ever accidentally called any of them Mr. or Mrs. X.... it's usually either first name or Dr.X.

 

[AGBF]

I've gone through all kinds of stages about titles. First, my parents are Quakers and although many Quakers use titles in their everyday lives, it is not Quaker practice to do so. Quakers do not do so in their official correspondence and some Quakers do not do so in their daily lives, either. Since they believe that all people are equal in God's eyes, they address each person by his entire name. They do not use titlles like, "Mr." or , "Mrs." or "Dr." or "Lord", or "Your Majesty". (And they they refused to take off their hats for the king in England.) At times I have gone with this route (although not for religious reasons) and told everyone that I was going to use their names, not their titles.

Right now I think I use a ttle for anyone who has one, no matter how obscure. If the person feels buoyed by hearing a title, I don't need to withold it. It costs me nothing to call someone, "Doctor", whether or not the person has any education! Life is hard. Why withold anyone's simple gratifications in life?

AGBF

 

[Nashville]

This thread reminds me of that woman on Real Housewives who has a total meltdown if someone neglects to call her "Countess." Last I checked, those titles aren't recognized in the US

 

[Circe]

That is my personal pet peeve, when the "Dr's" of the world insist on an honorific while using *my* first name. It's not just the doctors themselves that do it, the whole office crew gets into it.

"Dr. Important will see you now, Maria." Yeah, well it's Ms. D to you! The superintendent of my district has a D.Ed. and insists on being called Dr. X. Well, fine, but why is he calling us by our first names -- even faculty that also have PhD's?

By the way Circe, I loved what you wrote on the housewife thread -- Dr. Circe for President!

Heh, thanks Maria! Given how that thread took off, I wasn't sure if anybody even noticed - the shoutout warms the cockles of my cold, cold heart.

As for the title thing ... I think it really does speak to power and authority. I have the sneaking suspicion we're all a little tiny bit scared of medical doctors - they *do* hold the power of giving us results, advice, etc. Professors? Sadly, are in a kind of decline of respect, what with the current customer-is-always-right-mentality we see in higher education. Not so in Germany, where you still have Herr Doktor Professor as the common title ... totally cultural. I do wonder how much of it is linked to the percentage of people attending college, and possibly becoming disenchanted ....

 

[Bleed Burnt Orange]

My brother who is an MD/PhD never introduces himself as Dr. so and so (except at work of course). He's very conscious of his accomplishments but doesn't flaunt it.

I think maybe those who really put emphasis on it, it's the thing they feel most defined by. I think out of respect, if you know someone has a doctorate, and it's a formal instance, I think using the title would be appropriate.

 

[Haven]

Yeowch! I'm an English Ph.D., but I never insist on the title in social situations, just because ... well, where's the context? That said, I do tend to be a bit irked by the disparity of it if I call a medical doctor by their title, and they dive for my first name. There's an interesting hierarchy implied there ....

And yes, in correspondence, discretion is the better part of valor. Use the title, and your worst case scenario is they say, "Call me Pat!" Eschew the title, and face Nashville's experience!

That is my personal pet peeve, when the "Dr's" of the world insist on an honorific while using *my* first name. It's not just the doctors themselves that do it, the whole office crew gets into it.

"Dr. Important will see you now, Maria." Yeah, well it's Ms. D to you! The superintendent of my district has a D.Ed. and insists on being called Dr. X. Well, fine, but why is he calling us by our first names -- even faculty that also have PhD's?

By the way Circe, I loved what you wrote on the housewife thread -- Dr. Circe for President!

I very much agree with this. My former Assistant Principal insisted that everyone call him "Dr. Whatever" yet he called all of the females in the building by their first names, starting even before he even met any of us. He sent an email to me during the summer (long before we met) requesting materials of mine to help him prepare a particular program, and he wrote "Dear Lori" and signed it "Dr. Whatever."

However, he used titles with all of the men.

What's worse is that he called me "Lori" in front of students. Even after I asked him to use "Mrs. Haven" in front of students, he persisted in calling me by my first name.

 

[soocool]

I know elementary and secondary school teachers with PhD's who go by Ms. or Mr. Two of my friends who teach college, however, go by Dr. I also know someone with a medical degree who has a medical management company and only goes my his first name. He never uses the title Dr. , but his business card shows MD after his surname. In other words, I never know unless I am introduced to them or someone tells me how to address them. But one thing, I have never been corrected by them if I addressed them incorrectly.

 

[Haven]

Circe--You make a really interesting point about power and authority. I shall have to chew on that for a bit.

Deb--I like that your post brought me some perspective. Rather than getting irritated and thinking someone is a bit proud, I should just call them what they want to be called and know that for whatever reason, it makes them happy.

I'm interested to hear what everyone thinks about this scenario:

There are MANY rabbis who also hold PhDs, in a variety of subjects, mind you. Some of them go by "Rabbi," some go by "Doctor," and some go by "Rabbi Doctor Surname." (All rabbis in the Reform movement go to school for five years to earn their Master of Arts and their ordination as a Reform rabbi. THEN, after 25 years of service they are awarded an honorary doctorate, so I suppose they could all go by "Rabbi Doctor" after 25 years.)

I don't know why, but that just makes me giggle. "Hi, Rabbi Doctor Goldstein! Shabbat shalom!" I've never been able to say it without giggling. Of course, when they prefer it I do call them Rabbi Doctor. As a child, it was very confusing--is she our rabbi? Or should I go to her when my tummy hurts?

 

[Circe]

Interesting scenario, Haven!

For me, it's the context thing that makes the scene: I expect my students to call me Professor Circe (well, until I tell them to just call me by my name, which is usually on the first day of class - but I will admit that I hate it when they call me by my first name of their own volition (see also, damn kids get off my lawn)). But in a social setting? I assume we're all equals.

If I was dealing with someone with a double doctorate, like BBO's brother, they'd be doc in a medical setting, prof in an academic setting. For a rabbi, in the course of religious dealings I'd probably fall back on their religious title ... unless, as you point out, the prefer otherwise. Because like BBO says, for a lot of people, I think it's either a huge identity marker (which is understandable, given the cult of academia), or an accomplishment they're v. proud of (as one of my friends puts it, after putting in 7 years of hard labor, she'd damn well better get the title, 'cause she's sure not seeing it reflected in her state-issued paycheck!), or, like your principle, as a way to assert authority over other people (this one is gross and patronizing and gives the rest of us a bad name IMHO). But it's up to the individual: if either of the first two weigh heavily enough to cancel out the possibility of being mistaken for the third, I guess the rest of us get to go with it ....

P.S. - Haven, how did you resist the urge to bite your assistant principal? How completely inappropriate!

 

[Haven]

Circe--I like "But in a social setting? I assume we're all equals."
And, I do understand the desire to be recognized for all of the hard work it took to earn the degree. I really do.

As for my former Assistant Principal, it was very difficult to endure our conversations without launching an assault of some kind. At the end of a conversation, he would literally turn to me and say "Thanks for your input, Lori" and then turn to the man standing next to me and say "Mr. Superteacher, it has been a pleasure." I should note that I no longer work in that school. Our female superintendent held the same prejudices against women.

 

[Lew Lew]

Well, I conduct the Policeman's Benevolent Association Orchestra, so I insist that you call me Maestro.

 

[brazen_irish_hussy]

I really wanted to add to this thread. I am getting my PhD and in pretty much every English speaking country except this one, you always call a PhD holder "doctor". In Britain, it is technically more correct to call a PhD a doctor than a medical doctor. I have friends who are in residency and many doctors in my family and I work just as hard and put in just as much effort as they have. Once I have it, I will be signing things Dr. Brazen. I would never correct someone, just as I never do when they call me by DH's last name. I go by my first name and I can't imagine except in official settings that I would not continue to do so; I am very laid back and come from a household where any sign of trying to outdo other people is very frowned on. That being said, if I work that hard and earn the right to be called Dr, I would rather be called doctor. All the MDs in my family have no trouble with the PhD holders going by doctor as well. I see forcing people to say it or getting mad arrogance. Wanting people to respect your hard work is not.