Help Please!!!!!!!! Warped Arrows on Diamond Image

[Rickb26]

G'DAY to all you fantastic folk.

Love this site, very helpful.
Its all I have been reading on my 1.5 hr bus journeys to and from work for the last 2 weeks.

About to pull the pin and pop that question and searched high and low for the right stone.

I just spent the last hour putting on a hold for a .96 F VS2 Ideal cut diamond. GIA rating as E E VG, although, the price seemed a little too good and I could not work out why.

Then I looked at the arrows on the image and they are barely recognizable. Below is a link to an image, and also attached.

Could you kind folk please advise me if I should have concerns about the cut and symmetry of this diamond.

I ran it through the HCA and it came up with a 0.9, E E E VG which seems good to me

Specs are below. Its getting late here is Australia so sorry mates if I do not reply until tomorrow, but appreciate any advice.

http://www.jamesallen.com/DiamPics/EB24108pic.jpg

Carat Weight: 0.96
Cut: Excellent
Color: F
Clarity: VS2
Certificate: GIA
Depth: 60.9%
Table: 56.0%
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Very Good
Girdle: Thin to Meduim
Culet: Very Small
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 6.37*6.43*3.89
Crown Angle: 34.0
Crown %: 15.00
Pavilion Angle: 40.8

 

[distracts]

Can you link us to the diamond on JA and post the idealscope when you get it?

Otherwise, hearts and arrows are a measure of symmetry, NOT a measure of light performance. Especially in the size you are getting, having slightly off-kilter symmetry (really, what is shown in that pic is not bad at all compared to many) won't be noticeable. Now, if you are a cut-nut like many on this forum, you'll choose to pick a diamond with perfect symmetry even though you'll pay more for it, but it's not necessary to get one that looks really awesome in person (in a round brilliant, anyway - there are some cuts like asschers that look super-weird when they're not symmetrical).

 

[Rickb26]

Thanks.
Having never purchased a diamond prior, I think I am a 'cut nut'. But I am also on a budget and hence may need to sacrifice size for cut.

In terms of performance, would the off-kilter symmetry affect the fire & brilliance of this diamond. If so, is there some way of quantifying it? i.e determining how much loss in quality % wise?
Because it sure does affect the price on offer.

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-VS2-Excellent-Cut-Round-Diamond-1507996.asp


Cheers

 

[stone-cold11]

Looks like the stone is tilted when the image is taken, unlikely that would get an Ex in symm grade. Request for an idealscope image, if it looks the same, then probably it is off symm, but if the light return is good, not a problem in terms of performance.

 

[distracts]

In terms of performance, would the off-kilter symmetry affect the fire & brilliance of this diamond. If so, is there some way of quantifying it? i.e determining how much loss in quality % wise?

No. It should not affect the fire and brilliance. If you have not already, ask JA to send you an idealscope image, which will show the light performance of the diamond. You can also ask your JA rep to have one of their gemologists examine the diamond and answer those questions for you. But there have been several PSers who have intentionally gone with diamonds that have ideal light performance but aren't entirely symmetrical to get a break on price. The light performance has to do with the critical angles at which light reflects through the stone - and you definitely shouldn't sacrifice that - but the symmetry of the arrows should not affect it. Performance is independent from whether the stone is H&A. If cutters are taking the time to cut H&A, they usually bother to cut it well in terms of light performance, but we've seen H&A stones with bad light performance, and many stones with excellent light performance that aren't H&A.

For instance, this stone has good, defined, symmetrical arrows in the picture (ignore the weird aspects of the photography, some JA pics are like that):
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/E-VVS2-Excellent-Cut-Round-Diamond-1394888.asp

It scores a 5.3 on the HCA - "Good - only if price is your main criterion." Light return, Scintillation, and Spread are Good, and Fire is Fair. I would not buy it myself nor would I recommend it to others. The lack of fire and scintillation will be much more noticeable than the fact that its arrows are symmetrical.

 

[Rickb26]

Just a quick touch base. I have requested an ideal scope image.

I did not intitially know that this service was readily available, given that a different online retailer here in Australia (Jogia diamonds ) refused to offer me any images.

The image should be available in 3 days upon which i will post it for you all.

Extremely happy with the service offered by jamesallen so far.

 

[distracts]

Just a quick touch base. I have requested an ideal scope image.

I did not intitially know that this service was readily available, given that a different online retailer here in Australia (Jogia diamonds ) refused to offer me any images.

The image should be available in 3 days upon which i will post it for you all.

Extremely happy with the service offered by jamesallen so far.

Good. James Allen offers three free idealscope images and then I think after that I believe there is a charge. This diamond is a good contender for your first one. If it doesn't look good we can all help to find the two best options for the next though.

(And a lot of places don't know about idealscope/aset images, and some that do don't use them. Kind of archaic, imo, but oh well.)

 

[Gypsy]

Please don't let them force you to pick three. Do one at a time.

 

[stone-cold11]

Cannot really blame Jogia for their inability to take Idealscope image as most of the stones are online inventories, mostly oversea from Australia's POV and calling them in just to take images will be a cost to them. They can take idealscope images as shown by those stones they have in their inventories.

 

[Rickb26]

Guys,

My long awaited Idealscope image is in (attached).

What do you think?
To my untrained eye there are a few noticeable non-symmetrical items at 3, 7, & 11 o'clock (1 small black triangle instead of two?)

There seems to be some some scratching, scarring smudging? on the large arrows at 1:00 and 2:30 & 3:30?

Large arrows are not perfectly formed so assume that this is a manifestation of the less than Ideal symmetry?

Is there any crown vs pavilion misalignment?

JA suggest that the diamond has excellent light return, fire and brilliance.

I seem a little worried that compared to similar stones this one is much cheaper $6k vs $7-9K and so cannot work out why?

So another another plea for help

 

[0-0-0]

There seems to be some some scratching, scarring smudging? on the large arrows at 1:00 and 2:30 & 3:30?

Most likely the crystal, cloud inclusions as stated on the GIA report.

Large arrows are not perfectly formed so assume that this is a manifestation of the less than Ideal symmetry?

Yes, most likely. The IS and actual images match so it's unlikely that the less than ideal optical symmetry is due to stone tilt in photography.

Is there any crown vs pavilion misalignment?

JA suggest that the diamond has excellent light return, fire and brilliance.

I think there's obviously some kind of facet misalignment throughout the stone as most of the arrows are misaligned. The IS does not show any blatant leakage so I don't doubt JA's suggestion that the stone has excellent light return, fire and brilliance. It's likely to look better than the majority of stones out there, but it may not compare well with a stone with complete arrows and minimal leakage in my experience. In general, I find that the facets under the areas with incomplete/misaligned arrows tend to look less crisp and the on/off scintillation also takes a hit as the stone is moved around.

I seem a little worried that compared to similar stones this one is much cheaper $6k vs $7-9K and so cannot work out why?

I think the lower price reflects many things in this case. The most obvious discount is for the ct weight as there's a substantial increase in price for stones above 1ct. The lack of optical symmetry and the location/visibility of the inclusions may have been priced in the stone as well.

 

[Rickb26]

thanks thbmok, seems to all make sense.

My gut feel is to pass on this one and one retailer said to me recently, there are a hell of a lot of stones out there so no need to rush.

I just have 5 weeks to buy, inspect and design so am getting a little anxious.

Thanks to those who have responded so far.