Help please - need opinions on 2 round brilliants

[kat6]

Hi everyone,

My boyfriend and I are looking at diamonds. We have found a couple of stones that the vendor has given us the certificates for and we'd like your opinions on them please. Specifically, we're looking for opinions on the cut quality of these two stones:

Stone 1:
1.03 carats
Measurements: 6.59-6.63 x 3.94mm
Depth: 59.6%
Table: 57.5%
Crown angle: 34 degrees
Pavilion angle: 40.7 degrees
Cut: Excellent
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Girdle: Thin to medium (faceted)
Culet: Pointed
Fluorescence: None

It has an IGI trade certificate - is this something we should be concerned about? If we went ahead with it we would get it certified (if we can) and definitely appraised. The vendor's website lists a cut quality of "Ideal H&A".


Stone 2:
0.937 carats
Measurements: 6.28-6.32 x 3.86mm
Depth: 61.3%
Table: 56.3%
Crown angle: 34.5 degrees
Pavilion angle: 40.7 degrees
Cut: AGS Ideal 0
No polish or symmetry details
Girdle: Faceted, 1.3% to 3.9%
Culet: Pointed
Fluorescence: Negligible (does this mean none?)

This one has an AGS certificate and the vendor lists the cut quality as "Ideal" - no mention of H&A.


We ran the HCA and they both get good scores but want to check with the experts. Any guidance we could get in terms of cut quality would be greatly appreciated! Before the first stone I hadn't seen any with depth figures in the 50s - is 59.6 too shallow?? We haven't seen either of them in person yet.

Thanks heaps in advance

 

[Lorelei]

Welcome to Pricescope!

I prefer the second diamond, and it also has an AGS0 cut grade which is highly desirable. The first one appears to be well cut, but has an IGI report, you can read how the labs stack up in this page - http://diamonds.pricescope.com/grading.asp With the first diamond, the depth isn't too shallow in my opinion, more important is to look at the whole diamond, and how well the crown and pavilion angles work together.


As to fluorescence, here is a good description of the term negligible, quoted from Lesley at WF -

" The Gemological Committee of the AGS Labs felt that "inert" is too absolute a term and that depending on the strength of the long ultraviolet fluorescence source, some diamonds described as "inert" might exhibit a minute amount of fluorescence. They concluded with the fact that since the beauty of a diamond that is truly inert or exhibits "faint" fluorescence is not adversely affected in any way, the term "negligible" would be more appropriate and more accurate."

What are the colour and clarity grades of these diamonds please?

 

[kat6]

Thanks Lorelei, the first one is F colour and IF clarity; and the second is F colour and VVS1 clarity.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 7/23/2008 7:56:32 AM
Author: kat6
Thanks Lorelei, the first one is F colour and IF clarity; and the second is F colour and VVS1 clarity.

Thanks Kat! Did you purposely want such high clarity? It is of course entirely your preference, but I just wanted to point out that you could drop to VS comfortably and still have a very clean diamond, you could also lower the colour a bit if you wanted - but this is of course up to what you value most, if you prefer very high quality, then that is absolutely fine!

 

[kat6]

Yes, we both wanted to go for higher clarity and colour grades, but thanks for letting me know

.

Can I ask, if the first diamond had an AGS certificate (with the same grades as the IGI one), would that change your opinion? All the measurements are a bit confusing to me and I just can''t get my head around which pairings of angles and depth/table percentages are better.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 7/23/2008 8:13:06 AM
Author: kat6
Yes, we both wanted to go for higher clarity and colour grades, but thanks for letting me know

.

Can I ask, if the first diamond had an AGS certificate (with the same grades as the IGI one), would that change your opinion? All the measurements are a bit confusing to me and I just can't get my head around which pairings of angles and depth/table percentages are better.

The first diamond appears to be very well cut, if it had an AGS or GIA report, then I would definitely want to see an Idealscope image for it and investigate further. Also because the vendor's website says it is an " Ideal H&A" that is very much a matter of opinion - because a diamond may display these patterns, doesn't mean it is necessarily a true example of this cutting style.

 

[kat6]

Date: 7/23/2008 8:22:54 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 7/23/2008 8:13:06 AM

Author: kat6

Yes, we both wanted to go for higher clarity and colour grades, but thanks for letting me know

.


Can I ask, if the first diamond had an AGS certificate (with the same grades as the IGI one), would that change your opinion? All the measurements are a bit confusing to me and I just can''t get my head around which pairings of angles and depth/table percentages are better.

The first diamond appears to be very well cut, if it had an AGS or GIA report, then I would definitely want to see an Idealscope image for it and investigate further. Also because the vendor''s website says it is an '' Ideal H&A'' that is very much a matter of opinion - because a diamond may display these patterns, doesn''t mean it is necessarily a true example of this cutting style.

Thanks so much for your help! We''ll have to see if the vendor can get us images as I want to see the symmetry. I''m assuming I won''t be able to tell the difference between 0.937 and 1.03 since the size difference seems to be a third of a millimetre, so I''m happy to hear that the 0.937 seems to be well cut.

 

[honey22]

I would definately consider dropping down to at least VS1 or VS2 clarity - you are not going to see the inclusions, even with a loupe you will probably struggle, so why pay for something you are not going to actually see? You could get a lot more rock for that money

Are these stones from MDX by any chance? Just curious. If so, you might want to do a search here on them.

I would certainly trust AGS over that certificate. You can get it re-certified by GIA but it will cost you money and you will be without your stone for a few weeks, and I wonder if it is worth it? It would be a lot easier to simply find a stone with a more trusted lab grading it IMO.

 

[kat6]

Date: 7/24/2008 4:56:52 AM
Author: honey22
I would definately consider dropping down to at least VS1 or VS2 clarity - you are not going to see the inclusions, even with a loupe you will probably struggle, so why pay for something you are not going to actually see? You could get a lot more rock for that money

We wanted to go higher and we understand that it affects the price. It''s good to know that we can go down if we needed to, though

. I don''t really want to go any bigger anyway, my fingers are only small. Not as small as others I''ve seen on here by any means, but small enough that when I tried on rings I knew I didn''t want to go much bigger than a carat at the most. Even the 0.4 I tried at Tiffany looked pretty big on my finger!

Are these stones from MDX by any chance? Just curious. If so, you might want to do a search here on them.

They are indeed, was it the IGI trade report that gave it away?

I''ve searched them and am aware of the mixed experiences that people on here have had with them. A friend''s fiance got her stone from there, though, and they had nothing but positive feedback for them. Her stone (and setting) is gorgeous as well so that''s reassuring for me!

I would certainly trust AGS over that certificate. You can get it re-certified by GIA but it will cost you money and you will be without your stone for a few weeks, and I wonder if it is worth it? It would be a lot easier to simply find a stone with a more trusted lab grading it IMO.

That''s what I''m thinking at this point! Honestly, I''ll be happy no matter what we end up with

.

 

[honey22]

That''s fine. I totally understand the desire for a higher clarity etc. I paid a premium to have a D coloured stone as that''s just want I wanted, so if you want a high clarity go for it.

Yep, the IGI trade certificate gave it away! I think you can still get a great diamond at MDX, I personally just had trouble getting a stone with my particularly fussy requirements

If you are set on purchasing from MDX, I would then recommend you purchase something from their Ice Ideal H&A range - they are their premium cut stones and you will be safer purchasing one of those as they are a branded cut. I found it difficult to get IS images for stones, so I think it be less risky to pick one of these stones, due to the fact that you may find yourself having to pick a stone without seeing these IS images. The Ice Ideals are the highest quality they stock, and you will get a lovely stone in this range. I have seen some in real life and they are gorgeous. Chose one with either a GIA or AGS certificate, but personally, again for the simple fact you may not be able to get an IS image to confirm, I prefer an AGS certified stone, they are perfomance based and you can get a stone with a 0 for light performance (the highest grade). That way you are guaranteed a top perfoming stone.

 

[honey22]

http://www.diamondexchange.com.au/catalog/diamond_info.php?&catnum=1292069

What about this one? It's a smidgy bit smaller at 0.93ct, F VVS1, but is an Ice Ideal H&A with an AGS cert. You could request the crown and pav angles from the cert, and make sure it scored a 0 for light performance (they claim all their stones in this range do). It looks to be a good price compared to the others too?

I am a total dope - I just realised that is the stone you are looking at! Well, you can ignore all my babblings then - it is an Ice Ideal H&A with an AGS cert, so I think this would be your best choice from MDX! Should be a winner!

I found that when I tried to purchase stones with AGS certs, they quickly got sold overseas (where most of their AGS certed stones are held). They look available online but when you go to buy them, they are already sold overseas, so if you are interested, I would email them and ask them to reserve the stone for you. You don't want to miss out!

 

[kat6]

Date: 7/24/2008 7:10:39 AM
Author: honey22
You could request the crown and pav angles from the cert, and make sure it scored a 0 for light performance (they claim all their stones in this range do).

This may be a dumb question, but how do I tell if it scored a 0 for light performance? I''ve looked at the certificate and I can''t see it on there.

 

[honey22]

When they fax you the AGS cert, the whole thing doesn''t fit on the page! The light performance grade (from memory, mine cert is locked away in the safe) is in the top right hand side corner. When MDX faxed me the certs, this didn''t fit onto the page and I had to confirm with them by phone.

It is graded as AGS Ideal and they do say all their Ice Ideal H&A do score 0, so I would be 99.9% sure it does, but I would still feel better (yep, I am a bit neurotic!) to get confirmation from your rep.

Are you dealing with Annie She helped me when I was searching for my stone and she was very nice. I felt bad in the end as she couldn''t get me what i wanted and I ended up purchasing from Whiteflash in America.

 

[kat6]

Cool, thanks heaps for all your help!

I''m not sure who my boyfriend has been dealing with - it''s up to him now

.

 

[honey22]

Yay!!!

Hope he gets that baby on your hand ASAP! Don''t forget to post pics!!