Help, please! First time buyer. Are these diamond any good?

[meraki]

Hi All,

It's my first time purchasing an engagement ring and I've been reading and soaking up the knowledge on the site and in the forums. All have been very helpful, but I was wondering if I could get some advice.

My budget is around $9000-$10000. So far, I've only gotten replies from two vendors for two different diamonds (both round brilliants). Wondering if all of you could provide me some guidance and to see if they are good deals or not. Both HCAs are 4.1 (not sure what to make of this...). The vendors don't have idealscope unfortunately, but I have seen them in person and am leaning towards diamond 1.

I've converted them to USD as they were originally in CAD prices. Thanks everyone!

Diamond 1 ($9475.4
GIA #1156898112
Round Brilliant
Measurements: 6.49 - 6.52 x 3.99 mm
Carat Weight: 1.01 carat
Color Grade: D
Clarity Grade: VS2
Cut Grade: Excellent
Depth: 61.4 %
Table: 56 %
Crown Angle: 33.0°
Crown Height: 14.5%
Pavilion Angle: 41.6°
Pavilion Depth: 44.0%
Star Length: 50%
Lower Half: 80%
Girdle: Thin to Medium, Faceted, 3.0%
Culet : None
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Fluorescence: Medium Blue
Clarity Characteristics: Crystal, Cavity, Pinpoint, Indented Natural, Natural

Diamond 2 ($9608.21)
GIA #2151361486
Round Brilliant
Measurements: 6.39 - 6.41 x 4.01 mm
Carat Weight: 1.02 carat
Color Grade: E
Clarity Grade: VS2
Cut Grade: Very Good
Depth: 62.7 %
Table: 58 %
Crown Angle: 35.5°
Crown Height: 15.5%
Pavilion Angle: 41.0°
Pavilion Depth: 43.5%
Star Length: 55%
Lower Half: 75%
Girdle: Very Thin to Slightly Thick, Faceted, 4.0%
Culet : None
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Excellent
Fluorescence: None
Clarity Characteristics: Feather, Pinpoint, Natural

Again thank you everyone!

 

[dar7]

Re: Help, please! First time buyer. Are these diamond any go

I'd not buy until some of the usual pricescopers give you some other ideas, I think you can do much better than these two! Are you set on the D/E color? You can stay colorless but save some money by going up to F or go with a larger stone for same money perhaps?

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Help, please! First time buyer. Are these diamond any go

No.

#1 Low Crown.
#2 WAY too deep.

Here's what you need to know.

The entire purpose of faceting a diamond is to reflect light.
How well or how poorly a diamond does this determines how beautiful it is.
How well a diamond performs is determined by the angles and cutting. This is why we say cut is king.
No other factor: not color, not clarity has as much of an impact on the appearance of a diamond as its cut. An ideal H will out white a poorly cut F. And GIA Ex is not enough. And you must stick to GIA and AGS only. EGL is a bad option: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/[/URL]
So how to we ensure that we have the right angles and cutting to get the light performance we want?
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-cut
Well one method is to start with a GIA Ex, and then apply the HCA to it. YOU DO NOT USE HCA for AGS0 stones.
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/holloway-cut-advisor
The HCA is a rejection tool. Not a selection tool. It uses 4 data points to make a rudimentary call on how the diamond may perform.
If the diamond passes then you know that you are in the right zone in terms of angles for light performance. Under 2 is a pass. Under 2.5-2.1 is a maybe. 2.6 and over is a no. No score 2 and under is better than any other. Also try to stick to stones with crown angles between 34-36 and depth under 62.4.
Is that enough? Not really.
So what you need is a way to check actual light performance of your actual stone.
That's what an idealscope image does. https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/firescope-idealscope
It shows you how and wear your diamond is reflecting light, how well it is going at it, and where you are losing light return. That is why you won't see us recommending Blue Nile, as they do not provide idealscope images for their diamonds. BGD, James Allen, GOG, HPD, ERD and WF do.

The Idealscope is the 'selection tool'. Not the HCA.
So yes, with a GIA stone you need the idealscope images. Or you can buy an idealscope yourself and take it in to the jeweler you are working with to check the stones yourself. Or if you have a good return policy (full refund minimum 7 days) then you can buy the idealscope, buy the stone, and do it at home.


Now if you want to skip all that... stick to AGS0 stones and then all you have to do is pick color and clarity and you know you have a great performing diamond. Because AGS has already done the checking for you. That's why they trade at a premium.

 

[Diamondbug]

Re: Help, please! First time buyer. Are these diamond any go

Agree with Dar7 and Gypsy. Would not buy either of the stones. Did you do a diamond search under resources? You can set the filters to your specs and only to look for stones with ideal/very good cuts. I think it is a more proactive way of looking for stones from different vendors.

 

[AprilBaby]

Re: Help, please! First time buyer. Are these diamond any go

HCA 4.1 is not good. Go under 2

 

[meraki]

Re: Help, please! First time buyer. Are these diamond any go

Thanks for all your feedback!

I'm thinking of going down to a H color diamond but unsure if this will greatly affect the quality of the diamond.

Looks like it's back to the drawing board for me.

 

[Diamondbug]

Re: Help, please! First time buyer. Are these diamond any go

I'm thinking of going down to a H color diamond but unsure if this will greatly affect the quality of the diamond.

No one can answer this for you. I think it would be plenty white for me but you have to see some G/H/I colored stones to see what you think. I am ok with a J. I can only see tint when I put it next to my F and the tint was very slight and pleasant to me. I just know it is not icy white like an F or an E. I have not seen GIA graded G or H so can't tell you how they compare to D/E/F or I/J.... LOL was that any help at all?

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Help, please! First time buyer. Are these diamond any go

An ideal H will out white and out sparkle a poorly cut F.

So if it means stepping down to H to get better cut, it is normally work it. If you don't want to step down in color but want great cut the other option is to get a smaller stone.

On color:
It is important to remember is that color is graded FACE DOWN. Where there is NO light return. Not face up where there is light return and refraction. You wear diamonds set. FACE UP.

Within one color grade, even the labs can't agree on the color grades of stones and something could be a "high" H or a "low" E. So... no. Not really. Within 2 color grades it is hard. Not impossible. But very hard. And it gets harder once set. If you are talking ideal rounds, or any stone with ideal light return and no sharp corners it gets harder still because the ideal light return masks body color.

Generally we say to be conservative stay H and above.



If you are talking fancy shapes without ideal light return (because there is no 'ideal' for EC's Radiant, etc) it's a bit different.

This is how I think of it.

Ever gotten one of those HUGE paint fan decks? Where there are literally 100s of colors of whites? And when they are RIGHT next to each other you can TOTALLY tell that one is bluer/colder and one is a bit warmer and which one is one is TOTALLY warmer. One there's one that's slightly greener. One that's slightly pinker? But really. They are all white?

Then you pick one after agonizing over this white or that white and when it's on the walls and people are like: Oh. You painted again. And it's STILL white. Great.

And you're all... BUT it's BLUE white. Or it's a WARM white now. It used to be ____ white. It's TOTALLY different.

It's like that. You are talking about shades of white. D is colder... J is warmer. But it's all white.

YES. If you have an accurately graded F and an H THAT HAVE THE SAME PERFORMANCE you are going to be able to tell them apart when you compare them side by side. Just like you would be able to tell if you painted your walls a warm white, but painted the crown molding a cold/straight white. But both are STILL white, you only see the contrast because of the proximity. But it's very slight, you could set an F center with G sides and never tell the difference. And even H sides depending on the setting and the size of the sidestones... especially with round brilliants.


I want you notice all the qualifiers thought. I'm talking about stones with the SAME performance. An ideal H will out white an F that has compromised light performance from a poor cut.

NOTHING impacts the appearance of a diamond as much as cut. CUT is king.

You want the shinest whitest and brightest diamond out there: Cut is King. No other factor, not color or clarity or anything else impacts how white bright an shiny a stone is.

 

[meraki]

Re: Help, please! First time buyer. Are these diamond any go

Every insight certainly helps! and thank you Gypsy for such a detailed breakdown- it makes things much more understandable when you put it into terms like that lol. I've seen a H diamond, but haven't exactly compared it to any of the colorless graded diamonds. As Gypsy wrote, unless I have an accurately graded D E or F diamond to compare to an H with the exact same performance, it'd be pretty hard to tell the difference. I'm not set on the colourless diamonds so that should give me more options to look at... I'm just gonna have to take a look at each of them when time comes.

I have a meeting with a vendor on Monday and he actually told me he has a really good diamond to show me: 1.08ct, E color, VS1, triple excellent with a HCA score of 1.8, for $9531.26 (gia #1179751931). I'm going to visit him and use his idealscope to take a look, so I might have to bug you guys a little bit more hehehe

I've also taken all your advice and have been on whiteflash, brian gavin, and ja looking at all their diamonds. I've heard great things about them from my friends and in these forums, but I'm just a little uneasy about purchasing it through them because I live in Canada and I'm going to be dinged for the taxes and duties, putting it a little bit out of my budget. But if I can't find a quality diamond via a local vendor, I might just give up and go to them.

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Help, please! First time buyer. Are these diamond any go

If you live near the US border you can have the stone sent to a Fed Ex office near the border (US side) they will hold it for you (they won't let anyone pick it up without an ID) and you can pick it up from there and carry it across the border.

I don't know the legality of what you have to declare when you cross back, but I have heard it suggested to other Canadian posters.

The stone you are going to be shown sounds like a contender though.