Help on a stone, please!

[ro]

Hi! Thanks to everyone on their board for the great responses, it''s been so helpful in my search. I think i''ve found the perfect stone, on paper at least.

The specs are:
2.03c
G
SI2
VG, EX, EX
Depth: 59.8
Table: 57
Crown Angle: 33
Pavilion Angle: 40.6
Girdle Thin to Medium, Faceted

This achieves a 0.7 on the HCA. What does everyone think? I''m a little worried about the VG cut, but the measurements look good (depth maybe a bit small?) and the HCA score is fantastic. I still need to confirm price (expect 18K) and that this stone is eye clean. Any thoughts much appreciated. Thanks!

 

[Lorelei]

Hi ro,

This could be a nice diamond, can you ask the vendor for an Idealscope image? That would be very helpful if so. Is it with an online vendor?

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

Yes, pictures/plot would be helpful. What do you know of the inclusions?

cheers--Sharon

 

[Regular Guy]

Date: 9/5/2008 10:31:13 AM
Author:ro

This achieves a 0.7 on the HCA..... and the HCA score is fantastic.

Just thought I'd interrupt with some HCA nuances...

- Despite appearances that four excellents optimizes (which..unless you accept a bastardization of language, per Garry's system, it may)...
- His system does stipulate, (and seeks to correct the misimpression that lower is better), that many prefer diamonds that land between 1 - 2.
Some people hear have expressed concern about diamonds below 1...but these concerns, despite their validity...I do not believe...are ever really cleared by use of technology like idealscopes...for the sort of concerns they might raise.
- There are, to my mind, consistent with Garry's HCA system, advantages to the diamond crown & pavilion meet-up on the HCA chart appearing where they do in your case (consistent with the four excellents), at the center of the chart...making any possible lack of symmetry less of an issue for the optimization of optics, but...
- many here prefer when the "x marks the spot," instead, falls in the nexus of where GIA & AGS agree in their drawn boxes on the chart

So...consider this just a footnote, and reaction to your comment. I think it's likely the stone is lovely, and that the HCA will have served its purpose in helping you identify this option.

Warm regards,

 

[ro]

hmmm, the vendor won''t have an idealscope, not sure how i would go about getting one done either. I am going to see the stone in about an hour, anything in particular i should be looking out for? Clearly with an SI2 is should be vary of the inclusions. The GIA report make it seem like the majority of them are on the table, so that''s a bit worrisome. But if it''s eye-clean, i''m happy.

Regular Guy: I''m a bit perplexed by your post, and would like to understand it better. You believe that an HCA below 1 is OK? I would have thought lower the better, and reason that people prefer 1-2 is because it represents an excellent value as opposed to representing better optics. Is it a problem being outside the white and green boxes? You think XXXX on the HCA scale does not in fact optimize optics?

Thanks for all the help everyone!

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 9/5/2008 1:23:02 PM
Author: ro
hmmm, the vendor won''t have an idealscope, not sure how i would go about getting one done either. I am going to see the stone in about an hour, anything in particular i should be looking out for? Clearly with an SI2 is should be vary of the inclusions. The GIA report make it seem like the majority of them are on the table, so that''s a bit worrisome. But if it''s eye-clean, i''m happy.

Regular Guy: I''m a bit perplexed by your post, and would like to understand it better. You believe that an HCA below 1 is OK? I would have thought lower the better, and reason that people prefer 1-2 is because it represents an excellent value as opposed to representing better optics. Is it a problem being outside the white and green boxes? You think XXXX on the HCA scale does not in fact optimize optics?

Thanks for all the help everyone!

ro, the lower the HCA score does not mean one diamond is better than another, it is used for elimination, not for selection. Basically the aim is to score 2 or below in most cases ( although some diamonds scoring over 2 can be worth consideration in some cases), then evaluate with Idealscope, vendor advice and lastly your own eyes.

As Idealscope isn''t an option, the best thing you can do is to look at the diamond carefully, compare it with others and see if you can check it out away from the store lights in normal light where the diamond will be worn. Then you can see how it appeals to you.

 

[ro]

Thanks Lorelei, that makes sense. From a view of just the proportions of the stone, it seems to be well proportioned, right? There''s nothing too off?

 

[JulieN]

too shallow for me. check if it seems dark.

 

[Regular Guy]

Date: 9/5/2008 1:34:11 PM
Author: JulieN
too shallow for me. check if it seems dark.

Ostensibly...that''s the below 1 effect. I think an IS wouldn''t be sensitive to this.

 

[ro]

It would seem dark from looking directly at the table correct? What would be a better depth %?

 

[Lorelei]

The angles are on the shallower side which some think can lead to obstruction / contrast issues, just check the diamond out carefully in as many different lights as you can, to see if it still appeals to you, it might be fine and you could love the diamond. For the above reason some think these types of diamonds are better suited to pendants rather than rings, but see what you think when you see it - your own eyes and tastes are the best judge . Here is the video list, look for the obstruction video which may be helpful.

http://diamondscope.pricescope.com/

 

[Regular Guy]

Date: 9/5/2008 2:19:19 PM
Author: Lorelei
The angles are on the shallower side which some think can lead to obstruction / contrast issues, just check the diamond out carefully in as many different lights as you can, to see if it still appeals to you, it might be fine and you could love the diamond. For the above reason some think these types of diamonds are better suited to pendants rather than rings, but see what you think when you see it - your own eyes and tastes are the best judge . Here is the video list, look for the obstruction video which may be helpful.

http://diamondscope.pricescope.com/

Lorelei, Julie, Garry...

Doesn''t the text at the main HCA site, under Scintillation...try to account for these obstruction issues?

 

[JulieN]

Date: 9/5/2008 1:38:27 PM
Author: Regular Guy

Date: 9/5/2008 1:34:11 PM
Author: JulieN
too shallow for me. check if it seems dark.

Ostensibly...that''s the below 1 effect. I think an IS wouldn''t be sensitive to this.

I''ve seen overly shallow stones in IS before. THere''s more black.

 

[ro]

Hey everyone! So i just saw this stone i''ve been asking about, and i thought it was beautiful, asking price is about 17.8K.

I couldn''t really see a shadow effect people have mentioned, but i may not have known what exactly to look for.

Thanks for the video link, i''ll have to watch them when i get home.

My new question is now: i also saw this stone in comparision to the following stone:
2.04c
H
SI2
Ex, VG, Ex
Table: 58
Depth: 61.4
Crown Angle: 34.5
Pav Angle: 41.4

And the two look virtually identical. If anything this new stone seemed to have a bit of a flat glare on the table, but that was the only difference i could tell. This new stone is also 2K cheaper than the other. It doesn''t score well on the HCA, likely due to the pav angle. It scores a 4.8 (Good, Fair, Fair, VG) on the HCA. It was certainly difficult to distinguish between the two, even more suprising since the HCA scores are so different (0.7 vs 4.. Does anything seem off with this stone? Or worth the 2K? I am going to go with my girlfriend, and I''ll put the two next to each other and see which one she likes better and go from there. Or simply ask is there''s a 2K difference in her eyes.

thanks again for all the great help people!

 

[Lorelei]

The steep pav angle is what is influencing the HCA on the second diamond. Honestly any darkness may not be an issue with the first diamond, it could be perfectly fine. If you have seen the diamond and like it, that trumps everything! It can be prudent to look out for these things, but it isn''t always the case that undesirable effects will be a problem

I would get your GF to have a look, compare the two again away from the store lights and see which one wins!

 

[ro]

Thanks Lorelei! We went yesterday and my gf liked the original stone better (of course the more expensive one!). But that''s ok, as long as she likes it. She said it popped out more, and i definitely agreed, but not sure if it was to the extent of 2K worth. But i think it''s worth it since she likes it more (i told her one was more expensive, but not which one). I couldn''t really notice any darkness, nor could she. But again, not sure if we know what to look for. It was not in a showroom, rather a dealer''s very small office. So the lighting was mainly office fluorescent, or a direct fluorescent lamp that any dealer would have. Is that a good light source for viewing stones? We also looked at it under the table, away from any direct lights. It think it looked great in every case pretty much, and she liked it as well. I did notice a small inclusion on the table, but it was hard to find, and even when i looked for it again, i sometimes couldn''t find it. I don''t think that''s something to be worried about tho? Any other thoughts would be much appreciated, I''m going to try to get this for about 17.5K, and hopefully it works out. Thanks!

 

[Lorelei]

You are most welcome! I don't personally think this diamond is a particularly shallow stone, as you have seen and examined it, then I would think you are probably fine. I always recommend to check a diamond out away from the store lights in more natural daylight to see if the diamond still ' speaks' to you, so see if you can do that if possible. But it sounds as if you both like this diamond, we can only advise according to the info we have, you have seen it and like it, then that is the main thing!
What you could do is to get an independant appraisal on this diamond and make the sale final on it checking out to your satisfaction, if that would give you some peace of mind, here is a list of appraisers to find one in your area.

https://www.pricescope.com/appr_list.aspx