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Help - negotiating with Kays w/i 60 return policy window

Tunatax

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 5, 2013
Messages
6
So.

Let me start off by saying that the major reason I bought my e-ring from Kays was because of the financing they offer. I know that I can pay off the ring over 12 months. And I want to get married to this girl and start a family already, we've been together for the better part of a decade. and she deserves a ring with an excellent cut. I knew a little bit about diamonds going in. I could tell pretty easily that the rock in the ring was better than the others they had to offer.

guy took the rock out of a Kay's setting and put it in another one during an event. So it is a "split-set." The diamond is a "Tolkowsky"Princess cut diamond.

I bought the ring and the setting during some event Kays was having. They took the rock out of another ring and put it in another setting from some "botique"ish dealer that is somehow affiliated with them. The setting is great. USA made. the sidestones are clearly more colorless than the center stone (and I almost wish they weren't).

Here's the (I know, I know, the "worthless") GSI report on the diamond. Still well within the 90-day return policy but she does NOT take the ring off (I proposed to her about 15 min after I had the ring in my hands). Gemex rates everything at "very high."



So the cut is supposidly "ideal" but I've read in several places that this doesn;t really exist. my plan is to go back to Kays with Comps and try to get them to come down on the price more before my first payment kicks in. (I got him to come down 10% off where he started in the first place...)

Comps I find online for the diamond suggest that I overpaid by 50-75%. But I'm not sure if the Comps are really comps. I want to show him a GIA report and say "look, here is a GIA for basically the same diamond for 40% less"

Honestly... I really like the diamond. and I do think it is brilliant. and she loves it.

I just don't want to live with this buyers remorse for the rest of my life.

so... a few questions:

1) will Kays let me return *just* the diamond if I can find a better deal online?
2) Does any online dealer offer financing that I can live with and get? (My credit score isn't great but Kays seemed to give me credit based on what I make instead of my FICO score. Please spare me the lectures about luxury items on credit. I can afford the payments... but I couldn;t afford to wait any longer to "get a ring on it")
3) Is Gemex reliable at all? (again, my eyes tell me it is).
4) Does "Ideal" cut mean anything from GSI? (searches on Kay's website indicate that not all Tolkowskys are "Ideal cut")
5) What are my chances on getting Kays to come down further? When does the loss of the sale/hassle of the return make it worth it for them to make a deal after the fact once I come back armed with some more knowledge??


she loves the ring. so do her friends. but I feel like a bit of a fool. I was kind of impulsive about it.
 

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I think you had better start with talking to your girlfriend first. Let her know that you can get a much BIGGER and better cut diamond with the same amount of money you paid to Kays. If she's agreeable, problem's solved. Return it and get one ideal cut stone from Whiteflash or BrianGavin. If she explicitly says that she wants the Kays ring, then move on to plan B, which is to negotiate for a better price at Kays. You'll face an uphill battle there.
 
what about the financing. that's key here.. she's already looking for wedding venues.
 
diamondloveaffair|1370422098|3459265 said:
I think you had better start with talking to your girlfriend first. Let her know that you can get a much BIGGER and better cut diamond with the same amount of money you paid to Kays. If she's agreeable, problem's solved. Return it and get one ideal cut stone from Whiteflash or BrianGavin. If she explicitly says that she wants the Kays ring, then move on to plan B, which is to negotiate for a better price at Kays. You'll face an uphill battle there.

I'm sure you meant fiance... :-)
 
Good Old Gold, James Allen, Blue Nile and Brian Gavin all offer financing.
 
I guess I was just too impulsive to figure that out.

also,

I really liked the sales guy.

Think he'll let me just return the diamond??

hmmm.... now the trick is getting it off her hand.

I guess it could go one of two ways:

a) he knocks $1k off
or
b) I return the diamond.


just don't know how I'd back that threat up with action.

She loves the ring.

maybe I'm just being petty..

But that's the other thing... If I'm not looking at 0% at those other sites and/or not getting any financing (meaning they care about my FICA score), then I could end up paying the same anyway w/ interest and/or be out of luck.
 
but back to the substance of my post....

I'm really not trying to get into an "online is better than Kay" dispute here. That battle has been fought and won on this site time and time again as far as I can tell...


I just want to know...

Assuming the GSI is even legit (again - I just want to give Kay the Benefit of the doubt here as much as possible), are these other "comps" actually "comps"?

the thing that is throwing me off is the "Ideal Cut" thing. I read in another post that it means nothing.... but it APPEARS to mean something when comparing this particular diamond to another Kay diamond.

Would I be able to find out if I just got lucky here w/o voiding my Kay "warranties"?

I figure if I send it in to GIA or somewhere, they will take the stone out... pretty sure Kay would argue that voids any warranty... further diminishing the value provided by B+M...

Ohhh... and Sales tax...
 
Tunatax|1370429127|3459285 said:
but back to the substance of my post....

I'm really not trying to get into an "online is better than Kay" dispute here. That battle has been fought and won on this site time and time again as far as I can tell...


I just want to know...

Assuming the GSI is even legit (again - I just want to give Kay the Benefit of the doubt here as much as possible), are these other "comps" actually "comps"?

the thing that is throwing me off is the "Ideal Cut" thing. I read in another post that it means nothing.... but it APPEARS to mean something when comparing this particular diamond to another Kay diamond.

Would I be able to find out if I just got lucky here w/o voiding my Kay "warranties"?

I figure if I send it in to GIA or somewhere, they will take the stone out... pretty sure Kay would argue that voids any warranty... further diminishing the value provided by B+M...

Ohhh... and Sales tax...

The most important words in your thread are "she loves the ring" and "she won't take it off" and "she's already looking at wedding venues." You did well, Tunatax! You got what sounds like a very pretty and sparkly princess cut in a setting your fiancee loves, that you both got to see in person. Did you pay too much? Yes -- Kay's is more expensive than buying online. But you got some benefits for paying the higher price -- a salesperson you liked working with, the chance to see the ring and diamond in person and compare it to other diamonds and settings, and the financing. And remember, happy wife = happy life. There is nothing wrong with upgrading her ring in the future -- for an anniversary present, to mark the birth of a child, a job promotion, etc. There's probably no harm in talking to her about these other options, but it sounds like she's over the moon about the ring and ready to move on to planning your wedding and your lives together as a married couple -- messing with the ring (and her feelings about the ring) might create some negative feelings during what should be a happy time. And I'm saying this as a person who is not a fan of Kay's!

ETA: Re negotiating with Kay on the price, and to answer your question about "ideal cut" and princess cuts, AGS does grade princess cut diamonds as ideal, I believe. Whiteflash and Good Old Gold and Brian Gavin and Crafted by Infinity Diamonds all sell their house brands of AGS graded princess cut diamonds. Kay may have a similar deal with Tolkowsky, which is a very respected diamond cutting company. I've never seen a Tolkowsky brand princess cut, but I have seen Tolkowsky brand rounds, and they are nicely cut. So without knowing more about Tolkowsky cut princess cut diamonds, it's not really possible to say if GIA princess cuts (many of which are not attractive or well-cut) would be comparable to a branded princess cut graded as ideal by AGS. Before negotiating with Kay, you'll need to do more research on Tolkowsky princess cuts to know what you really bought and how it compares to other well-cut princess diamonds. The GSI report is not worth the paper/plastic it's printed on -- it has very little information about the diamond. Can you post photos of the actual ring?
 
You need to return the whole ring and tell her you are going to get her a better one. Tell her you bought impulsively and you shouldn't have because you could have gotten better quality for a better price elsewhere. You might even be able to get her a larger stone. Comps don't mean much without pictures. For square stones, I suggest Good Old Gold because they sell several styles of square/cushion stones and they have a ton of setting vendors. The provide pictures and light performance info on all stones. They have interest free for 6 months, I think.

Can you show us a picture of the setting to see if we know of a setting that is similar (or even the exact same setting)? But they might let you return the diamond and buy the setting, but you need to see if their price is fair for that, too.
 
I would first start off by taking a look at videos comparing princess cut diamond optics.

For the price you paid for that stone you could easily keep the setting-return the stone-and get a much better cut and finance it at GOG or one of the other vendors.

I would be honest with her. Tell her that you were SO excited to buy her a diamond ring and get engaged that you didn't research very well and you could have gotten her a much sparklier diamond for the money. Then both of you can take a look at these comparison videos and decide if you want to go the return and get a new stone route.

This is a great way to start out your relationship together-honesty-research-and then making the decision together on what you want to do about it.

Here is a link to GOG about the "common" princess cut
http://www.goodoldgold.com/ShapeTutorials/CommonPrincess/

http://www.goodoldgold.com/ShapeTutorials/Princess-Cut/

Princess cut comparison videos


http://vimeo.com/5239762



http://vimeo.com/64462304

http://vimeo.com/9687632

http://vimeo.com/9944483

I would also go down in clarity (I would go VS2 or even eye clean SI1 or SI2) which will also give you a larger stone or a better stone in the same size for the same $.


http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/10163/
 
Tell the SA that you want to return it because you are pretty sure you overpaid. Let him know that you GF likes it but...you
realized you can get the same thing for $1k less. See if they start "working" with you on the cost. If they dont then you'll
have to go with plan B and talk with the GF about returning just the stone. If the GF doesnt like that idea, then I would
keep the ring and chalk it up to a lesson learned.

You have a couple of things that make it difficult to return the ring (without more investigation)
- dont know about financing at other vendors and whether you can get it or not
- your GF loves the ring

Before you do anything, I would contact some of the vendors that offer financing and make sure you can get it. If you cant,
then the only option is to try to get the SA to lower the price.

Try to find out more about the stone you got and how good it is compared to other stones that you can get. You'll need
this info to talk to your GF about changing the stone out.

I think this is really a delicate subject so I would approach the GF gently with all the information you have collected. Tell
her that you could pick out the new stone together. Show her some of the stones on line. And please...come back and talk
to us about the stones you are looking at before you buy. We have many collective years of looking at stones and aset images.

Hoping it all goes smoothly! Engagement rings can be so emotional.
 
I agree with most of the advise here. If if two of you are going to journey through life together, now is a good time to learn to make decisions together. Let her know the situation honestly and get her take on it. As mentioned, you have to do it tactfully as she Is over the moon and you don't want to put a damper on the current happy mood. This is the ring you proposed her with and it might be she wouldn't even consider returning it. If she does however, your options are then wide open.

If she doesn't want to return it, then you could Ty your luck with Kay's, or you could let it go. Trying to negotiate with Kay's could go either way. If you get some money back, its a happy ending. If negotiations turn sour, it'll just put a damper on the whole ring affair, especially as you're financing it for the next 12 months, which might just remind you each time you pay.

With regards to buyers remorse, if she doesn't want to return it, well, was the ring worth it ? While everyone wants to get a good deal, what was the true purpose me the ring ? If it's to make a girl happy, well, I think it did pretty well !
 
I say keep the ring, especially if she loves loves loves it.
If financing is a big part of the issue, you would be best first to get financing through a major place, Discover, Visa etc....which is not as easy sometimes and may have a large interest rate. And then return the ring and go to one of the places everyone suggests on here.
 
If she loves it, be happy with the ring you got. You can afford the financing. Chalk it up to impulse and move on.
 
You say she loves the ring and is happy with it so I think you should just keep the ring.
 
I disagree with the line of reasoning that if she's happy, you should keep it. Of course she's happy with the ring - she just got engaged and it's an exciting time for her/them, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the situation can't be better (for both of them). I had the same sort of experience with a princess cut E-ring from a large chain jeweler (we also fell for the financing and impulsively purchased a ring without really shopping around and/or being educated). Although I was very happy about the ring at the time of the engagement, we both later had regrets that the ring was not the quality or value that we initially believed it to be.
Clearly, he has regret and knows that he could have done better. Communication and honesty are two key components of any healthy relationship, and since these two are just starting out on their journey together, why not be open and honest with her about the ring purchase? She may choose to keep it or exchange it, but at least he will have communicated with her and offered an opportunity to make it better.
 
GSI has looser grading than GIA so when you are looking at comparable prices you have to go down by 2 grades in color and 1 grade in clarity to get a true comparison. Or you compare prices with IGI or something like that for the same grading. It's not going to be apples to apples. Also, I would likely compare it to VERY GOOD rated diamond versus EXCELLENT if you are using GIA. Then you will get a better idea of how much you over paid.

Can you show us a picture of the ring that you want to keep?
 
Could you spin it that you can get the same thing for a better price online, which would give you more money in the wedding budget toward venues, honeymoon, wedding ring, whatever else?
 
So what happened?
 
AprilBaby|1371331080|3466608 said:
So what happened?

We've practically picked a place for the reception already. I still haven't had the chance to get down to Kays.
 
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