Help need for a first time buyer

[firstimebuyer]

Hi All,

I''ve been following the posts on this forum, its very very helpful. After seeing many rocks I have my eyes set on this diamond below.
I wanted to tap into your expertise and see if this diamond is 1) good and 2) if its a good deal.

Round Brilliant
Measurements: 7.67 - 7.72 x 4.83 mm
Carat Weight: 1.74
Color Grade: I
Clarity Grade: VS1
Cut Grade: Very Good
Proportions:
Depth: 62.8 %
Table: 57 %
Crown Angle: 35.5°
Crown Height: 15.5 %
Pavilion Angle: 41.4°
Pavilion Depth: 44 %
Star length: 50 %
Lower Half: 75 %
Girdle: Thin to Medium, Faceted
Culet: None
Finish:
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Fluorescence: Medium Blue

I''ve read that the MB fluorescence makes the I color look a grade higher. I''ve actually seen the rock under sun light and it looks pretty good to me, then again i''m no expert.

The cost for this diamond is $13200

Thanks in advance for all your help.

 

[JulieN]

I wouldn''t buy that angle combo.

 

[Skippy123]

Hi 1sttimebuyer, if you want we can help you look if you like???

ditto, what Julie said. This is what you can use to compare prices http://www.pricescope.com/diamond-prices.aspx

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 6/24/2008 12:29:34 AM
Author:firstimebuyer
Hi All,

I''ve been following the posts on this forum, its very very helpful. After seeing many rocks I have my eyes set on this diamond below.
I wanted to tap into your expertise and see if this diamond is 1) good and 2) if its a good deal.

Round Brilliant
Measurements: 7.67 - 7.72 x 4.83 mm
Carat Weight: 1.74
Color Grade: I
Clarity Grade: VS1
Cut Grade: Very Good
Proportions:
Depth: 62.8 %
Table: 57 %
Crown Angle: 35.5°
Crown Height: 15.5 %
Pavilion Angle: 41.4°
Pavilion Depth: 44 %
Star length: 50 %
Lower Half: 75 %
Girdle: Thin to Medium, Faceted
Culet: None
Finish:
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Fluorescence: Medium Blue

I''ve read that the MB fluorescence makes the I color look a grade higher. I''ve actually seen the rock under sun light and it looks pretty good to me, then again i''m no expert.

The cost for this diamond is $13200

Thanks in advance for all your help.

this one has the same specs as the one my friend bought back from HK. deep cut !

 

[Lorelei]

Welcome to Pricescope!

The diamond is a bit heavy on depth and is what we call a steep deep - the crown and pavilion angles are too steep and deep for the best performance, the diamond may look dark and leak light, I would pass unless you love it, and even then check it out in as many different lights as you can, and compare with others to be sure.

Here are some numbers you can use to look for others which should help.

depth - 62 - 62.4% ( my personal cutoff.)
table - 54- 57%
crown angle - 34 - 35 deg
pavilion angle - 40.6 - 41 deg
polish and symmetry - very good and above
girdle - avoid extremes look for thin to slighly thick, thin to medium etc.

* with the crown and pavilion angles on the shallower ends ( CA 34/ PA 40.6) and steeper ( CA 35/ PA 41) make sure to evaluate with Idealscope and trusted vendor input to make sure the angles are complimentary in that particular diamond.

 

[Indira-London]

Date: 6/24/2008 4:35:38 AM
Author: Lorelei
Welcome to Pricescope!

The diamond is a bit heavy on depth and is what we call a steep deep - the crown and pavilion angles are too steep and deep for the best performance, the diamond may look dark and leak light, I would pass unless you love it, and even then check it out in as many different lights as you can, and compare with others to be sure.

Here are some numbers you can use to look for others which should help.

depth - 62 - 62.4% ( my personal cutoff.)
table - 54- 57%
crown angle - 34 - 35 deg
pavilion angle - 40.6 - 41 deg
polish and symmetry - very good and above
girdle - avoid extremes look for thin to slighly thick, thin to medium etc.

* with the crown and pavilion angles on the shallower ends ( CA 34/ PA 40.6) and steeper ( CA 35/ PA 41) make sure to evaluate with Idealscope and trusted vendor input to make sure the angles are complimentary in that particular diamond.

Lorelei and the other consumers here as usual give such good advice that would beat a lot of the "pile them high and sell them cheap" vendors in many high st and diamond trading areas (e.g. Hatton Gardens in the UK).

However, I am slightly confused by the depth-range that Lorelei has indicated here. Do you mean to aim between 62.0 and 62.4, or is it a recommendation to stay below 62, at the most 62.4? I see no problem in a depth of 61.5 or 61.0. Of course numbers go only so far, hence I totally agree with Lorelei''s advice to see/compare that diamond to others as well as look at their idealscope and ASET analyses.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 6/24/2008 6:53:44 AM
Author: Indira-London

Date: 6/24/2008 4:35:38 AM
Author: Lorelei
Welcome to Pricescope!

The diamond is a bit heavy on depth and is what we call a steep deep - the crown and pavilion angles are too steep and deep for the best performance, the diamond may look dark and leak light, I would pass unless you love it, and even then check it out in as many different lights as you can, and compare with others to be sure.

Here are some numbers you can use to look for others which should help.

depth - 62 - 62.4% ( my personal cutoff.)
table - 54- 57%
crown angle - 34 - 35 deg
pavilion angle - 40.6 - 41 deg
polish and symmetry - very good and above
girdle - avoid extremes look for thin to slighly thick, thin to medium etc.

* with the crown and pavilion angles on the shallower ends ( CA 34/ PA 40.6) and steeper ( CA 35/ PA 41) make sure to evaluate with Idealscope and trusted vendor input to make sure the angles are complimentary in that particular diamond.

Lorelei and the other consumers here as usual give such good advice that would beat a lot of the 'pile them high and sell them cheap' vendors in many high st and diamond trading areas (e.g. Hatton Gardens in the UK).

However, I am slightly confused by the depth-range that Lorelei has indicated here. Do you mean to aim between 62.0 and 62.4, or is it a recommendation to stay below 62, at the most 62.4? I see no problem in a depth of 61.5 or 61.0. Of course numbers go only so far, hence I totally agree with Lorelei's advice to see/compare that diamond to others as well as look at their idealscope and ASET analyses.

AAAAGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Great catch Indira!!!! I meant to say 60 - 62.4% as my depth preference - please forgive me!!!!!

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 6/24/2008 4:35:38 AM
Author: Lorelei
Welcome to Pricescope!

The diamond is a bit heavy on depth and is what we call a steep deep - the crown and pavilion angles are too steep and deep for the best performance, the diamond may look dark and leak light, I would pass unless you love it, and even then check it out in as many different lights as you can, and compare with others to be sure.

see many of these from GIA now....
were the cutter cut as steep and deep as they can and still receive an excellent cut grade from GIA. as i said above....my friend bought a 2 ct in HK with the identical specs.

 

[firstimebuyer]

Thank you so much for all your valuable advice. really really appreciated. I''m going to go back and take a look at the rock again today.

Question to Dancing Fire,
What do you mean by Mind Clean over eye clean? Also as for the Steep Deep diamonds, how can i test to see if it leaks light?

Again i really appreciate everyone for their feedbacks.

 

[Indira-London]

Date: 6/24/2008 6:56:43 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 6/24/2008 6:53:44 AM
Author: Indira-London

Date: 6/24/2008 4:35:38 AM
Author: Lorelei
Welcome to Pricescope!

The diamond is a bit heavy on depth and is what we call a steep deep - the crown and pavilion angles are too steep and deep for the best performance, the diamond may look dark and leak light, I would pass unless you love it, and even then check it out in as many different lights as you can, and compare with others to be sure.

Here are some numbers you can use to look for others which should help.

depth - 62 - 62.4% ( my personal cutoff.)
table - 54- 57%
crown angle - 34 - 35 deg
pavilion angle - 40.6 - 41 deg
polish and symmetry - very good and above
girdle - avoid extremes look for thin to slighly thick, thin to medium etc.

* with the crown and pavilion angles on the shallower ends ( CA 34/ PA 40.6) and steeper ( CA 35/ PA 41) make sure to evaluate with Idealscope and trusted vendor input to make sure the angles are complimentary in that particular diamond.

Lorelei and the other consumers here as usual give such good advice that would beat a lot of the ''pile them high and sell them cheap'' vendors in many high st and diamond trading areas (e.g. Hatton Gardens in the UK).

However, I am slightly confused by the depth-range that Lorelei has indicated here. Do you mean to aim between 62.0 and 62.4, or is it a recommendation to stay below 62, at the most 62.4? I see no problem in a depth of 61.5 or 61.0. Of course numbers go only so far, hence I totally agree with Lorelei''s advice to see/compare that diamond to others as well as look at their idealscope and ASET analyses.

AAAAGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Great catch Indira!!!! I meant to say 60 - 62.4% as my depth preference - please forgive me!!!!!

No problem and no harm done!

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 6/24/2008 9:29:49 AM
Author: firstimebuyer
Thank you so much for all your valuable advice. really really appreciated. I'm going to go back and take a look at the rock again today.

Question to Dancing Fire,
What do you mean by Mind Clean over eye clean? Also as for the Steep Deep diamonds, how can i test to see if it leaks light?

Again i really appreciate everyone for their feedbacks.

Until DF comes back, Mind Clean is a term he coined a few years ago. It means that some have certain standards in mind for buying their diamond - for example, a person could buy a perfectly eyeclean SI1 clarity diamond, but they very much prefer VS clarity, so the SI diamond could never really be acceptable for them in their mind - they would always be concerned that they had settled for a lesser quality than they really wanted. The diamond would therefore not be mind clean to them.

So DancingFire is saying that it can be easier to find a diamond which is clean to the eye, rather than one which is ' mindclean.'

What you want to do with this diamond is to check it out in as many different lights as you can, to make sure it doesn't look dark particularly under the table, and that you like the look of it in most lights. Diamonds don't sparkle all the time, but they should still look attractive even in ' rest mode' - when the light is not conducive to sparkle. If you had time, you could order an Idealscope which would be very useful for helping you with this.

Here is a link for Idealscope, the beginner scope would be fine - http://www.ideal-scope.com/cart_order.asp

This is how Idealscope works and is used - https://www.pricescope.com/idealscope_indx.asp

 

[Lorelei]

Thanks Indira - I am so glad you caught that!!!

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 6/24/2008 9:39:45 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 6/24/2008 9:29:49 AM
Author: firstimebuyer
Thank you so much for all your valuable advice. really really appreciated. I''m going to go back and take a look at the rock again today.

Question to Dancing Fire,
What do you mean by Mind Clean over eye clean? Also as for the Steep Deep diamonds, how can i test to see if it leaks light?

Again i really appreciate everyone for their feedbacks.

Until DF comes back, Mind Clean is a term he coined a few years ago. It means that some have certain standards in mind for buying their diamond - for example, a person could buy a perfectly eyeclean SI1 clarity diamond, but they very much prefer VS clarity, so the SI diamond could never really be acceptable for them in their mind - they would always be concerned that they had settled for a lesser quality than they really wanted. The diamond would therefore not be mind clean to them.

So DancingFire is saying that it can be easier to find a diamond which is clean to the eye, rather than one which is '' mindclean.''

What you want to do with this diamond is to check it out in as many different lights as you can, to make sure it doesn''t look dark particularly under the table, and that you like the look of it in most lights. Diamonds don''t sparkle all the time, but they should still look attractive even in '' rest mode'' - when the light is not conducive to sparkle. If you had time, you could order an Idealscope which would be very useful for helping you with this.

Here is a link for Idealscope, the beginner scope would be fine - http://www.ideal-scope.com/cart_order.asp

This is how Idealscope works and is used - http://www.pricescope.com/idealscope_indx.asp

my Brit GF !

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 6/24/2008 9:48:03 AM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 6/24/2008 9:39:45 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 6/24/2008 9:29:49 AM
Author: firstimebuyer
Thank you so much for all your valuable advice. really really appreciated. I''m going to go back and take a look at the rock again today.

Question to Dancing Fire,
What do you mean by Mind Clean over eye clean? Also as for the Steep Deep diamonds, how can i test to see if it leaks light?

Again i really appreciate everyone for their feedbacks.

Until DF comes back, Mind Clean is a term he coined a few years ago. It means that some have certain standards in mind for buying their diamond - for example, a person could buy a perfectly eyeclean SI1 clarity diamond, but they very much prefer VS clarity, so the SI diamond could never really be acceptable for them in their mind - they would always be concerned that they had settled for a lesser quality than they really wanted. The diamond would therefore not be mind clean to them.

So DancingFire is saying that it can be easier to find a diamond which is clean to the eye, rather than one which is '' mindclean.''

What you want to do with this diamond is to check it out in as many different lights as you can, to make sure it doesn''t look dark particularly under the table, and that you like the look of it in most lights. Diamonds don''t sparkle all the time, but they should still look attractive even in '' rest mode'' - when the light is not conducive to sparkle. If you had time, you could order an Idealscope which would be very useful for helping you with this.

Here is a link for Idealscope, the beginner scope would be fine - http://www.ideal-scope.com/cart_order.asp

This is how Idealscope works and is used - http://www.pricescope.com/idealscope_indx.asp

my Brit GF !

My American BF!

 

[firstimebuyer]

ahhh....i see.
Based on my situation, do you think i can considered myself mind clean.
The specs of the diamond was what i was looking for was something around:
Size:1.65 to 2.
Clarity: VS1
Color: I or H color with MB Fluorescences
Price 13000 to 14000 price range.
Cut: VG or EX
Polish: VG or EX
SYM: VG or EX

 

[Lorelei]

No fluoro, but $15785 if you pay by wire transfer - http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-906728.htm

This one - http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/4496/

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1166839.asp?b=16&a=12&c=77&cid=131

 

[Ellen]

Date: 6/24/2008 9:54:58 AM
Author: Lorelei

My American BF!

There ya go again. What's ed gonna think?

Firsttime, Lorelei picked 3 fantastic stones. I'd go for the JA stone first. (although do note their upgrade policy)

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 6/24/2008 11:08:29 AM
Author: Ellen

Date: 6/24/2008 9:54:58 AM
Author: Lorelei

My American BF!

There ya go again. What''s ed gonna think?

Firsttime, Lorelei picked 3 fantastic stones. I''d go for the JA stone first. (although do note their upgrade policy)

 

[Ellen]

 

[firstimebuyer]

Thanks again everyone for your inputs. So i went back to the store and looked at the diamond again. Saw it under a ideal scope, looked pretty good to me, the hearts and arrows were in pretty good shape, didn''t see much leaks (then again i''m no expert).

So i''m a bit confuse, should i be focusing more on the 4C''s or the proportion of the diamond? Which one would have a greater impact over brilliance or the WOW factor of the diamond.

again your help would be much appreciated.
Thanks in advance

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 6/30/2008 3:51:23 PM
Author: firstimebuyer
Thanks again everyone for your inputs. So i went back to the store and looked at the diamond again. Saw it under a ideal scope, looked pretty good to me, the hearts and arrows were in pretty good shape, didn't see much leaks (then again i'm no expert).

So i'm a bit confuse, should i be focusing more on the 4C's or the proportion of the diamond? Which one would have a greater impact over brilliance or the WOW factor of the diamond.

again your help would be much appreciated.
Thanks in advance

Cut is the number one determinant of brilliance and light return and general wow factor. Unless it is super duper included, the others 4 Cs will not affect light performance and will mostly be personal/budget preference.

Although many people will tell you to "trust your eyes", and since you looked at it and liked it, then you should buy it, I would be hesitant to completely trust them eyes unless you have seen a wide range of diamonds in a wide range of lighting conditions to allow you to develop you eyes a little

. In the lighting in jewelry stores all diamonds look the same, so look at it in a variety of lighting conditions and be sure to try and see some true super ideals to help you know that you are making a choice you will be happy with.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 6/30/2008 4:26:45 PM
Author: dreamer_dachsie

Cut is the number one determinant of brilliance and light return and general wow factor. Unless it is super duper included, the others 4 Cs will not affect light performance and will mostly be personal/budget preference.

Ditto Ddax, cut is so important, that is what will give you a beautiful diamond.

 

[ikonos]

firsttimebuyer - I recommend spending some time reading this tutorial at http://diamonds.pricescope.com/. You will be more informed to make a choice.