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Help me with this GIA VG cut stone...

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holymuchos

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 19, 2007
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So I have been visiting the local "mom&pop" jewelers around my area and found this GIA VG cut 1.01 diamond that I really liked. As I am still a noob, please give me your expert opinions. I am aware that it scores a 3.5 on the HCA. It did have great visual symmetry (which I value), and the inclusions were not visible to my naked eye (which is good). We looked at it under one of those devices that shows the hearts and arrows, which it did display quite nicely.

Here is the details on the stone:
6.35 x 6.39 x 3.94mm
Carat: 1.01
Cut: Very Good
Color: H
Clarity: SI2
Total Depth: 61.9%
Table Size: 59%
Crown Angle: 34.0
Crown Height: 14.0%
Pavilion Angle: 41.2
Pavilion Depth: 43.5%
Star Length: 55%
Lower Half: 75%
Girdle: Medium to Thick, Faceted(4.8%)
Cutlet: None
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Very Good
Fluorescence: None


My requirements in a diamond:
Excellent light return and fire
Eye clean table up
Upper limit at H color (in well cut H''s I can''t tell that it''s yellowish unless it''s next to a D/E... however it does start to show at I''s)

Her requirements:
At least 1.00 ct (darn those girls and their strict requirements...
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So is this diamond up to par? or should I be looking at others? When I go back in later this week, I told her to show me a GIA EX cut one as well, so when I look at both next to each other, and under the H&A viewer, what EXACTLY should I be looking for to help me decide if this stone (listed above) is a good purchase?

Thanks,
Philip
 
GIA would have or could have given this stone excellent except for the girdle being Thick. HCA is penalizing it for that too.

It is possible the pavilion angle is nearer 41.1, and crown lower near 33.8 and table near 58.6% which would help it and its HCA score. But also it can be 41.29, 34,24 and 59.4%
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There is a good arguement that HCA should accept up to 3.0 for stones that have great symmetry.
Also if this stone is slightly painted it would improve its appearance slightly.

The only downside is that the stone would show the dirt a little more than some others.
 
If you are looking for the best cut stone, you haven''t found it. If you are looking for an above average performer than this might be right for you. The table is a tad large which will produce a larger and in my opinion distracting table glare. As you mentioned the HCA isn''t great. In addition, the diamond is facing up a tad small...which must be due to the thick girdle since the depth is not overly deep and the table is large. How much is the stone? It''s very possible that you might be able to find a better cut stone for less money from a trusted online vendor.
 
Thank you both for your speedy replies.

With Tacori #2565 (retail around $2600) in platinum and this stone mounted, my price out the door was quoted at $6800.

I believe I can get the Tacori by itself for around $2000 from another dealer. So given a budget of $7000, that leaves me with no more than $5000 for the stone. Is an excellent cut ~1.0ct possible at this price? BTW, I am very open to buying online from a reputable dealer if I can get a better stone for cheaper.

So to take away from what you both said:
1) The girdle is a bit thick (which may be hiding the weight and makes the spread smaller than other, more ideal, 1ct''s?)
2) The table is a bit large (should I be shooting for a 58,57?)

Thanks again,
Philip
 
Date: 9/17/2007 4:35:13 PM
Author: holymuchos
Thank you both for your speedy replies.

With Tacori #2565 (retail around $2600) in platinum and this stone mounted, my price out the door was quoted at $6800.

I believe I can get the Tacori by itself for around $2000 from another dealer. So given a budget of $7000, that leaves me with no more than $5000 for the stone. Is an excellent cut ~1.0ct possible at this price? BTW, I am very open to buying online from a reputable dealer if I can get a better stone for cheaper.

So to take away from what you both said:
1) The girdle is a bit thick (which may be hiding the weight and makes the spread smaller than other, more ideal, 1ct''s?)
2) The table is a bit large (should I be shooting for a 58,57?)

Thanks again,
Philip
Click to expand...
I prefer tables in the 55-57 range, 54 if you really like fire, 58 if you really like bright white light. I''ll do some looking around for well-cut one carat stones in a minute and I bet others will chime in.
 
I found some extremely well-cut stones for you to check out that are in your budget:

Here is a lovely 1.07 I/SI2 "A cut above" from whiteflash which would be well under 5k with the 5% pricescope discount (have to ask for this): http://whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-260699.htm
-I wouldn''t worry too much about going down to an I in color. Since the stone is well-cut, it should face up very white. Ask if it''s eye clean before purchase since it''s an SI2.

This .92 H/VS2 would be in your budget after the pricescope discount if you want something a little higher in color/clarity, but it''s a little smaller than a one carat stone. http://whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-395303.htm

Here is a gorgeous 1 carat I/SI for $4500 that is really well-cut despite the "expert selection" rather than ACA: http://whiteflash.com/round_ideal_cut/Round-Ideal-Cut-cut-diamond-358379.htm#

Here is another very nice ES 1.03 H/SI2 for $4700: http://whiteflash.com/round_ideal_cut/Round-Ideal-Cut-cut-diamond-358374.htm#

1.01 G/SI2 for $4700: http://whiteflash.com/round_ideal_cut/Round-Ideal-Cut-cut-diamond-358378.htm#

So...there are definitely more well-cut stones out there that are one carat for less money online. There are many more available at other vendors like jamesallen.com, etc. but I stopped looking because these are all really awesome stones!
 
WOW, thank you so much kcoursolle!! It seems that I have more work to do if I really want to find a great stone. I am still going to go in to the jeweler this weekend to check out this stone vs. a GIA excellent cut at the same size. I really want to see the difference between the two as per my own eyes.

One big question I have: are there certain measurements that would result in automatic "rejects" before I even see the diamond? (ie, tables above XXX, crown/pavilion angles outside XXX, etc.)

Thanks again guys/gals!! This truly is an eye-opening experience!!
Philip
 
Date: 9/17/2007 6:21:30 PM
Author: holymuchos
WOW, thank you so much kcoursolle!! It seems that I have more work to do if I really want to find a great stone. I am still going to go in to the jeweler this weekend to check out this stone vs. a GIA excellent cut at the same size. I really want to see the difference between the two as per my own eyes.

One big question I have: are there certain measurements that would result in automatic ''rejects'' before I even see the diamond? (ie, tables above XXX, crown/pavilion angles outside XXX, etc.)

Thanks again guys/gals!! This truly is an eye-opening experience!!
Philip
Click to expand...
This largely boils down to preferences...but here are my preferences of what I would *only* consider in a stone. Some are less picky than me, others are more picky. I basically would reject anything outside of this criteria because there are so many well-cut stones out there that you shouldn''t have to settle.

Depth: 60-62.3
Table: 54-58
Crown/pavillion: numbers consistent with a HCA score of 2 or under
Polish/Symmetry: at least VG/VG
Girdle: basically anything besides ext thin or ext thick, and variation that isn''t too large
 
Date: 9/17/2007 2:59:13 PM
Author:holymuchos
or should I be looking at others? When I go back in later this week, I told her to show me a GIA EX cut one as well...
Thanks,
Philip
Click to expand...
Since most people have computers these days...why not ask them to use theirs, and have them bring you a diamond scoring between 0 - 2 on the HCA. If they won''t...they can know you could find a jeweler who will.

It''s not that hard, there''s lots of diamonds out there, and you typically don''t pay a premium to speak of for this feature.
 
All good feedback, thanks everyone!!

These are the measurements of the Excellent cut I will be looking at when I go back there to compare with the VG cut from before:
Depth:61.8%
Table%:56%
Crown Angle:35.0
Crown Height: 15.5%
Pavillion angle:40.8
Girdle:Thin to medium, faceted (3.2%)
Symmetry: Excellent

This one scores a 1.6 on the HCA, vs the 3.5 from before. Hopefully this one will be eye clean AND within my price range!! I do believe that this is an I color though, so I''ll see how much of a difference in "yellowishness" it has.

Keep the feedback coming guys/gals...

Sincerely,
Philip
 
Great
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Ask for an ideal-scope too - some stores have them - but usually pretend they do not because it makes a lot of their stock look sad.
 
Thanks for the advice Garry. They did have, and I did look through, a Hearts and Arrow viewer.

To the best of my knowledge, I believe it is the same type of device (though they had to blow off some dust, so I assume that no one asked to look through it before).

Thanks,
Philip

(This is what I was looking through, though I believe it had red film rather than purple)
http://www.whiteflash.com/diamonds_info/t/all_about.aspx?articleid=331&zoneid=28
 
Hmmm, after reading some other threads regarding the IdealScope vs a Hearts & Arrow viewer, it seems that the latter is used primarily to show the symmetry that is inherent in H&A stones. It seems that the Ideal Scope is primarily used for light behavior.

As such, I might just have to purchase the Ideal Scope to enhance my diamond shopping, as I don''t think my local B&M has ever heard of the Ideal Scope. Recommendations for the 6x vs the 10x? Is the Ideal Light necessary?

Thanks again!!
Philip

P.S. I LOVE THIS PLACE
 
Thanks Gypsy!
I haven''t checked out Wink''s site before, so I will surely do that now.

Thank you all for your support, comments, and guidance! Now back to scouring the internet for my stone....

Philip
 
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