Help me find a 1.25-1.5 carat round cut

[User7013]

Hi all,

Recommended to this community by a friend. She knew I completely lost when it comes to shopping. Planning on proposing to my girlfriend in a couple of months. Looking for 1.25-1.5 carat round cut. I have a budget of about 8-10 thousand for the stone. Interested in F color and VVS2 clarity. The girlfriend is interested in the sparkle/carat aspect of the stone (so I am open for modifying color or clarity to maximize the desired effects). Any suggestions on where to buy or comments on whether my budget is realistic or not will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you all ahead of time for any help!

 

[Dancing Fire]

Hi all,

Recommended to this community by a friend. She knew I completely lost when it comes to shopping. Planning on proposing to my girlfriend in a couple of months. Looking for 1.25-1.5 carat round cut. I have a budget of about 8-10 thousand for the stone. Interested in F color and VVS2 clarity. The girlfriend is interested in the sparkle/carat aspect of the stone (so I am open for modifying color or clarity to maximize the desired effects). Any suggestions on where to buy or comments on whether my budget is realistic or not will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you all ahead of time for any help!

A well cut H&A stone will cost you closer to $14-15K

 

[Jwo]

Here's a 1.23 ct F VVS2 excellent cut but at $11390. Would recommend requesting idealscope image.

http://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.23-carat-f-color-vvs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-699574

 

[AdaBeta27]

I think you could look at G and H color, and definitely at VS1, VS2. and possibly even eyeclean SI1, unless you have cultural requirements that dictate otherwise. G should definitely be white enough, and H should face up white enough and also be white enough from the side but could be a little scary when viewed unmounted and face down. VVS clarities are overkill, unless you have cultural reasons.

 

[User7013]

Definitely no cultural reasons. Pricing and budget listed are based on a few local jewelry shop quotes (Southern California). I notice the price difference between the online shops and the local brick and mortar stores. I feel like I will have to do more research as to why there's such a big difference.

Again, thank you for the input!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

If there are no cultural issues, I definitely recommend G color and VS1 or VS2 clarity. VS1 is extremely clean and I can't even locate inclusions with a loupe in my VS1 diamonds. Most VS2's are eyeclean. There is a big jump in price once you go to F and VVS. I'd personally rather balance the color and clarity to get a greater size diamond.

Here is what I can find close to your $10k budget:

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3596837.htm?source=pricescope

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-7094634-1.22-carat-Round-diamond-G-color-VS2-Clarity.aspx?sku=7094634&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com

http://highperformancediamonds.com/shop/diamonds/HPD6922/

 

[Gypsy]

I also recommend expanding your specs to include G and H VS2. Personally I feel that paying for anything above VS2 in a round is a waste of money and strongly prefer eyeclean SI1's (many of them are eyeclean) because paying for something I can't see is an anathema to me.

 

[Gypsy]

Here is the stone I recommend.
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.201-h-vs2-round-diamond-ags-104080749002

Brian Gavin is one of our best vendors here and also has a fantastic selection of settings.

I've worked with them 3 times and each time they've exceeded my expectations.

If you are open to Si1 then ask if this one is eyeclean, because it's a beauty as well:
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.247-h-si1-round-diamond-ags-1040397620020

If you have a little time and can wait for this one:

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.295-h-vs1-round-diamond-bfg-19835

It's a gorgeous option as well, and gets you to 1.3 carats.

 

[User7013]

Hi all,

Recommended to this community by a friend. She knew I completely lost when it comes to shopping. Planning on proposing to my girlfriend in a couple of months. Looking for 1.25-1.5 carat round cut. I have a budget of about 8-10 thousand for the stone. Interested in F color and VVS2 clarity. The girlfriend is interested in the sparkle/carat aspect of the stone (so I am open for modifying color or clarity to maximize the desired effects). Any suggestions on where to buy or comments on whether my budget is realistic or not will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you all ahead of time for any help!

After reviewing the suggestions listed here, I feel my previous specs are likely based on non-GIA lab tested diamonds. With that said, I'd like to revise my plans to:
1.25-1.5 carats
SI1 and above clarity
G and above color.


In regards to cut, is there a noticeable difference in everyday where between an excellent cut vs a very good cut?

 

[unsettled]

Hi all,

Recommended to this community by a friend. She knew I completely lost when it comes to shopping. Planning on proposing to my girlfriend in a couple of months. Looking for 1.25-1.5 carat round cut. I have a budget of about 8-10 thousand for the stone. Interested in F color and VVS2 clarity. The girlfriend is interested in the sparkle/carat aspect of the stone (so I am open for modifying color or clarity to maximize the desired effects). Any suggestions on where to buy or comments on whether my budget is realistic or not will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you all ahead of time for any help!

After reviewing the suggestions listed here, I feel my previous specs are likely based on non-GIA lab tested diamonds. With that said, I'd like to revise my plans to:
1.25-1.5 carats
SI1 and above clarity
G and above color.


In regards to cut, is there a noticeable difference in everyday where between an excellent cut vs a very good cut?

I don't have 1/4 the knowledge of most of the folks here, but I know that cut is KING! An excellent cut diamond with lower color and clarity will always outperform a very good cut diamond with higher color and clarity.

I personally have an excellent cut, H color, SI2 (that is eye clean) and have always been very happy with it. It doesn't show any color to my eyes and I have never been able to even find the inclusions on my GIA report.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Would not recommend very good at all. Even within excellent cut, we wouldn't recommend a percentage of those stones. I already listed some outstanding stones above, but if you want to look further, keep these parameters in mind to narrow down GIA Excellent to the better stones.

Table: 54-58

Depth: 60-62.3

Crown angle: 34-35.0

Pavilion angle: 40.6-40.9

I personally prefer VS clarity. Others want the largest stone possible and go to I-J color and SI clarity. I prefer the G-H range and VS clarity for my own diamonds. As you can see, we will pretty much all agree on getting great cut diamonds because that is the number one factor affecting the beauty of the stone. After that, color, clarity, and size are all personal preference. I generally recommend VS2 when the budget allows (and SI1 when it doesn't), but I usually get VS1 for myself for a ring diamond and never consider it a waste. I consider it a quality factor and I want balance in overall quality.

 

[User7013]

Appreciate the knowledge sharing. You guys are starting to turn my stress into fun!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Appreciate the knowledge sharing. You guys are starting to turn my stress into fun!

Awesome! It really is fun once you know the basics of finding the best stones! Some of us came here for the same reason you did but never left!

One thing I neglected to say is that even though we can narrow the field numerically, it is best to confirm the selection by having a magnified photo of the stone as well as a light return image such as Idealscope or ASET. Many of the PS vendors provide these, fortunately.

 

[User7013]

Hello again all!

I've been doing more research and visited a store in town. They provided a few examples and this one is of interest to me. Per the owner/salesman, this is eye clear. Wanted to see if anyone had input on it? Here's the GIA information:




I'm curious to how you guys think it comes to http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.247-h-si1-round-diamond-ags-1040397620020 as listed above.

 

[solgen]

The proportions look good but who knows how precise the cut is. ASET or IS would be nice but probably not possible. Eye clean is subjective and some of us have higher standards than the convention clean face up at 6-8" away. With some inclusions under the table you may find it's not eye clean when you start tilting the stone back and forth. I've found that to be the case with some SI1 stones but again I'm overly critical.

BG one will be a nice performer. Not eye clean but looks to be mostly prongable.

 

[Gypsy]

It's apples and oranges.

One is a precision cut hearts and arrows tolkowsky style stone.

The other is a GIA Ex 60/60 style stone with really good angles.

Read these:
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/hearts-and-arrows-diamonds
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/tolkowsky-ideal-cut-diamond
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/60-60-proportioned-diamond
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/ags-ideal-cut-diamond

They will explain it better than I can.

If the prices are similar though? The Brian Gavin stone is the winner by far. If the price on the other stone is much lower, then it's a matter of what's important to you.

 

[User7013]

The proportions look good but who knows how precise the cut is. ASET or IS would be nice but probably not possible. Eye clean is subjective and some of us have higher standards than the convention clean face up at 6-8" away. With some inclusions under the table you may find it's not eye clean when you start tilting the stone back and forth. I've found that to be the case with some SI1 stones but again I'm overly critical.

BG one will be a nice performer. Not eye clean but looks to be mostly prongable.

Great perspective and insight in regards to the general distances for eye clean/tilting the stone to look! In regards to the Brian Gavin stone (noted to be eye clean in the link), how did you assess it to be NOT eye clean from the images?

 

[User7013]

It's apples and oranges.

One is a precision cut hearts and arrows tolkowsky style stone.

The other is a GIA Ex 60/60 style stone with really good angles.

Read these:
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/hearts-and-arrows-diamonds
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/tolkowsky-ideal-cut-diamond
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/60-60-proportioned-diamond
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/ags-ideal-cut-diamond

They will explain it better than I can.

If the prices are similar though? The Brian Gavin stone is the winner by far. If the price on the other stone is much lower, then it's a matter of what's important to you.

Thank you for the reading material. This is definitely a few steps beyond the 4Cs! There is a significant difference in price ($6900) for the one I posted. I knew there had to be a catch to it.

I wanted to make sure I had the following thoughts correct:
1) Not all GIA excellent cuts are equal (eg. not all excellent cuts are considered hearts and arrows diamonds)
2) The proportions listed by diamondseeker2006 above help narrow better rated diamonds in the excellent cut rating. A tolkowsky stone has these proportions built into the cut.

 

[AdaBeta27]

... In regards to the Brian Gavin stone (noted to be eye clean in the link), how did you assess it to be NOT eye clean from the images?

My guess is that it would be eyeclean enough for most people. From the standpoint of location, that area of the stone hides inclusions remarkably well. In general, just be sure to ascertain whether the types of inclusions located there are likely to cause structural problems. "Prongable" may be possible for a visible inclusion, but remember that you will have to work around the inclusions, the orientation of the arrows, and those vs. where the prongs are on the setting you've chosen. It's possible that "prongable" might limit your choices of settings too much in some cases. And that if you tilt that diamond and look up at that area, you may see the inclusion plain as day. I've attached a pic of my I1 diamond. (Or it might be SI2, but it's never been sent to a lab.) I can't see those inclusions face-up except upon close inspection. This is an example of limitations that might dictate what setting you use.

One important caveat about "eyeclean", especially when comparison shopping various vendors, is exactly how does that vendor define eyeclean? At what distance? 6" is different from 10", or arm's length. Younger people and nearsighted people who have good near vision might be able to see inclusions that not all people will notice. Of course, seeing an inclusion isn't the same as being bothered by it. I am not bothered by discrete inclusions but there are numerous people on PS who traded in a diamond because they never got over being able to see an inclusion. As I hinted at, you need to ask additional questions about eyeclean from the side, or at a tilt, or face down, or whatever your needs are, because diamonds are graded face-up for clarity.

Read this about parameters and cut: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/preferred-specs-cheat-sheet-for-rounds.88548/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/preferred-specs-cheat-sheet-for-rounds.88548/[/URL] if it hasn't already been linked.

 

[Rhino]

Greetings 7013,

It's apples and oranges.

One is a precision cut hearts and arrows tolkowsky style stone.

The other is a GIA Ex 60/60 style stone with really good angles.

Read these:
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/hearts-and-arrows-diamonds
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/tolkowsky-ideal-cut-diamond
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/60-60-proportioned-diamond
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/ags-ideal-cut-diamond

They will explain it better than I can.

If the prices are similar though? The Brian Gavin stone is the winner by far. If the price on the other stone is much lower, then it's a matter of what's important to you.

Thank you for the reading material. This is definitely a few steps beyond the 4Cs! There is a significant difference in price ($6900) for the one I posted. I knew there had to be a catch to it.

In general there always is.

I wanted to make sure I had the following thoughts correct:
1) Not all GIA excellent cuts are equal (eg. not all excellent cuts are considered hearts and arrows diamonds)

Correct. GIA Excellent cuts do not guarantee top of the line optics. Or perhaps better said GIA Excellent cuts can vary in their optics from top of the line to mediocre. You'll note on this forum that AGS is referred to quite frequently. We do because AGS' cut grading system is quite a bit more stringent than GIA's as it's an 11 grade system as opposed to GIA's 5 grade system. In AGS numerically based system it runs on numbers starting from 0 (the rarest) to 10 (least rare). I've ran and tested GIA Ex's that were as low as AGS 3 in light performance. Hence it can get very confusing for consumers as GIA Ex's can vary in value by over 40% on the same given carat/clarity/color and yes ... even GIA cut grade.

2) The proportions listed by diamondseeker2006 above help narrow better rated diamonds in the excellent cut rating. A tolkowsky stone has these proportions built into the cut.[/quote]

Traditional Tolkowsky proportions yes. Those proportion combinations (coupled with your preference in lower half measurements) will lead you into the right cut for a 57 faceted round brilliant. They are also the rarest combos and generally the hardest to find when searching.

All the best,
Rhino

 

[User7013]

... In regards to the Brian Gavin stone (noted to be eye clean in the link), how did you assess it to be NOT eye clean from the images?

My guess is that it would be eyeclean enough for most people. From the standpoint of location, that area of the stone hides inclusions remarkably well. In general, just be sure to ascertain whether the types of inclusions located there are likely to cause structural problems. "Prongable" may be possible for a visible inclusion, but remember that you will have to work around the inclusions, the orientation of the arrows, and those vs. where the prongs are on the setting you've chosen. It's possible that "prongable" might limit your choices of settings too much in some cases. And that if you tilt that diamond and look up at that area, you may see the inclusion plain as day. I've attached a pic of my I1 diamond. (Or it might be SI2, but it's never been sent to a lab.) I can't see those inclusions face-up except upon close inspection. This is an example of limitations that might dictate what setting you use.

One important caveat about "eyeclean", especially when comparison shopping various vendors, is exactly how does that vendor define eyeclean? At what distance? 6" is different from 10", or arm's length. Younger people and nearsighted people who have good near vision might be able to see inclusions that not all people will notice. Of course, seeing an inclusion isn't the same as being bothered by it. I am not bothered by discrete inclusions but there are numerous people on PS who traded in a diamond because they never got over being able to see an inclusion. As I hinted at, you need to ask additional questions about eyeclean from the side, or at a tilt, or face down, or whatever your needs are, because diamonds are graded face-up for clarity.

Read this about parameters and cut: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/preferred-specs-cheat-sheet-for-rounds.88548/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/preferred-specs-cheat-sheet-for-rounds.88548/[/URL] if it hasn't already been linked.

Thank you! Especially for sharing a picture of your stone

 

[User7013]

Greetings 7013,

It's apples and oranges.

One is a precision cut hearts and arrows tolkowsky style stone.

The other is a GIA Ex 60/60 style stone with really good angles.

Read these:
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/hearts-and-arrows-diamonds
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/tolkowsky-ideal-cut-diamond
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/60-60-proportioned-diamond
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/ags-ideal-cut-diamond

They will explain it better than I can.

If the prices are similar though? The Brian Gavin stone is the winner by far. If the price on the other stone is much lower, then it's a matter of what's important to you.

Thank you for the reading material. This is definitely a few steps beyond the 4Cs! There is a significant difference in price ($6900) for the one I posted. I knew there had to be a catch to it.

In general there always is.

I wanted to make sure I had the following thoughts correct:
1) Not all GIA excellent cuts are equal (eg. not all excellent cuts are considered hearts and arrows diamonds)

Correct. GIA Excellent cuts do not guarantee top of the line optics. Or perhaps better said GIA Excellent cuts can vary in their optics from top of the line to mediocre. You'll note on this forum that AGS is referred to quite frequently. We do because AGS' cut grading system is quite a bit more stringent than GIA's as it's an 11 grade system as opposed to GIA's 5 grade system. In AGS numerically based system it runs on numbers starting from 0 (the rarest) to 10 (least rare). I've ran and tested GIA Ex's that were as low as AGS 3 in light performance. Hence it can get very confusing for consumers as GIA Ex's can vary in value by over 40% on the same given carat/clarity/color and yes ... even GIA cut grade.

2) The proportions listed by diamondseeker2006 above help narrow better rated diamonds in the excellent cut rating. A tolkowsky stone has these proportions built into the cut.

Traditional Tolkowsky proportions yes. Those proportion combinations (coupled with your preference in lower half measurements) will lead you into the right cut for a 57 faceted round brilliant. They are also the rarest combos and generally the hardest to find when searching.

All the best,
Rhino[/quote]


Thanks for the confirmation and additional information!

In general, I am still partially hesitant about making a purchase online (you all have provided great info and I'm definitely still open to it). There's just something about being able to visit in store and talk to someone directly about the stone. I know it's tough to make a call without an ASET study, but would you guys say that the quote of $6900 given to me for the stone I posted is a fair price? Trying to figure out if there is a huge markup or if the dealer is reasonable.

 

[Gypsy]

https://www.pricescope.com/diamond-search-results Find the closest match to your stone through here. Make sure lab is the same that it is a GIA 3x that the angles are as close as you can get them and that color, clarity and weight are the same. Also make sure fluorescence is the same. That way you can see what stones like yours are going for.

.
Another trick is that you can google the GIA number of the stone. Sometimes you can find the same stone in someone's virtual inventory and get a price on it.

 

[User7013]

Happy Saturday all!

Can I get some thoughts on this stone?

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.20-carat-h-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-729922

I hope I'm not offending anyone by pulling up other stones outside of the ones recommended here. I found a source that can get this for me at a better price than posted and thus am curious if this could be a contender for "the one".

I ran this through the HCA calculator and it provided a score of 1.1, so it seems like there's a good chance the light performance will be great. At 20x magnification, there appears to be a visible flaw (needle). It for the most part should be eye clean right?


Thanks again

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Happy Saturday all!

Can I get some thoughts on this stone?

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.20-carat-h-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-729922

I hope I'm not offending anyone by pulling up other stones outside of the ones recommended here. I found a source that can get this for me at a better price than posted and thus am curious if this could be a contender for "the one".

I ran this through the HCA calculator and it provided a score of 1.1, so it seems like there's a good chance the light performance will be great. At 20x magnification, there appears to be a visible flaw (needle). It for the most part should be eye clean right?


Thanks again

This one looks much better in terms of clarity as compared with the one above. It looks pretty nice on the video, as well. It does not quite have the crown angle that I would want since it is under 34, but I think it is close enough for someone who is not all that into cut perfection like some of us are! So if someone can access that stone for less than it is listed, I'd say it would be a nice choice! (And we absolutely are not offended by you posting other stones! We look at JA all the time. I was just looking for 34-35.0 for crown angles so would not have pulled up that particular stone.)

 

[User7013]

Happy Saturday all!

Can I get some thoughts on this stone?

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.20-carat-h-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-729922

I hope I'm not offending anyone by pulling up other stones outside of the ones recommended here. I found a source that can get this for me at a better price than posted and thus am curious if this could be a contender for "the one".

I ran this through the HCA calculator and it provided a score of 1.1, so it seems like there's a good chance the light performance will be great. At 20x magnification, there appears to be a visible flaw (needle). It for the most part should be eye clean right?


Thanks again

This one looks much better in terms of clarity as compared with the one above. It looks pretty nice on the video, as well. It does not quite have the crown angle that I would want since it is under 34, but I think it is close enough for someone who is not all that into cut perfection like some of us are! So if someone can access that stone for less than it is listed, I'd say it would be a nice choice! (And we absolutely are not offended by you posting other stones! We look at JA all the time. I was just looking for 34-35.0 for crown angles so would not have pulled up that particular stone.)

With the crown angle being slightly lower, do you know what adverse effects id likely see? Such as dark spots or light leaks?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

We can't really be sure about light leakage in any stone without an ASET or idealscope image. I wouldn't expect it to have much leakage. A higher crown can mean more fire, but I am sure the difference is very subtle. We kind of stick with the "best" numbers just because buying online means we don't have the luxury of actually comparing a lot of excellent stones with our eyes in various lighting. I'd tell you if I thought the stone was unacceptable. Did the HCA say excellent for the first three items and very good for spread? That's what we aim for.

 

[User7013]

We can't really be sure about light leakage in any stone without an ASET or idealscope image. I wouldn't expect it to have much leakage. A higher crown can mean more fire, but I am sure the difference is very subtle. We kind of stick with the "best" numbers just because buying online means we don't have the luxury of actually comparing a lot of excellent stones with our eyes in various lighting. I'd tell you if I thought the stone was unacceptable. Did the HCA say excellent for the first three items and very good for spread? That's what we aim for.

It did say excellent for the first three and very good for the spread. I'm going to make a move on this one. I'll keep everyone posted. Thanks again for the quick replies!

 

[Gypsy]

For a 60/60 those angles are in the 'safe' range. I would prefer an IS but JA is being chinzy with those.

 

[victorian10]

What was wrong with the stone that you posted the GIA cert for? My GIA plot and additional wording is almost exact for my GIA H color XXX 1.15 stone that is SI2. I cannot tell a diff in color nor clarity from my GIA G XXX VS1 1.18 stone. GIA H is like an F at any shop at the mall... mine has absolutely no tint of yellow. I love it and the twining whisps are a great inclusion for an eye clean diamond. I bought mine online from since 1910 (both of them actually) and they worked with me... I knew what angles I wanted, I'd find a diamond... they'd bring it in or ask the diamond cutter about it... they had no problem telling me it's a beauty or to pass! Good luck!