Help! I need a diamond. Not just any diamond.

[DanShaham]

Hey all! Been lurking for a little while, learning about diamonds, for an engagement ring. Super excited to propose but want to get the perfect ring - who doesn't? I want to get the best ring I can for around $14,000 total, maybe up to $15,000. She's "hinted" she wants a round brilliant in a solitaire setting.

I live and work in NYC and went to Yekutiel at ID Jewelers this week. Really nice and knowledgeable guy - I can see why everyone recommends him. He found me a great diamond - 1.87 ct, GIA Excellent cut, VS1, I with excellent symmetry and polish and no fluorescence. Comes out to 1.4 HCA and AGS 0 for $12,950.

It looks really nice. The inclusions were so small they were hard to find even at 10x - definitely perfectly eye-clean.

But this is the first time I've gone diamond shopping. And when he put it against a poorer-cut 2-ct diamond with an F color, the 1.87ct was better in every way except I noticed the color right away. This was in regular light in a black box, not against white paper. And now I can't get out of my head that I want a better color grade.

I also have a friend who used to work for a wholesaler in the diamond district and can get me in to buy a diamond direct without the mark-up, but I feel I need to come super prepared to know what I want.

Can I expect to get something as good as this diamond, but with a better color grade for no more than $1,000 more? Should I be looking down to SI1 to trade off a little clarity for better color? Expert gemologists and diamond enthusiasts, what should I do?

 

[tyty333]

This is about the closest comparable stone I could find...
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.80-carat-i-color-vs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-2154027

Color...people can usually see a difference when you hold up an I to an F but in reality, and everyday life, this wont be happening.
You have to decide is an "I" white enough for you (stand alone). Usually a well cut I (AGS000) will face up pretty white with
slight tint being seen from the side or when the stone is tilted.

Ask Yuketiel what he can get (like the stone above) in an H or if he thinks he could get you an H for $1k more.

Here is what JA has (over $2k more). You might also consider dropping
down to an eye-clean SI1 to go up in color (and try to stay in same price range but I'm thinking its going to cost more than $1k
because "I" color stones seemsto be a very good value).
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.83-carat-h-color-vs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-1917063

We usually advice against working with "friends". We have seen quite a few incidences when someone thought a "friend" was
doing them a favor and they ended up with a stone that was not cut all that well. I guess you could ask him for AGS000
H&A with certain angles/depth/table ranges. That would probably cover it but...I'd just advice against it in general.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Yeah, please don't go for the wholesaler thing. I have seen some of the worst possible deals come from the friend or family wholesaler situation. I doubt you can do much better than IDJ in terms of price. You can certainly go smaller and up in color. I prefer sticking with no lower than VS2 for clarity, personally. So maybe ask Yekutiel what he can find in H VS2.

 

[DanShaham]

Thanks both for the advice. I did order an Ideal Scope and CZ comparison stone to prepare but I can always throw those in the box of fun gadgets I never use.

One of the stones my friend said they offered was a 2.03ct GIA Excellent cut/symmetry/polish, G, SI2 for $11,500 with the inclusion on the side. That seems like a good deal even if it's not in the best table/depth range, no? Is there no way I can evaluate there to make sure I'm getting something good?

 

[Texas Leaguer]

There once was a time when, with the right introduction and a secret handshake, a consumer might be able to buy directly from a wholesaler and avoid "the markup". Those days ended roughly with the dawn of e-commerce!

Today, if you do your homework you can find the right vendor, the right diamond, and the right value, without having any special connections. Whether you ultimately buy online or offline, as a consumer you are empowered by the internet.

The real challenge is to determine for yourself what attributes and benefits are most important to you as you shop. That's what will enable you to make a great purchase.

Good luck in your quest!

 

[PintoBean]

I don't work with friends because I have a hard time saying "no" to friends and I wouldn't want a transaction to leave us with bitter feelings if it didn't go smoothly.

I would ask Yekutiel if he can find something H color SI-1 to VS2. You can say "no" to Yekutiel more readily, no?

 

[mrs-b]

Thanks both for the advice. I did order an Ideal Scope and CZ comparison stone to prepare but I can always throw those in the box of fun gadgets I never use.

One of the stones my friend said they offered was a 2.03ct GIA Excellent cut/symmetry/polish, G, SI2 for $11,500 with the inclusion on the side. That seems like a good deal even if it's not in the best table/depth range, no? Is there no way I can evaluate there to make sure I'm getting something good?

No. (And hi, Dan!)

It's NEVER a good deal to skimp on cut. You'll see the difference there just as clearly as a drop in color.

I'd stay with the the I colored diamond; I have one, and I love it. I feel that the slightly warmer tone allows me to see the faceting and light play more easily, which I like, without it looking noticeably tinted. 1.87ct is a good, big stone and In NYC, that actually counts for something. But if the color bothers you, I'd definitely be willing to go down to an eye clean SI1 and go up a grade in color. H's are a beautiful color - white, without looking a cold white. I prefer an H color in large stones, as they're still a WHITE diamond, but they're a softer look. And again - you get an easier view of the faceting. Both a VS1 and an SI1 have inclusions; so long as they're both eye clean, where's the difference, y'know? So I'd be either staying with the stone you have, or going down in clarity (normally considered the most negotiable aspect of a diamond) and up a grade in color. For what it's worth, the diamond in my profile photo is an H, and it was beautifully white. It was also an SI1 and completely eye clean. And it was 2.15ct, so not aaaallll that much difference to the one you're considering.

I hope that helps, and good luck with your search! And - one more voice here agreeing that IDJ is the way to go.

ETA And I'd stay away from SI2's - that's where you start to get inclusions that can be seen with the naked eye.

 

[DanShaham]

Thanks everyone for your advice! You have convinced me. Also my friend's friend wants assurances that I'll buy in the 30 minutes I have with him, and explained why things like crown and pavilion angles aren't important, just GIA cut grade.

Hopefully I'll have another nice stone to ask your opinion this week!

 

[foxinsox]

Thanks everyone for your advice! You have convinced me. Also my friend's friend wants assurances that I'll buy in the 30 minutes I have with him, and explained why things like crown and pavilion angles aren't important, just GIA cut grade.

How can cut grade be the important bit if the crown and pavilion angles (which are part of what makes up the cut grade) are not? That's super suspicious.. as is the requirement for promising to buy within 30 mins. I'm glad you're not falling for it.
Diamonds are essentially precisely cut mirrors that take light entering and bounce it around. If your crown and pavilion angles are not complementary, your light doesn't bounce and stops dead, resulting in a dull stone. Don't skimp on getting these right because they are what determines whether you get a big chunk of dull glass or a blazing bright fireball.

 

[DanShaham]

I think his point was more that there's no need to look into table/depth and crown/pavilion angles if it's GIA certified ex/ex/ex. Either way, it also goes back to Pinto's point about it being easier to say no to Yekutiel than when I'm using my friend's connection.

 

[whitewave]

For a project, I bought an I color .37 that I didn't use. When comparing it to my E studs and my G ER, its noticeably yellow. I'm getting it made into a pendant for my daughter and I was thinking this is a good starter stone for her. I Forgot I had it in my purse lol in a small glass container; I saw it when I went to get my keys out walking back to my car. I took it out and laughed and it caught the sun and it was so beautiful. I actually said "wow". Its a slightly different look from an E or F, but wow, it is completely beautiful on its own.

It wasn't until I came to Pricescope that I understood that I/J/K stones aren't "less than" D/E/F. They're just different. Which one you choose depends on what you are in the mood to enjoy: morning sunshine or the muted tones of a warm sunset.

I'd at least put the I in contention and ask Yekutiel to Find you a G or H vs2, and compare them in person in different light. Who knows, the I might win.

 

[whitewave]

I think his point was more that there's no need to look into table/depth and crown/pavilion angles if it's GIA certified ex/ex/ex. Either way, it also goes back to Pinto's point about it being easier to say no to Yekutiel than when I'm using my friend's connection.

This guy either knows nothing about diamonds or is pretending like he doesn't, I assume for some reason that will benefit him, not you. IT makes me mad.

It takes way more than 30 mins to find a diamond for you.

 

[lovedogs]

I think his point was more that there's no need to look into table/depth and crown/pavilion angles if it's GIA certified ex/ex/ex. Either way, it also goes back to Pinto's point about it being easier to say no to Yekutiel than when I'm using my friend's connection.

This guy either knows nothing about diamonds or is pretending like he doesn't, I assume for some reason that will benefit him, not you. IT makes me mad.

It takes way more than 30 mins to find a diamond for you.

Exactly. That's just nonsense. GIA ex/ex/ex doesn't mean that other info isn't important. There are some horrible GIA ex/ex/ex stones, so he's flat out wrong (and likely just pretending not to know it). Very glad you will stick with IDJ!

 

[DanShaham]

Thank you all for the advice. Just to be clear, the friend is a very good guy I've known since we served together more than 10 years ago. He was in the diamond industry for about a year (I would be buying from his friend) and he's just trying to steer me in what he thinks is the right direction. I just happen to be quality-obsessed.

And thank you for the personal stories, too. It really helps to put a qualitative feel on all of these numbers and letters.

 

[DanShaham]

Thanks again everyone. It looks like I have found my diamond - 1.8ct H SI1 Ex/Ex/Ex, faint fluorescence, with an HCA of 2.0. Practically same price as the I at $13000. Eye-clean but as an SI1 of course more inclusions than the VS1 I looked at last week, and a little smaller. But it seems whiter to me and shone well, though I couldn't compare to the I from last week. Any thoughts? And any thoughts on putting in a rose gold ring? She's said she prefers that, though she's also fine with a platinum or white gold.

 

[PintoBean]

I would recommend a combo of platinum or white gold head and rose good shank.

 

[DanShaham]

Hi all! The last month has been a bit of a swirl, so sorry for not updating sooner. I got the 1.8ct stone Yekutiel recommended in the solitaire setting with rose gold band and white gold prongs. She said yes! She loves the ring and a little over a month later still can't stop talking about it. I really am so happy that I got it from Yekutiel - and feel so much more comfortable that I can go back to him if there are any issues or of course for future diamond purchases. Thank you Yekutiel!

 

[ac117]

Hi all! The last month has been a bit of a swirl, so sorry for not updating sooner. I got the 1.8ct stone Yekutiel recommended in the solitaire setting with rose gold band and white gold prongs. She said yes! She loves the ring and a little over a month later still can't stop talking about it. I really am so happy that I got it from Yekutiel - and feel so much more comfortable that I can go back to him if there are any issues or of course for future diamond purchases. Thank you Yekutiel!

Congratulations!! We would love to see some pictures!!

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Congrats! All the best to you and your bride to be.

 

[Natylad]

Congratulations on your engagement
Could you please post some handshots of the beautiful ring that you got? We appreciate such pictures a lot around here!!!

 

[foxinsox]

Congratulations! Seconding the request for handshots! We love looking at diamonds

 

[bmfang]

Hi all! The last month has been a bit of a swirl, so sorry for not updating sooner. I got the 1.8ct stone Yekutiel recommended in the solitaire setting with rose gold band and white gold prongs. She said yes! She loves the ring and a little over a month later still can't stop talking about it. I really am so happy that I got it from Yekutiel - and feel so much more comfortable that I can go back to him if there are any issues or of course for future diamond purchases. Thank you Yekutiel!

Congrats on your engagement!

 

[ringo865]

Congrats on your engagement and the learning you ventured thru to get the ring she'll love for years. I will echo the others and beg for photos.