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HELP: I have this diamond on hold - - should I buy???

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David0722

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 28, 2006
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Hey guys and gals, I'm very close to pulling the trigger on the following stone that I currently have on hold with BlueNile.com


I've read that undersized stones are a great value, but hard to find. I found the following that looks like a terrific value and I'd appreciate any input. I did the Holloway Cut Adviser, and it showed a pretty lousy 4.8 - Good - Only if price is your main criterion. However, everyone I've spoken to at BlueNile and some local jewelers say the HCA is highly inaccurate. Two different BlueNile operators said they've entered specs from some of their best "Signature Ideal" diamonds and it's been very wrong.
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I'm not too sure how much I trust them, so I'd love the input from this forum.
This is the 2nd time I've requested help from you guys and I really appreciate all your help!!!!
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Price = $11,255 (tax free)
Scan of GIA Certificate: http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/7876/gia15028190zoom6fl.jpg
Round Brilliant 1.48c
Color: F
Clarity: SI1 (BlueNile assured me this diamond was inspected by their gemologists and documented as eye clean)
Cut Grade: Excellent
Polish: Excellent
Symetry: Excellent
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 7.28 - 7.32 x 4.51mm (Seems small for a 1.48c)
Depth: 61.8%
Table: 58%
Crown Angle: 34.5%
Pavilion Angle: 41.4%

Do you think this a good stone for the $$$? I'm leaning towards buying from BlueNile because of their reputation and the fact that they have the perfect setting that my GF is looking for: http://www.bluenile.com/assets/product_images/rings/DM15501600_zoom.jpg
 
David, you know, over time we get so obsessed with numbers around here that we dismiss perfectly good diamonds. Since the GIA numbers are rounded, it is my understanding that you can''t get a totally accurate reading on the HCA. That is why some vendors like GOG run Helium scans to get exact measurements.

All I can tell you is that I did consider a diamond that was less than ideal cut (with 58 table and 62 depth), and IF I had found it and never learned what I have on PS, then I probably would have been thrilled with that diamond. But now that I know about optimal optical symmetry and hearts and arrows, I really want one of those (for an anniversary ring)! So if your girlfriend does not know about PS and is unlikely to ever obsess over diamond measurements, she''d probably be really happy with a GIA excellent stone. Most here will tell you that there are better stones out there. But you''ll have to decide whether you want a stone in the top 15% maybe or the top 3%. You are right that stones just under 1.5 are hard to find because that is my size range as well. Good luck and please let us know if you do get it. We need to see stones that have less than perfect numbers to remind ourselves that beauty can be found in many diamonds.
 
Diamonds take a real hit in HCA score when the pav angle is >41.

I think it could still be quite a lovely diamond. I bet once you see it with your own eyes... then you''ll know if it''s *the one* for you.
 
You''re right, this can be frustrating! I guess I''ve conditioned myself to think that any stone with excellent cut and excellent symmetry will have good hearts & arrows. If not, what''s a GIA cert good for! My goal is to find a stone that can throw a strong sparkle from 10 feet away looks very white and is under $11,750. Too ambitious?
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What is it about this stone specifically that turns you off?
 

Nope, I just wouldn't ever buy a 41.4 PA. OF COURSE they're going to say the stone is great!



The Signature Ideal stones are all AGS-0, and HCA and the AGS system pretty much support each other. Yes, a few stones do not score under 2, but I've come across less than 5 such stones.

ETA: To clarify, I wouldn't ever buy a 41.4 without something like an Ideal Scope picture.
 
Julie.

I have to disagree with your analysis of the AGS system supporting the HCA, or vice versa.

Perhaps this was true with the former AGS system, but having now used the PGS software, and seeing the results from it on various combinations, I don''t think this is true any longer.

The HCA is evaluating a stone based on it being symmetrical. If the stone isn''t, then the result is not accurate. Since the PGS is considering the actual non contact system scan, it''s result has to be very different, unless the stone has very perfect symmetry and consdideration of the minor facets angle, indexing/yaw.

I am a bit concerned that many consumers don''t realize that the resultant AGS cut grade based from the analysis of the Sarin, isn''t totally up to date.

I believe the ONLY ways that proper results are acheived to quote the AGS cut grade is by getting a stone with an AGS new light performance report, or by having it run through the PGS software system.



Rockdoc
 
Seriously....as Julie said what do you expect them to say.
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I have run some of their signature ideal stones through the HCA myself and the scores are POO sometimes. But typically the POO stones have POO numbers so it's not surprising the HCA dings them. That is why I use the HCA AND my own set of ranges for angles and depth and table etc AND images like IdealScope, real stone images, magnified inclusion images, etc (which BN does not have by the way, which is probably why I would never buy from them), Sarin etc to determine if the stone will be nice to my eyes in person.

You don't have to SETTLE for mediocre when you are shopping for a diamond online. Not that BN itself is mediocre but what they sell DOES run the gamut. There have been fab stones we have seen on here, and then pure crap and then a bunch in between. You really have to filter through it all, to find a stellar stone. It has been done, definitely. But for me, if you are going to be looking around online, end up with something spectacular!! If you can't see the diamond in person, use a vendor who will give you all the tools you need to make the right decision.

But if you are sold on BN..that is NOT the stone to buy. YAK sorry 41.4 pav angle??? I would never buy that for a ring stone. Not with all the other creme de la creme stuff from other vendors on here. And CERTAINLY not for $11k! I can appreciate you like their setting but don't they just have stock settings that other jewelers can get too? It's not like they make their own settings. Did you look around elsewhere?
 
I'm not sure what your criteria are other than cost but this stone is $12150 PS price, about $500 more than your budget but it's 1.50c G SI1 and it's an ACA H&A branded stone:
http://www.whiteflash.com/diamonds/diamond_Details.aspx?itemcode=AGS-6339403http://www.pricescope.com/origin.asp?sh=88&id=1240&prc=12150

and there is this one, 1.46 G SI1 GOG stone with a pav angle of 41 which isn't my fave but it's way better than what you selected at BN and it's got a great IS image and it's $11291 or under $11k with bank wire price:
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/2089/

OH ETA this one:
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamond.asp?cid=131&item=860637
1.60 F SI2 stone with interesting specs, 41 pav but a shallower crown could be really nice, if it's eye clean and you could get an idealscope. For under $10k!
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The 10x mag is a little messy but I'd ask about it anyway.
 
Mara -- you absolutely crack me up about POO numbers and POO ratings : )

Is there any way you''d be willing to post your own range of numbers/angles etc... for a round brilliant?

I know the HCA calculator is great - but if you''re in a store without that trusty tool, it''d be nice to have a good range to work from.

If you''d rather not share your #''s... I''d understand (I come from a family of bakers... and to them recipes are treated as classified information)... and you''re a diamond-maven... so maybe this is your little secret : )

Aussiegirl : p
 
David, very seriously, Julie gave you a link to the perfect stone for what you''re seeking:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/2089/

I can guarantee you that GOG can get you a setting just like that one, too. They carry several brands which would encompass thousands of settings. There is no contest between the BN diamond and the GOG diamond. You are paying too much for an inferior stone when there is one just sitting at GOG that would be perfect. You''d never be able to tell the difference between F and G.
 
aussie, i have shared my thoughts on my numbers in a few other threads, one recently where i got pretty detailed but i can''t remember the topic name unforutunately to find it, so here is kind of the jist from what i can recall...

table: 55-56 (but i would do 54 or 57 MAYBE if the other numbers corresponded but i''d prefer not to)
depth: 60.4ish-61.2ish (these are really strict, you can go up to 62 and still have a lovely diamond but then you lose some diameter in the depth which bugs me)
crown angle: 34.4ish-34.9 (maybe more shallow than 34.4 but depends on other specs)
pav angle: 40.5-40.8 (40.9 if necessary and other specs are cherry)
girdle: thin-med is my fave because i don''t want weight lost in the girdle nor do i like to see it
polish/symm: EX/EX or ID/ID
culet: none or vs is fine too
fluor: i''d love slight-strong fluor depending on the stone and the other qualitities...i have slight fluor in my stone now and who knows if it makes a real difference but i like the thought. it''s great for lower colored stones.

these specs are pretty strict, but having had an out of the range stone before, for a ring stone, something that you stare at day in and day out, i have to have a mind clean stone and for me that is specs more than color and clarity. i haven''t been disappointed in the last 3 stones which were all in the range of those specs...so i figure that my eye likes what i call the ''typical ideal''. plus many of the stellar internet vendors we work with on here have stones in those ranges, multiples...so lots of pickins!!
 
Thanks Mara,

I had tried searching for similar posts of yours, but you have SO many posts... digging through them is a bit overwhelming and time-consuming.

You are a doll for posting them again!

Aussiegirl : p
 
haha i know, i thought about trying to find that one recent thread (i forget what it was titled but it was something like 'what to know when buying a stone' and was pretty detailed)....but then i said NAH...hahaa. i think miss lorelei may have been the one to post it?
 
Date: 6/30/2006 12:30:42 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
David, very seriously, Julie gave you a link to the perfect stone for what you're seeking:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/2089/

I can guarantee you that GOG can get you a setting just like that one, too. They carry several brands which would encompass thousands of settings. There is no contest between the BN diamond and the GOG diamond. You are paying too much for an inferior stone when there is one just sitting at GOG that would be perfect. You'd never be able to tell the difference between F and G.
Click to expand...
Well, this may be fate!
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As it turns out, GOG is only 25 minutes from my house! I'm sure they'll ship it to a friend out of state for me to save the sales tax. I'll pop into the store in a few hours once I get out of work. I do love all the great H&A images, plus their return/upgrade policy seems better than BN.

Julie & diamondseeker2006, thank you SOOOO much!
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shipping something out of state to avoid Sales tax is illegal. be careful!
 
David, I will tell you from personal experience that you will be in excellent hands with GOG. They are honest and have integrity and are obsessive about finding the very best stones for your parameters, even if the one Julie listed is not "the one". How very lucky for you to be able to visit their store! Tell Jonathan that Diamondseeker says hello! (It would even be worth paying the sales tax to have them find your stone so that you can see it. Keep an open mind on that!)

Please let us know what happens!!!

One more setting (picture it with a round center stone, though!):

http://www.goodoldgold.com/setting/V-107/

more:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/setting/I-11PLE683/

http://www.goodoldgold.com/setting/I-11PLE686/
 
Date: 6/30/2006 1:37:04 PM
Author: pinkflamingo
shipping something out of state to avoid Sales tax is illegal. be careful!
Click to expand...
Not to mention downright deceiptful
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