HELP - GIA certiifcate attached
- Thread starter ace88
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Cleo
Brilliant_Rock
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2008
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- 932
Hello 
I downloaded the certificate which you attached and post the stats here for others:
Table: 60%
Total depth: 60.6%
Crown: 34.5 degrees
Pavilion: 41.2 degrees
8.47 - 8.49 x 5.14mm
2.25ct I SI1 GIA cert Ex/Ex/Ex (cert number 15183341)
I ran these numbers through the Holloway Cut Advisor (HCA) and the diamond scores 3.9 for total visual performance. (Most PSers aim for a score of under 2 and Ex/Ex/Ex Vg). This stone scores VG/G/G/Vg for light return/fire/scintillation and spread respectively.
You say that you have seen this diamond - have you checked it out in a variety of different lighting conditions (bright sunlight, fluorescent light, shade, very low light) to see how it performs?
My concern would be that this diamond might not have as good all-round light performance as you would like. However, if you have checked it out in all conditions and are happy with it, then that''s fine. I would, however, suggest comparing it with something like an AGS0 Ideal cut diamond, side by side, if at all possible - just so you can see any differences in light performance for yourself and see which you prefer.
With regard to the clarity - you really can''t judge this by the grading report and as you have seen the diamond yourself only you can really judge if the diamond is eyeclean to your standards.
I assume you have found this diamond at a bricks & mortar (B&M) jeweller? Have you shopped around online for diamonds as well, as it may well be you could find an even better cut diamond than this for about the same price.
I realise these are a little smaller, but they are superbly cut diamonds:
2.065cts I SI2 http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-179713.htm
2.054cts I SI1 http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-67465.htm
2.098cts I VS2 http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/2645/
All of these are AGS0 Ideal cut, H&A diamonds.
x x x
I downloaded the certificate which you attached and post the stats here for others:
Table: 60%
Total depth: 60.6%
Crown: 34.5 degrees
Pavilion: 41.2 degrees
8.47 - 8.49 x 5.14mm
2.25ct I SI1 GIA cert Ex/Ex/Ex (cert number 15183341)
I ran these numbers through the Holloway Cut Advisor (HCA) and the diamond scores 3.9 for total visual performance. (Most PSers aim for a score of under 2 and Ex/Ex/Ex Vg). This stone scores VG/G/G/Vg for light return/fire/scintillation and spread respectively.
You say that you have seen this diamond - have you checked it out in a variety of different lighting conditions (bright sunlight, fluorescent light, shade, very low light) to see how it performs?
My concern would be that this diamond might not have as good all-round light performance as you would like. However, if you have checked it out in all conditions and are happy with it, then that''s fine. I would, however, suggest comparing it with something like an AGS0 Ideal cut diamond, side by side, if at all possible - just so you can see any differences in light performance for yourself and see which you prefer.
With regard to the clarity - you really can''t judge this by the grading report and as you have seen the diamond yourself only you can really judge if the diamond is eyeclean to your standards.
I assume you have found this diamond at a bricks & mortar (B&M) jeweller? Have you shopped around online for diamonds as well, as it may well be you could find an even better cut diamond than this for about the same price.
I realise these are a little smaller, but they are superbly cut diamonds:
2.065cts I SI2 http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-179713.htm
2.054cts I SI1 http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-67465.htm
2.098cts I VS2 http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/2645/
All of these are AGS0 Ideal cut, H&A diamonds.
x x x
Thanks so much for the quick response. I did see the diamond in person but i am the first to admit that I dont have much experience at viewing diamonds. We looked at it under the microscope and outside, it certainly sparkled but I am just concerned by all the imperfections on that GIA form. although I am not sure that you really find a diamond with none. also have concern over the fact that you say the HCA rater was not very good. to be honest i am at a loss for what to do next. This is such a difficult process. I do know that I am unlikey to purchase online, I am just not ready for that. I guess go back and look to see some additional diamonds? i assume all the dots of imperfections play into the HCA rater? Sorry for the beginner questions but this all really confuses me.
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2005
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- 42,064
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2005
- Messages
- 42,064
Sorry, I should have explained a bit better. The range for GIA Excellent cut grade can be broad, so it can take some sifting through to find the best ones it seems.
Here are some suggested proportions you can use to help find a nicely cut diamond.
depth 60 - 62.6 ( my preferred maximum depth)
table - 54 - 57%
crown angle - 34 - 35 degrees
pavilion angle - 40.6- 41 degrees
for crown and pavilion angles which are shallower ( 34/ 40.6) and steeper ( 35/ 41) these need further evaluation to make sure these angles work well for that particular diamond. Idealscope images are helpful there, plus your own eyes.
See here for Idealscope info. https://www.pricescope.com/idealscope_indx.asp
Thanks again for the quick response. According to your parameters I fall into them with the exception of depth. I think at this point I will have to go back and just ask to see a couple more diamonds. I am pretty set on the size of 2.25 but I guess I will ask for a couple more diamonds to view, maybe go up to VS territory and see if that works. whats tough is to me the diamond was nice and sparkly but its so hard to not feel like you are getting ripped off when you dont have a lot of experience with this!
Cleo
Brilliant_Rock
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2008
- Messages
- 932
Hello
I am sorry that this diamond isn''t perhaps as good as you had hoped.
There are many, many people on PS who have all bought their diamonds online and who are very educated about what to look for in choosing an amazing diamond Everyone understands how difficult and daunting it is when you are new to looking at diamonds - and how frightening it is to buy a diamond online, without even seeing it.
The great news is that all of these people are falling over themselves to help you buy the best diamond you possibly can for your money!
OK, so first a bit of explanation about the HCA which you can find here: https://www.pricescope.com/cutadviser.asp
It''s a tool which lets you weed out diamonds which aren''t as well cut. You can''t use it to *choose* the best diamond - only to reject less well cut stones.
As you will see the HCA only considers the following: Table size, total depth, crown angle and pavilion angle.
The clarity, size and colour of the stone are not considered by the HCA, which is also only any use for round diamonds.
Most PSers will tell you that it is the cut if the stone which has the greatest effect on the diamond''s beauty. Therefore many PSers are happy to go lower in colour and clarity, as long as they are buying the best possible cut.
Even within GIA Excellent cut stones, some are better than others as you have found. As Lorelei has said the requirements for an AGS0 Ideal cut grading are more strict that the GIA Excellent - although it is definitely worth looking at both GIA Ex and AGS0 and using the HCA to weed out any that aren''t so good.
The diamond you were looking at had a steep pavilion angle as you noticed, and also rather a large table as well.
Looking at VS diamonds will increase the price of the stones you are looking at, and although this will improve the clarity of the diamonds (although VS and SI1 stones can look identical to the naked eye if they are both eye clean) it will not improve either the cut of the diamond, or the HCA score.
There are some excellent vendors online, who are used to meeting the exceptionally discerning requirements of PS customers. Their customer service is second to none, and diamonds are usually sent out with a period of time built in to allow you to get an independent appraisal of the diamond, allowing you to return the stone for a refund if you are not happy with it... so very little (if any!) risk on your part!
I would suggest looking at www.whiteflash.com www.goodoldgold.com and www.jamesallen.com as three popular choices for starters.
Online diamond vendors can usually offer you considerable savings compared to B&M jewellers and I really would seriousl consider at least just comparing the prices, if nothing else!
I hope this helps a little - please feel free to ask any questions if there''s anything you don''t understand.
x x x
I am sorry that this diamond isn''t perhaps as good as you had hoped.
There are many, many people on PS who have all bought their diamonds online and who are very educated about what to look for in choosing an amazing diamond Everyone understands how difficult and daunting it is when you are new to looking at diamonds - and how frightening it is to buy a diamond online, without even seeing it.
The great news is that all of these people are falling over themselves to help you buy the best diamond you possibly can for your money!
OK, so first a bit of explanation about the HCA which you can find here: https://www.pricescope.com/cutadviser.asp
It''s a tool which lets you weed out diamonds which aren''t as well cut. You can''t use it to *choose* the best diamond - only to reject less well cut stones.
As you will see the HCA only considers the following: Table size, total depth, crown angle and pavilion angle.
The clarity, size and colour of the stone are not considered by the HCA, which is also only any use for round diamonds.
Most PSers will tell you that it is the cut if the stone which has the greatest effect on the diamond''s beauty. Therefore many PSers are happy to go lower in colour and clarity, as long as they are buying the best possible cut.
Even within GIA Excellent cut stones, some are better than others as you have found. As Lorelei has said the requirements for an AGS0 Ideal cut grading are more strict that the GIA Excellent - although it is definitely worth looking at both GIA Ex and AGS0 and using the HCA to weed out any that aren''t so good.
The diamond you were looking at had a steep pavilion angle as you noticed, and also rather a large table as well.
Looking at VS diamonds will increase the price of the stones you are looking at, and although this will improve the clarity of the diamonds (although VS and SI1 stones can look identical to the naked eye if they are both eye clean) it will not improve either the cut of the diamond, or the HCA score.
There are some excellent vendors online, who are used to meeting the exceptionally discerning requirements of PS customers. Their customer service is second to none, and diamonds are usually sent out with a period of time built in to allow you to get an independent appraisal of the diamond, allowing you to return the stone for a refund if you are not happy with it... so very little (if any!) risk on your part!
I would suggest looking at www.whiteflash.com www.goodoldgold.com and www.jamesallen.com as three popular choices for starters.
Online diamond vendors can usually offer you considerable savings compared to B&M jewellers and I really would seriousl consider at least just comparing the prices, if nothing else!
I hope this helps a little - please feel free to ask any questions if there''s anything you don''t understand.
x x x
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2005
- Messages
- 42,064
Yes, and the crucial pavilion angle, which is considered to be steep at 41.2. So try to keep this angle between 40.6 and 41 degrees if you can. Also if you can find a well cut SI1 clarity, no need to go up to VS, it is cut which has the greatest influence on a diamond's beauty, not the clarity if eyeclean.
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