Help! Get my Masters or consulting in London or Stockholm?

[natascha]

Since I got many very helpful responses before here I am begging for help again.

I am a business student ( doing a law degree at the same time) and will be finishing my bachelor this June. I know I want to go into management consulting at least for my first 2-5 years.

I was feeling really insecure during winter and basically just shoved my head under the pillow and ignored that I needed to make some grown up decisions. I anyways sent of an application to one London firm and I received an offer.

Now I need to decide, and fast, what I should do:

Options:
Do my Masters I could do my masters right away. I have an assured place and would also probably get into the CEMS MIM too. My fiance is Swedish and prefers for us to stay here in Sweden, at least long term, and this is only the second year that people are coming out with bachelors here. Before we had civilekonom which was a 4 year program so basically nobody knows what is going to happen long term, will people be doing just a bachelor or will the majority also have a masters. But, I dislike studying, have never liked it, I just knew that to get where I wanted I was going to have to do it and excel. Also about 40 percent of my classmates seem to be not doing the masters right away.

Move to London I have an offer at a strategy firm, it is a pretty good one but not Big 3. I have to decide till Friday 21. I know I would like the work, the offer is pretty good and so are the exit opportunities and I like London. The issues, my fiance would have to give up his job and we are worried that he might not find a great one in London. Money is not the issue, I will be the main breadwinner and it is my career that will come first but what if he does not feel happy?

Get a job in StockholmAs I said before, I am stupid. I buried my head in the sand and did not send out applications before and pretty much everyone already have their offers. I have now sent to Big 3 but I don't think I am going to get even an interview. I don't know if I want to apply to other firms since I believe that in 2 years my CV will be better and I should have a chance. But am I kidding myself? And are 2 years really worth it just to do tex Bain instead of AT Kearney or Accenture?

What on earth should I do? I just feel so confused.

 

[Ickeymouse]

Re: Help! Get my Masters or consulting in London or Stockhol

If money (meaning, you need to work to survive) isn't an issue, then I say, get your Master's now while you can. You can always get a job later.

 

[natascha]

Re: Help! Get my Masters or consulting in London or Stockhol

If money (meaning, you need to work to survive) isn't an issue, then I say, get your Master's now while you can. You can always get a job later.

We are not independently wealthy, very far from it in fact. The thing is I have a 20.0/20.0 GPA from high school and a 1.8 in SweSAT, so I got into a great private business school. I pay no tuition since the school was founded more than a 100 years ago by the business community and those donations and later ones are what pays for everyones education.

What I meant was that once I start working, I am going to be the main earner and my SO would not actually have to work. So we are not dependent on his getting a job if we move to London.

Thank you for your response. Why do you think I should get the Masters?

 

[Phoenix]

Re: Help! Get my Masters or consulting in London or Stockhol

Well, I think it'd depend to a large extend on the state of the economy in Sweden and where you think it's going to go in the next 2-3 years. If you think you'd have no problem getting a job later on when you finish your Master degree, then I'd do the Master right now.

I'd personally take that job offer right now for a few reasons: 1) I *think* (but am not sure) that the economy in the Europe is not doing too well right now and is not likely to improve significantly any time soon; 2) you could always go back to do your Master in a few years' time (in fact, it's better imho to have some work experience behind you before you embark on a Master); and 3) you wouldn't have to stay with the same employer; in fact, once you've finished yr Master, it should put you on a better footing/ it should help you to move to another firm like Bain.

 

[mrscushion]

Re: Help! Get my Masters or consulting in London or Stockhol

I have a couple of questions:

- How good is your FI's career right now? As in, major bucks, exactly what he wants to do long-term, great growth prospects, etc.? Or is he also on a track that would send him back to graduate school in a couple of years?
- Would he be okay with you being the primary breadwinner (in the short term? In the long term?)
- Are you sure you guys can live in London on one entry-level consulting income? Have you done the rough living expenses calculation?

In general, my view (I've told you this before) is that you should go work now for a few years, then do a master's later. Here's why:

- You'll get more out of it because you will have gained work experiences to which you can apply your school lessons
- You'll know for sure on which professional track you want to embark, making you more focused
- You'll be more marketable after your master's, having worked before, and will consequently make more $
- If you go into consulting now, the company might send you to get your MBA at an international top-tier school tuition-free

Lastly, I also have no doubt you'll get a good job in Sweden right now. It may not be top-tier strategy consulting if the recruiting cycle has passed, but it'll be a good one with a smaller consulting firm or in industry.

I'm not sure what the economy is like in Sweden, but my guess is it's recovered fairly well, like it has in the German speaking area where we are seeing a bit of a boom right now. Use booms to work, then go back to school when things slow down. If you're lucky, you can time it extremely well.

 

[Pandora II]

Re: Help! Get my Masters or consulting in London or Stockhol

I'm in London so can help out if you need any ideas re. what possibilities there might be for your FI and also what expenses are like here etc

 

[natascha]

Re: Help! Get my Masters or consulting in London or Stockhol

Well, I think it'd depend to a large extend on the state of the economy in Sweden and where you think it's going to go in the next 2-3 years. If you think you'd have no problem getting a job later on when you finish your Master degree, then I'd do the Master right now.

I'd personally take that job offer right now for a few reasons: 1) I *think* (but am not sure) that the economy in the Europe is not doing too well right now and is not likely to improve significantly any time soon; 2) you could always go back to do your Master in a few years' time (in fact, it's better imho to have some work experience behind you before you embark on a Master); and 3) you wouldn't have to stay with the same employer; in fact, once you've finished yr Master, it should put you on a better footing/ it should help you to move to another firm like Bain.

The Swedish economy is comparatively doing really well and practically all indicators are showing that it will continue. I will have no problem getting a job, the question is what job will I get. I guess I have gotten a bit stuck on the idea of only working for the top firms, which I probably need to let go off.

The thing with working a couple of years and later doing the Master is that I dislike studying. I have never liked it so I am unsure that I would actually come back. Also I would need to come back in 2 years to keep an assured spot in the program otherwise I would need to apply again and it is only getting more and more competitive.

Phoenix I really appreciate your thoughts. It is very helpful to read what someone else thinks especially, someone who is already in the workforce ( I think you were in auditing?) and has probably gone through the same questions. I sometimes feel a bit at a loss, I am the first in my family to be facing this, so they don't really have anything that they can relate to.

I have a couple of questions:

- How good is your FI's career right now? As in, major bucks, exactly what he wants to do long-term, great growth prospects, etc.? Or is he also on a track that would send him back to graduate school in a couple of years?
- Would he be okay with you being the primary breadwinner (in the short term? In the long term?)
- Are you sure you guys can live in London on one entry-level consulting income? Have you done the rough living expenses calculation?

In general, my view (I've told you this before) is that you should go work now for a few years, then do a master's later. Here's why:

- You'll get more out of it because you will have gained work experiences to which you can apply your school lessons
- You'll know for sure on which professional track you want to embark, making you more focused
- You'll be more marketable after your master's, having worked before, and will consequently make more $
- If you go into consulting now, the company might send you to get your MBA at an international top-tier school tuition-free

Lastly, I also have no doubt you'll get a good job in Sweden right now. It may not be top-tier strategy consulting if the recruiting cycle has passed, but it'll be a good one with a smaller consulting firm or in industry.

I'm not sure what the economy is like in Sweden, but my guess is it's recovered fairly well, like it has in the German speaking area where we are seeing a bit of a boom right now. Use booms to work, then go back to school when things slow down. If you're lucky, you can time it extremely well.

I was hoping that you would respond .
FI's does not have a university degree and he is working as a salesclerk. He enjoys his job and he likes the people he works with but he is never going to earn major bucks, have great growth prospects etc. He wants to become a police officer but it is really hard to get into the police academy since there are so many applying.

He is fine with me becoming the major breadwinner. We realized pretty early that that is how it was going to be, in the beginning I will earn double what he does and the difference is just going to become greater as time goes. We have also discussed that in the long term if we chose to have children he will probably be taking of a year in the beginning and will after that be working part time.

We have been looking into living expenses and they should be perfectly doable on just my wage. The only thing that will probably cost more compared to now is rent, Stockholm is a very expensive city as well.

Regarding the Master, the one I would do now is a Master of Science in Business and Economics with a specialization in Accounting and Financial Management. I would hopefully finish my Bachelor in Law and do a CEMS Master in International Management as well. Yikes that sounds a lot, I would end up with 4 degrees.

The thing is after speaking to Bain et al here in Sweden, they are basically saying that I would enter on the same level independently of just a bachelor vs. a Master. That makes me want to start working now and not come back and do a normal Master but maybe do a MBA down the road.

At the same time I just heard from BCG that it is a no. Pretty expected since I have only heard of them giving offers in November. I just wonder if I would get in after the Master and if it is worth it. Are big 3 so much better than Lhvfuayd Ejhvjk Khtfvj (grab the first letter ) for my career that 2 more years is worth it?

 

[natascha]

Re: Help! Get my Masters or consulting in London or Stockhol

I'm in London so can help out if you need any ideas re. what possibilities there might be for your FI and also what expenses are like here etc

I will take that offer . My FI's has mainly been working in warehouses up to manager level at a small company ( so he did not have personnel responsibilities), in sales ( electronics and such) and a bit of technical support. He has also done military service as transport team leader.

Do you have any insight into how the market is looking in London? I guess it is a bit naive of us to believe that there will not be any bigger difficulties for him to get a job. The rumor over here is that the English like Swedes .

Regarding expenses, since I am still a student and Stockholm is darn expensive we are pretty frugal tex stocking up on meat and such when they are on offer, doing a lot of shopping at Lidl, etc. From what we have seen groceries are actually cheaper in London than Sweden and so is going out, etc. Would £400 for groceries a month be ok for two people?

I would be working in Victoria, any tips regarding which areas we should search for an apartment? We do want a 1 bedroom apartment. If staying within a 30 min commute to Victoria would around £1000 be doable?

We were figuring around £500 for transportation costs, home insurance and the like.

Anything we should keep in mind for living in London?

I am very grateful for any help that you can give.

 

[natascha]

Re: Help! Get my Masters or consulting in London or Stockhol

Yikes I completely forgot about council tax and utilities!

 

[Pandora II]

Re: Help! Get my Masters or consulting in London or Stockhol

I'm in London so can help out if you need any ideas re. what possibilities there might be for your FI and also what expenses are like here etc

I will take that offer . My FI's has mainly been working in warehouses up to manager level at a small company ( so he did not have personnel responsibilities), in sales ( electronics and such) and a bit of technical support. He has also done military service as transport team leader.

Do you have any insight into how the market is looking in London? I guess it is a bit naive of us to believe that there will not be any bigger difficulties for him to get a job. The rumor over here is that the English like Swedes .

I don't think the market is actually that bad round here. The Polish don't seem to have any problems getting jobs over here so I don't see any reason why your FI would. Worth looking a sites like Monster to see the kind of jobs that are available.

Regarding expenses, since I am still a student and Stockholm is darn expensive we are pretty frugal tex stocking up on meat and such when they are on offer, doing a lot of shopping at Lidl, etc. From what we have seen groceries are actually cheaper in London than Sweden and so is going out, etc. Would £400 for groceries a month be ok for two people?

DH and I buy most of our food from supermarkets and although we eat the nicer ranges we do stock up on offers and I haunt the reduced section and fill the freezer! I reckon we probably spend £250 a month and that includes things like cleaning products, toiletries etc. Eating out isn't very cheap - but it can be! I use TopTable's 50% offers and it can work out very cheap if you don't drink much!

I would be working in Victoria, any tips regarding which areas we should search for an apartment? We do want a 1 bedroom apartment. If staying within a 30 min commute to Victoria would around £1000 be doable?

Hmmm, Victoria itself is very expensive... For your budget I would look at places on the tube lines like Vauxhall/Stockwell on the Victoria line, London Bridge/Bermondsey/Rotherhithe on the Jubilee. For £1k a month, including council tax, service charges etc you aren't going to find anything very glamorous - most likely an ex-local authority flat - but you'll have more chance of finding something in the areas I suggested than if you start heading North or West. It also keeps you in Zones 1 & 2 which will cut your commute and save money on transport. Do check the distance from front doors to transport links - the nearer you are to a tube station the better (the Jubilee line is very new and pretty reliable, some of the others are less so), check bus frequencies as you can often be left waiting 20 minutes for one of the 'every 8-12 minutes' ones. You'll then need to add costs for water/electricity/gas etc which is probably around £150 a month. Check out Gumtree, Trovit and Find a Property for an idea of what is available

We were figuring around £500 for transportation costs, home insurance and the like.

Transport - a Zone 1 & 2 Oyster Card costs around £28 a week and gives you unlimited travel in those zones on buses, trains and tube. This is by far the cheapest way to get around London.
Anything we should keep in mind for living in London?

It's a great place and there are lots of 'free' things to do - museums, feeding squirrels in St James's Park etc. It's also much safer than most people think! Up My Street is a good website to check out a neighbourhood.

I am very grateful for any help that you can give.

 

[JulieN]

Re: Help! Get my Masters or consulting in London or Stockhol

tl;dr.

But my advice is always to get a job in your field rather than more school, especially for business.

 

[Ickeymouse]

Re: Help! Get my Masters or consulting in London or Stockhol

Thank you for your response. Why do you think I should get the Masters?

People with higher degrees earn more money statistically, and are put in more supervisory positions (I know there are exceptions to this, I am talking on the whole). The job market being as competitive as it is, you are setting yourself up with a great advantage if you have a higher degree.

Also, it sounded like you have an opportunity now, to get your masters. I say, get it NOW while/if you can, because once you are married, and if you have children, other responsibilities and needs and emergencies will prevent you from doing a lot of things that require huge amounts of your time (like attending school). Time, that you could have afforded when you were single.

One final reason. Education, and higher learning, will always have intangible benefits. The hard work, effort and sacrifice will help you grow as a person.

Best Wishes

 

[Pandora II]

Re: Help! Get my Masters or consulting in London or Stockhol

Thank you for your response. Why do you think I should get the Masters?

People with higher degrees earn more money statistically, and are put in more supervisory positions (I know there are exceptions to this, I am talking on the whole). The job market being as competitive as it is, you are setting yourself up with a great advantage if you have a higher degree.

Also, it sounded like you have an opportunity now, to get your masters. I say, get it NOW while/if you can, because once you are married, and if you have children, other responsibilities and needs and emergencies will prevent you from doing a lot of things that require huge amounts of your time (like attending school). Time, that you could have afforded when you were single.

One final reason. Education, and higher learning, will always have intangible benefits. The hard work, effort and sacrifice will help you grow as a person.

Best Wishes

To be honest I only think that applies in the USA. Here in the UK it is quite unnecessary - unless you are an academic - to have a graduate degree. If anything it will put your chances of getting a job back because while you've been studying, others have been working and gaining experience in the actual job market. If you have an MA plus the relevant work experience it may or may not give you an advantage - it's not a definite.

When I was recruiting, I'd hire someone with a BA and relevant experience over an MA and no experience any day.

Out of all my friends and family - all of whom went to leading universities in the UK, mainly Oxford or Cambridge - only 3 have graduate degrees. Two are academics at Oxford and the other is my BIL who doesn't need it in the slightest for his job.

Natascha - regarding the Big 3 - when I graduated I went to work for the absolute top company worldwide for the thing I wanted to do. I didn't want to stay long-term which was an issue as any move in the same area would have been a downgrade which looks worse on your cv than an upgrade so in the end I switched direction. Starting right at the top isn't always a great move!

 

[mrscushion]

Re: Help! Get my Masters or consulting in London or Stockhol

I was hoping that you would respond .

FI's does not have a university degree and he is working as a salesclerk. He enjoys his job and he likes the people he works with but he is never going to earn major bucks, have great growth prospects etc. He wants to become a police officer but it is really hard to get into the police academy since there are so many applying.

Sounds like you've got things figured out with your FI. I don't have much to say on the job market for sales clerks in the UK right now. He does have a work visa, right?

He is fine with me becoming the major breadwinner. We realized pretty early that that is how it was going to be, in the beginning I will earn double what he does and the difference is just going to become greater as time goes. We have also discussed that in the long term if we chose to have children he will probably be taking of a year in the beginning and will after that be working part time.

Pretty cool guy you've got there.

We have been looking into living expenses and they should be perfectly doable on just my wage. The only thing that will probably cost more compared to now is rent, Stockholm is a very expensive city as well.

Yeah, I forgot that Scandinavian cities are ultra-expensive, too -- I'm going on a trip to Norway this summer and stuff is expensive. I was only asking because my friends that moved to London after school to pursue consulting careers did not end up living the good life as much as they had hoped on their salaries, because everything is so outrageously expensive, most of all rent. But I guess if you're used to it, it's okay.

Regarding the Master, the one I would do now is a Master of Science in Business and Economics with a specialization in Accounting and Financial Management. I would hopefully finish my Bachelor in Law and do a CEMS Master in International Management as well. Yikes that sounds a lot, I would end up with 4 degrees.
The thing is after speaking to Bain et al here in Sweden, they are basically saying that I would enter on the same level independently of just a bachelor vs. a Master. That makes me want to start working now and not come back and do a normal Master but maybe do a MBA down the road.

This is true. The major difference in rank with my firm too comes after the MBA.

At the same time I just heard from BCG that it is a no. Pretty expected since I have only heard of them giving offers in November. I just wonder if I would get in after the Master and if it is worth it. Are big 3 so much better than Lhvfuayd Ejhvjk Khtfvj (grab the first letter ) for my career that 2 more years is worth it?

Hmmm, to me, it does not sound like a very good reason to do school for 2 more years in order to get another shot at the big 3 firms. You'll always have another shot later, either after your continuing degree or as an experienced lateral hire.

In terms of going back to the Master's program later, please don't worry about getting in. You'll get in in the future. First off, you have an innate advantage being a woman applying to b-school programs. As far as I know, they are all looking to up their women quota! Plus, your grades are so good, I don't see why they wouldn't take you again in a few years if you chose not to accept your place now.

I think a job at Lhvfuayd Ejhvjk Khtfvj will teach you a lot, your analytical skills will be incredible, you'll likely have done a lot of due diligence work for private equity firms and if that interests you as a future career, you'd be well qualified to make that move, but you'll also face some pretty stressful years, with limited time for your FI. That firm *sweats* its juniors! Just keep that in mind.

Congrats on creating good options for yourself and good luck making your decision!

 

[mrscushion]

Re: Help! Get my Masters or consulting in London or Stockhol

Hey natasha! What did you decide to do?

 

[natascha]

Re: Help! Get my Masters or consulting in London or Stockhol

I came back to read this thread and discovered to my extreme embarrassment that I forgot to come back and tell y0u guys what happened! I am very sorry for that .

I want to thank you all for helping me through that phase, your comments wear really helpful in crystallizing my thoughts and giving me security that I was not forgetting anything major.

Slight recap: I finally decided to not accept the offer and to do my Masters.
There were two main reasons for that:
1. I started thinking more long term, talking with my fiance about where we wanted to be in 10 years. He feels that if we have children ( that would be in 10-12 years) he wants to be back in Sweden. Those types of thoughts brought out into the light a hidden part of me that feels that being a board professionalism (sorry for the weird translation) sounds wonderful. At least in Sweden, those types of positions do like several degrees in addition to work experience. Also the company I was considering is not well known in Sweden which did give it some minus points.

2. Probably most important were those intangible reasons that are so hard to describe. I do not think we were ready to make that decision. I felt that I had not looked into all my options and I was a bit worried that I was going to always wonder what if. Also, if I accepted the offer I would not be able to continue my law studies and would have felt that my hard work there would have gone down the drain. Moreover I was a bit worried that my fiance would not be happy if he did not get a job he likes. Funny enough I also felt that I had more to learn, I am actually quite good at accounting issues and that is an area that I feel you need to be in school to continue learning.

Lastly, during my interview process I did not like one of my interviewers. He was the most senior partner that I met and when I came in to his office ( it was my first interview in that round, I came directly from the airport so I was a bit tired) he said his name so fast, before even looking at me, that I did not even hear what he said. He then proceeded with telling me that he would go right ahead since he wanted to do two cases with me instead of one and oh yeah the first one would replace the math test I was supposed to do later in the day. I usually enjoy cases but that was horrible. Funny thing later that day I talked to another guy that had the same interviewers as me, he had 2 cases while I had 4, he actually got some respites between interviews while I was practically run from one office to another. Sure I can take it, I actually flew back that same night since I had to be back for an early morning meeting in Stockholm (who needs sleep, right?). But that first interview in addition to mscushions comments kind of made me think, if that is what they are doing when they are wooing me what are they going to do when they have me under contract.

Sorry for the tangent. Anyway I have now started the Master program. To my shock I am actually really enjoying it! I think my summer really helped. After everything that went on during spring I went a bit nuts and decided to ignore that I should be working/ doing an internship and instead spent a month in Thailand and Cambodia. Boy did I need that! Of course I am who I am and therefore could not be totally free during the summer but sitting on the beach on a tiny island of the coast of Thailand, during the middle of the night to listen to a lecture in law was not that difficult .

 

[smitcompton]

Re: Help! Get my Masters or consulting in London or Stockhol

Hi,

How nice to hear from you. I know you will be a success in anything you try. Take vacations when you are tired. It helps.

good luck,

Annette

 

[centralsquare]

Re: Help! Get my Masters or consulting in London or Stockhol

Glad to hear you figured it out and sounds like you are very happy!

 

[mrscushion]

Re: Help! Get my Masters or consulting in London or Stockhol

Good to see you came back after all. Sounds like you made a mature decision based on both your and your FI's interests.