Help for the Confused? -- Pricing Question

[jaguarnation]

First off... thanks in advance to all the PSers who I know will provide me with answers far beyond my expectations. I am in the process of purchasing a ring for my ''better'' half. We went to a local jeweler and found a setting and three diamonds that she likes that all fit in the setting. All three diamonds are ideal cut. I am debating between two, but want to make sure about what I should be paying for one of the stones (the other stone looks reasonably priced based on what I have seen at other jewelers). So, is $9800 a reasonable amount to pay for a 1.51 ct, G color, Ideal cut, SI1 round diamond?

Let me be the first to admit I am not a diamond expert. In fact, if ''diamondology'' were grade school, I would be in pre-kindergarten! With this in mind, I open myself up to the forum. I ask for your assistance, your kindness, and most of all your high level diamond IQ. Danke!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Welcome! The first question we would have to ask is what grading lab graded the stone a G SI1 and ideal cut? I think the price sounds too low for a GIA or AGS stone. And if it is not one of those, there''s no telling what the stone really is. So who graded it is very important.

 

[jaguarnation]

Diamondseeker:

It looks like the diamonds were ''certified'' by the European Gemological Lab. (I have to be honest, I do not think I have ever heard of such a place, but maybe it is the European equivalent of the GIA?)

 

[JulieN]

aka EGL

there is no European equivalent of GIA. GIA is THE GIA everywhere. "the world's foremost authority."

 

[lisa1.01fvs1]

Do you know the "stats" of the diamond? crown, pavillion angles, table, total depth % etc.? Should be on the cert.

 

[LegacyGirl]

Date: 2/12/2008 2:10:39 PM
Author: JulieN
aka EGL

there is no European equivalent of GIA. GIA is THE GIA everywhere. ''the world''s foremost authority.''

Yup. And while EGL has claimed to be grading stricter I''d still be wary and think that it could be within 1 color (so that EGL G might be a GIA H)

 

[jaguarnation]

I got the jeweler to fax me the certs for both diamonds I am considering.

Diamond 1

4 C''s
Cut & Shape: Round Brilliant
Carat Weight: 1.51
Fluor: None (looked a little blue in the sunlight)
Color Grade: G
Clarity: SI1

Proportions
Dimensions: 7.26 - 7.23 x 4.61
Graining: Nill
Total Depth: 63.6%
Crown Height: 15%
Table Width: 57%
Pavillion Depth: 44%
Girdle: Slightly Thick, Faceted

Finish
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Very Good
Cutlet: None

Comments
- "DiaScript" appears on the girdle.
- "Tolkowsy Ideal Cut"
- 8 Hearts & 8 Arrows
- Conflict Free Diamond

Diamond 2

4 C''s
Cut & Shape: Round Brilliant
Carat Weight: 1.2
Fluor: None (also had a little blue to it)
Color Grade: D
Clarity: VS2
Proportions
Dimensions: 6.96 - 6.87 x 4.12
Graining: Nill
Total Depth: 59.6%
Crown Height: 13%
Table Width: 60%
Pavillion Depth: 44%
Girdle: Slightly Thick, Faceted
Finish
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Very Good
Cutlet: None
Comments
- "DiaScript" appears on the girdle.
- "Premium Cut": The proportions of this diamond are within the tolerance of those of the Premium Cut, thus achieving a harmonious balance between proportion & the display of brilliance.
- 8 Hearts & 8 Arrows
- Conflict Free Diamond
__________________________________________________________

A few comments, both diamonds appeared to have a relatively high amount of brilliance versus other diamonds we have looked at. Diamond 2 was far and away the most brilliant diamond we think we have seen. It had a lot of fire. (I think it might have etched its image on my retinas.) Both diamonds are near the same cost point. The larger diamond is more expensive by about $900.

Thanks again to everyone who is responding. I truly appreciate the assistance.

 

[Sparkalicious]

It''s hard to say without the crown & pavilion angle info ... Are you able to obtain that info as well?

Without this info, just looking at what you posted so far ... I am more drawn to Diamond# 2 but this is probably just due to the D/VS2 combo, which is a personal preference and doesn''t really speak to the expected "performance" of either diamond.

Diamond 1 has a deeper depth, thus it might not "face up" as large as other diamonds in the same carat range.
Diamond 2 is less deep and has a larger table or "spread" and should, therefore, "face up" larger, however, we would really need the crown & pavilion angle info to make a more educated guess as to which one might be a better choice.

Were you drawn to either one of these diamonds more than the other?

 

[dmus]

Everything I read says an EGL is not as good as a GIA or AGS cert. The depth on diamond 1, 63.6%, is far too deep to be an ideal cut in my humble opinion. Your spread is 7.26 due to depth. If the EGL cert is as accurate as a GIA or AGS, $9800 seems to be a competitive price. I just bought a 1.53 AGS000 for $10,900. Depth was 60.1% giving a spread of 7.5mm. However, it would be nice to know the angles on the 1.51.

 

[jaguarnation]

Spark-a-licious (Are you related to the great Fergie-licious one?):

I went back to the jeweler''s today and looked at both diamonds. The smaller diamond is clearly of a higher quality. Super fire, dances like crazy in various types of light. I looked at it in sunlight, under the UV lamp, under fluorescent lights, and with good old faithful incandescent lighting. Of course it looked best under the sun and UV lamp, but it also had a lot of brilliance in the other lighting settings. When I looked at it through the loupe (spelling?), the inclusion was fairly small. The larger diamond had an two trace inclusions that required the loupe to see and also looked a little cloudy near the edge of the diamond on one side.

Thus, I have decided that of the two diamonds, the smaller one is my preference. It is somewhat smaller in the setting, but, the way it sparkles, I do not think it matters too much. Also, the jeweler said he was happy to have the D VS2 (smaller diamond) shipped off to an independent appraiser. I have a cousin who is a jeweler in Virginia who suggested an appraiser. We sent the diamond off this afternoon. The assessment should be completed sometime next week because this person is relatively close to here (I live in South Louisiana.). [The jeweler paid for the shipping, but I am footing the bill for the appraisal.]

I recognize that the color grade may slip a little or perhaps the clarity may be a SI1 instead, but neither My Lady or I are super diamond addicts (no offense to the forum -- you folks are awesome). As long as it gets a decent rating, I believe I will go with it. The jeweler (who it turns out gets alot of business from folks at the company I work for) said he would be willing to reduce the selling price if the diamond was not ''as listed''. (I also recognize this might just be ''pie-in-the-sky'' talking because we did not discuss actual reduction $$$$. At least he was willing to have the diamond undergo the appraisal.

)

Also, I asked him to take a few digital pics of the ring (well actually the pics will be of a white gold setting while the platinum version is being fabricated). Once I get the pics via e-mail, I will post them. Thanks again for all the help. It has been greatly appreciated!

 

[pauly1]

Sounds like you are getting great advice. Just curious, what ever happened with your cushion idea ?

 

[jaguarnation]

Pauly, you have raised an excellent question. I wanted to have a ring designed very similarly to the one you had made. This was particularly nice because it incorporated sapphires, which is her birthstone. While at a local jeweler''s looking at all sorts of diamonds and settings, my lady absolutely fell in love with this other setting. (It is a lovely setting, however, I personally would have liked the cushion setting slightly more.)

Nevertheless, once it was clear to me that she had keyed in on ''the setting'' as it quickly became known as, we tried to determine which diamond would look best in the setting. The setting has 5 round G color diamonds on going down either side of the center stone. While a cushion did ''fit'', a 1.25 - 1.5 carat round with a lot of fire seems to be what this setting was designed for. The diamond I am currently looking at is slightly smaller at 1.2 cts, but it still fills out the mount well and it has a lot of fire. To our admittedly untrained eyes, when you look at the diamond in the setting, and you get to see all 11 diamonds with a reasonable amount of brilliance, it is something to see. My lady particularly likes it when she is ''faux typing'' or making some other hand movement because then you can see all the fire moving.

Once she decided she liked that setting, we had the jeweler make a few modifications. (Band in platinum, a little pave added) It looks really nice. Hopefully the jeweler will email me the pics in the near future. If not, when I go and pick up the ring (in about 6 weeks when the setting is complete), I will take some pictures.

 

[jaguarnation]

Mighty UPS or Fedex or DHL must move quickly. The appraiser called and said he has received the diamond. Hopefully, I will get some good news back in the near future.

 

[jaguarnation]

For those that might care... i got the results of the appraisal on the 1.2 ct.

Good news: The appraiser rated the color as a D. When I talked to him, he said it was a ''soft'' D, which I assume it means it might be on the lower end of the D range. Also, the clarity came back as a VS2. The appraiser said he thought the ring was quite fiery.

Mediocre news: The cut came back as an AGS 1 (excellent). This is lower than the EGL rating. I can''t say that I am too disappointed, but I guess this shows the difference between AGS and EGL. Of course the appraiser gave me the speech about an excellent cut being a great diamond. As far as I am concerned, it is a very nice diamond, so I am satisfied.

Jeweler Follow-up: I called the jeweler to discuss the cut rating. After a short haggling session, the jeweler came off of the price by about 15%. While this is not what I hoped for, it is a step in the right direction. Once the price was adjusted, I decided to go ahead and purchase the 1.2 ct.

Thanks for the help! I promise I will get around to pictures shortly!

 

[jaguarnation]

Date: 2/22/2008 10:50:39 PM
Author: jaguarnation
For those that might care... i got the results of the appraisal on the 1.2 ct.

Good news: The appraiser rated the color as a D. When I talked to him, he said it was a ''soft'' D, which I assume it means it might be on the lower end of the D range. Also, the clarity came back as a VS2. The appraiser said he thought the ring was quite fiery.

Mediocre news: The cut came back as an AGS 1 (excellent). This is lower than the EGL rating. I can''t say that I am too disappointed, but I guess this shows the difference between AGS and EGL. Of course the appraiser gave me the speech about an excellent cut being a great diamond. As far as I am concerned, it is a very nice diamond, so I am satisfied.

Jeweler Follow-up: I called the jeweler to discuss the cut rating. After a short haggling session, the jeweler came off of the price by about 15%. While this is not what I hoped for, it is a step in the right direction. Once the price was adjusted, I decided to go ahead and purchase the 1.2 ct.

Thanks for the help! I promise I will get around to pictures shortly!

Here is a strange one. I just read the faxed document from the appraiser. In the faxed document, it says the cut is an AGS0. I will call the appraiser and see which one is correct. If this is an AGS0, then I have a different question, should I tell the jeweler and then pay full price?

 

[jaguarnation]

AGS 1

I still feel pretty good though. Another item resolved in this crazy thing we call life! Thanks again for the help.