HELP: EGL usa certificate NO "CUT" GRADE

[verstft]

The EGL USA diamond I'm looking at doesn't have a grade for CUT. Is it possible for me to figure out if the cut is good based on the size/proportion etc of the actual diamond? Also, any reason why the seller might be trying to conceal cut rating? I believe there is an option for EGL certificate with no CUT rating.

Measurements: 6.85 - 6.83 - 4.33mm

Proportions:
depth: 63,3%
table: 58%
Crown: 14.8%
Pavillion: 44.0%
Girdle: Medium to Sl. Thick
Culet: NONE

Finish:
Polish: Very good
Symmetry: good

regards.

 

[Frenchcut]

When no cut grade is shown it often means that the seller wants to hide something...especially with an EGL cert (EGL being less strict than other labs it's sometimes used to grad stones that wouldn't get a top grade from GIA/AGS...).

I'm not a specialist but from the figures you provided your stone looks deep meaning that some weight is hidden in the bottom of the stone. By the way, what is the weight of your stone?

Also, on the HCA your stone scores 4.9 - Good - Only if price is your main criterion. On PS it is often suggested only to consider stones that score under 2.

That may confirm that stone doesn't belong to the top of the crop but I will let more experienced Pricescopers give you their opinion.

 

[slg47]

The EGL USA diamond I'm looking at doesn't have a grade for CUT. Is it possible for me to figure out if the cut is good based on the size/proportion etc of the actual diamond? Also, any reason why the seller might be trying to conceal cut rating? I believe there is an option for EGL certificate with no CUT rating.

Measurements: 6.85 - 6.83 - 4.33mm

Proportions:
depth: 63,3%
table: 58%
Crown: 14.8%
Pavillion: 44.0%
Girdle: Medium to Sl. Thick
Culet: NONE

Finish:
Polish: Very good
Symmetry: good

regards.

you can use the HCA tool (pricescope.com/tools/hca) to see how this diamond fares. It scores "Good-only if price is your main criterion". This stone is too deep at 63.3% and will probably have small dimensions for its carat weight. I would also encourage you to read about EGL vs GIA/AGS.

 

[verstft]

By the way, what is the weight of your stone?

The weight is 1.26ct.

I started at a 1ct. and I'm entertaining compromising some quality to get something bigger in size to make my sweetie happy. An ideal cut
1.25ct stone is out of my budget unfortunately

 

[Frenchcut]

I've just made a quick search using PS search tool to check the average spread of a 1.25 carat ex cut and it seems to average 6.95, meaning that your stone is indeed a bit small looking from the top for its weight.

That seems quite logic given its depth and that's why deep stones are usually not a good buy...they tend to look smaller than another better cut stone. Deep diamonds can also show some leakage, meaning light return wont be optimal.

 

[Frenchcut]

By the way, what is the weight of your stone?

The weight is 1.26ct.

I started at a 1ct. and I'm entertaining compromising some quality to get something bigger in size to make my sweetie happy. An ideal cut
1.25ct stone is out of my budget unfortunately

You should not compromise on cut, even to go bigger...at least not to the point that you may end up with a not so beautiful diamond

We all have to make compromises sometimes but cut is the last criteria you should compromise on when looking for a diamond. You girlfriend may be happy at first to receive a bigger rock, but she won't like it if it's not sparkly!

There are a lot of helpful Pricescopers that will be more than happy to help you with your search for a great stone if you tell us what you're looking for (clariy/color/carat and budget of course!)...

 

[Lotus99]

What clarity and color grades are the EGL diamond and others you've been looking at?

And, what is your budget?

I'm sure the kind people of PS can help you find a great diamond within your budget.

 

[Upgradable]

I think it is important to remember a couple of things.

First, the HCA is only to be used as a tool to reject "virtual" diamonds. It was not designed to be a cut grading tool. I think since the GIA and AGS ideal parameters have been overlayed on top, it's a bit too easy to use it inappropriately.

Second, it was developed by a single individual, based on his interpretation of what he believes is the most beautiful stone cut. I know I'm close to PS blasphemy, but I personally do not completely agree with Gary Holloway's ideal.

I tend to like stones that are a tad deeper than his parameters, and a smaller table and higher crown angle. What this really boils down to is, after doing your due diligence, find what makes your heart sing!!

Oh, and here's another tool, developed by another highly skilled diamond expert, Dave Atlas. http://www.datlas.com/grade_calculator.php
And an article discussing the two different systems: http://www.datlas.com/agaholloway.htm

 

[verstft]

Thanks for all the opinions. I value all of them.

I should mention that I definitely fall under the "bargain shopper" category and I know a lot of the people on price scope are very knowledgable diamond enthusiasts.

I started my quest on a 1c diamond hunt. My budget including setting was 3-5k.

I'm now looking at a 1.25c with setting for close to 6k OTD.

here's some more specs:

1.25c

EGL USA
shape and cut: round brilliant

finish: very good
symmetry: good

clarity: si2

Color: F

No fluorescence.

 

[Mico]

I just posted this on another person's thread looking for a 1ct-ish RB. I think it's pretty, but my stone is going to be roughly 8x8mm and it won't fit my stone...

http://diamondbistro.com/category/196/Rings/listings/28655/Leon-Mege-classic-solitaire-setting.html

It would have helped us stay in out budget if it would fit my stone

 

[Rockdiamond]

Hi all,
verstft- what long hard experience has taught me is that "bargain shoppers" are very often the best target for sellers who sell misgraded diamonds.
The trade won't use EGL grading for pricing- neither should consumers.

The reason: what might seem like a bargain may actually be the opposite based on the erroneous grade.
Also- the seller should be the one telling you this- if they have an interest in honest representation..
If they're in this business, they know exactly what I'm talking about.
If they don't want you to know this it raises all kinds of red flags.

 

[John P]

Measurements: 6.85 - 6.83 - 4.33mm
Proportions:
depth: 63,3%
table: 58%
Crown: 14.8%
Pavillion: 44.0%
Girdle: Medium to Sl. Thick
Culet: NONE
Finish:
Polish: Very good
Symmetry: good

regards.

I can't tell if this is still the diamond you're looking at? If it is, you should know the following:

Based on those measurements the primary angles are PA 41.3 / CA 35.3.
HCA 4.8
GIA VG cut grade
AGS 5 light performance (predicted)

More importantly, it might weigh 1.25ct but it has the side to side width of a well-cut 1.15ct. Unfortunately it won't appear even that large away from spotlighting because the cutting angles will cause its edges to go dark in softer light.

 

[denverappraiser]

EGL-USA does assign cut grades, at least on round stones and possibly others. They call things ‘hearts and arrows’, ‘ideal’, ‘tolkowski’, 'excellent', ‘premium’ and a variety of other terms. They’re not especially transparent about what they mean from the various grades but at every EGL lab, one of the options for cut grade is to list nothing. The implication from your question is that they didn’t grade the cut. They graded it and chose not to tell you their findings. These are most definitely not the same thing.

 

[verstft]

EGL-USA does assign cut grades, at least on round stones and possibly others. They call things ‘hearts and arrows’, ‘ideal’, ‘tolkowski’, 'excellent', ‘premium’ and a variety of other terms. They’re not especially transparent about what they mean from the various grades but at every EGL lab, one of the options for cut grade is to list nothing. The implication from your question is that they didn’t grade the cut. They graded it and chose not to tell you their findings. These are most definitely not the same thing.

I'm not sure I follow. I don't see anything on the certificate that mentions anything about the cut. There is no number grade, and there isn't any naming either "tlkowski" "excellent" "premium" that I can tell. Unless "brilliant" is an indication of cut.

 

[denverappraiser]

EGL-USA does assign cut grades, at least on round stones and possibly others. They call things ‘hearts and arrows’, ‘ideal’, ‘tolkowski’, 'excellent', ‘premium’ and a variety of other terms. They’re not especially transparent about what they mean from the various grades but at every EGL lab, one of the options for cut grade is to list nothing. The implication from your question is that they didn’t grade the cut. They graded it and chose not to tell you their findings. These are most definitely not the same thing.

I'm not sure I follow. I don't see anything on the certificate that mentions anything about the cut. There is no number grade, and there isn't any naming either "tlkowski" "excellent" "premium" that I can tell. Unless "brilliant" is an indication of cut.

They have a cut grading scale. One of the grades available is to say nothing on the report. This is what you have. You know by them making this choice that it's NOT 'excellent', 'ideal', 'premium' or whatever other descriptiors they want to use on their scale because if it was one of those things, it would say it. Nothing written is similar in meaning to 'none of the above'.

I'll try to phrase it another way. EGL-USA offers a considerable number of different report formats depending on the requirements of the client (important safety tip: YOU were not the client). Several of those formats omit certain data and several include extra data. The client, meaning the person selling to you or their supplier, CHOSE the one you got based on what they wanted you to know. A wise old diamond dealer once told me that a 'certificate' is like a bikini on a girl - What it conceals is at least as important than what it reveals.

This just doesn't happen with EGL-USA by the way. It's a huge problem at AGSL and to a lesser extent GIA. The AGS cut scale goes from 0-10 with 0 at the top and you'll notice that 2-10 barely exist in the marketplace. It's not because these stones don't exist. This is a tough scale and there are some fabulous stones that fall in this range. What's happening is that these stones are either given a report that doesn't include the cut grade or, more often, are simply submitted to a different lab who either use a different scale that looks better or a grade of none at all.