Help Educate me - why is this an AGS 2?

[kristy_lyn]

I''m getting the concept of the HCA system... but, why does this diamond below have a good HCA number, but an AGS score of ?



0.83 F VS2
0.8-EX
vg-ex-ex-ex
AGS 2
58.5% 58%
32.5° 40.6°
thn-med no
ex
vg
no
6.15*6.23*3.62
$3572

 

[diamondseeker2006]

You want a crown angle between 34 and 35 for one thing. The depth is too shallow and the table a bit large.

 

[belle]

that crown and pavilion combo is not going to get the top grade
polish and symmetry are only ''very good'' and ''excellent''

so probably a ding for light performance
and for finish

it would have this info on the grading report.

 

[belle]

Date: 6/20/2006 10:07:51 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
You want a crown angle between 34 and 35 for one thing. The depth is too shallow and the table a bit large.

actually, with a 40.6 pa the ca would need to be in the 35.5-36.5 range with a 58% table.

 

[kristy_lyn]

Is a 2 considered a "bad" cut?
And, if the HCA score is still good, then theoretically, it should *look* good, right???

 

[belle]

Date: 6/20/2006 10:18:20 PM
Author: kristy_lyn

Is a 2 considered a ''bad'' cut?
And, if the HCA score is still good, then theoretically, it should *look* good, right???

there are diamonds that get gia''s top grade of ''excellent'' that are lower than an ags2.

can you get more info on it, such as an idealscope image and the actual grading report?

 

[kristy_lyn]

I haven''t gotten to the point of getting the images... JamesAllen doesn''t link to them in the PS search engine.

I was just trying to understand what the differences are between the two numbers...

 

[Mara]

hmm i''d pass. it''s an okay cut with a higher color and clarity for less. there''s a reason it''s a little less. the cut quality. depends on what you want to see. an F color...or an exceptional cut with lots of sparkle.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Date: 6/20/2006 10:12:40 PM
Author: belle

Date: 6/20/2006 10:07:51 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
You want a crown angle between 34 and 35 for one thing. The depth is too shallow and the table a bit large.

actually, with a 40.6 pa the ca would need to be in the 35.5-36.5 range with a 58% table.

Are you saying those numbers would get AGS0? I put that she''d want a CA of 34-35 because that is the standard for WF ACA.

 

[belle]

Date: 6/20/2006 11:45:26 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006

Date: 6/20/2006 10:12:40 PM
Author: belle

Date: 6/20/2006 10:07:51 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
You want a crown angle between 34 and 35 for one thing. The depth is too shallow and the table a bit large.

actually, with a 40.6 pa the ca would need to be in the 35.5-36.5 range with a 58% table.

Are you saying those numbers would get AGS0? I put that she''d want a CA of 34-35 because that is the standard for WF ACA.

yes, those numbers would make it an ags0 candidate.

34-35 ca may be ''standard'' for aca''s but this diamond has a 40.6 pa and a 58% table which is not ''standard'' for aca''s. you have to look at the whole picture, not just one piece.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Date: 6/21/2006 12:10:16 AM
Author: belle

Date: 6/20/2006 11:45:26 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006

Date: 6/20/2006 10:12:40 PM
Author: belle

Date: 6/20/2006 10:07:51 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
You want a crown angle between 34 and 35 for one thing. The depth is too shallow and the table a bit large.

actually, with a 40.6 pa the ca would need to be in the 35.5-36.5 range with a 58% table.

Are you saying those numbers would get AGS0? I put that she''d want a CA of 34-35 because that is the standard for WF ACA.

yes, those numbers would make it an ags0 candidate.

34-35 ca may be ''standard'' for aca''s but this diamond has a 40.6 pa and a 58% table which is not ''standard'' for aca''s. you have to look at the whole picture, not just one piece.

Thanks! I''m on vacation and don''t have my ideal number charts with me! I almost have the ACA numbers memorized, though! I just wouldn''t personally choose 40.6 pa, 36.5 ca, and 58% table even if it was AGS0.

 

[belle]

Date: 6/21/2006 12:16:38 AM
Author: diamondseeker2006

Thanks! I''m on vacation and don''t have my ideal number charts with me! I almost have the ACA numbers memorized, though! I just wouldn''t personally choose 40.6 pa, 36.5 ca, and 58% table even if it was AGS0.

you better not be on vacation! what are you doing here? go have fun!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Date: 6/21/2006 12:20:31 AM
Author: belle

Date: 6/21/2006 12:16:38 AM
Author: diamondseeker2006

Thanks! I''m on vacation and don''t have my ideal number charts with me! I almost have the ACA numbers memorized, though! I just wouldn''t personally choose 40.6 pa, 36.5 ca, and 58% table even if it was AGS0.

you better not be on vacation! what are you doing here? go have fun!

I need to join PS Anonymous when I get back home.

(I can''t take a break until I find my diamond!!!!!!)

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 6/21/2006 12:16:38 AM
Author: diamondseeker2006

Date: 6/21/2006 12:10:16 AM

Thanks! I''m on vacation and don''t have my ideal number charts with me! I almost have the ACA numbers memorized, though! I just wouldn''t personally choose 40.6 pa, 36.5 ca, and 58% table even if it was AGS0.

You would be missing out on a very very fiery diamond if the LGF% was right.
One thing the new cut grading has shown is that the old ideal standards at the same time were too wide and too narrow.
They included some combos that weren''t the best and left some out that were top notch.
The ACA range WF uses is a good one, Brian designed them to well balanced but they aren''t the yardstick to measure all diamond proportions. They are just at one sweet spot on the stick.
Other combos work just as well.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Storm, so are you basically saying that one is very safe with all AGS0''s with new certs? That would make this process a lot easier.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 6/21/2006 12:03:37 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
Storm, so are you basically saying that one is very safe with all AGS0''s with new certs? That would make this process a lot easier.

New ags0 and an heart image would be enough info.
IS or ASET image would work too.
It doesnt take optical symmetry into account but otherwise the new AGS0 range is a pretty safe one.
There will be difference in appearance between them but woofers arent likely.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

That''s great, Storm! So if one looks at a GIA stone and plugs the numbers into the HCA and it falls in the AGS0 lines, will that work as well?

 

[RockDoc]

Date: 6/21/2006 12:13:22 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
That''s great, Storm! So if one looks at a GIA stone and plugs the numbers into the HCA and it falls in the AGS0 lines, will that work as well?

Not really. The numbers on the HCA are averages. The numbers even on the new GIA cut grade reports are averages, plus they are rounded either up or down.

I do not know if the HCA takes the NEW AGS cut grade into consideration, and if it does, it is still only providing results that are proportion based.

Most of the AGS grades supplied by sellers are based on the OLD AGS grading system, that is generated by the Sarin or OGI proportions.

A requirement of analyzing the stone with the NEW AGS grades is that the symmetry and polished be personally exammined.

The only POSITIVE way to know how it rates on the NEW grading system is to send it to AGS and get it graded there.

Those who have the new AGS/PGS software can estimate it with a Sarin file or Helium file.

AGS does downgrade the cut based on characteristics that are not covered within the GIA cut grade. In the ones that I''ve tested with the software, if the stone gets a 1-4 on either the symmetry or polish, it take a big hit on the final cut grade.

I haven''t done a huge number of these yet, as the PGS software is still only recently released, but for the ones I have imaged and changed the data on the polish and symmetry, even if the other data is a "0", the final cut grade is lowered in the results.

So, the polish and symmetry, seems to be paramount to its cut grade, and in the new system, that needs to be seen and verified as to the quality of it.

Rockdoc

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Thanks, Rock Doc! It surely makes it hard for a regular person to choose a diamond! I guess this really goes to show why it pays to buy from vendors that post additional information such as the scopes and scans, etc.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 6/21/2006 12:13:22 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
That''s great, Storm! So if one looks at a GIA stone and plugs the numbers into the HCA and it falls in the AGS0 lines, will that work as well?

It really depends on what level you want to go too.
A new gia cert/hca and an IS image or ASET image would be enough info also but it would take more work and be less reliable than other ways of doing it.
Id prefer a full sarin scan or better yet a helium scan to go with it where with an AGS cert I might consider skipping it.
Heart images if its being sold as h&a are a good idea too.

Instead of relying on the GIA cut grade the info would have to be carefully considered as well as the rounding that is used on the numbers would have to be taken into consideration.

Keep in mind that id prefer much more info than this but I admit my favorite level of info isn''t required to get a kicken diamond.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Storm, I keep thinking that I just need you to find a diamond for me.

 

[Mara]

Date: 6/21/2006 12:56:17 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
Storm, I keep thinking that I just need you to find a diamond for me.

No what you need to do is get off the computer and go enjoy your vacation!!!!! SHOO!

 

[kristy_lyn]

Wow - you all lost me a few posts back.

But, bottom line is that you all think there is better stuff out there.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Date: 6/21/2006 1:25:38 PM
Author: Mara

Date: 6/21/2006 12:56:17 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
Storm, I keep thinking that I just need you to find a diamond for me.

No what you need to do is get off the computer and go enjoy your vacation!!!!! SHOO!

Lol! Believe it or not, Mara, I have been out at the pool!!! It is HOT, though, so I have to come in for a break now and then! I still have a beautiful view of the landscaping, pool, and ocean, so it''s even nice to be inside!

Kristy..you know, this isn''t easy! I''d say see if you can find stones with AGS certs..it will make it easier!

 

[RockDoc]

Where are you vacationing Diamond Seeker.....

You here in FL?

Its hot here.

Rockdoc

 

[diamondseeker2006]

No, I am on the Isle of Palms outside of Charleston, SC. It''s beautiful...but hot!!!

 

[RockDoc]

Date: 6/21/2006 3:01:11 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
No, I am on the Isle of Palms outside of Charleston, SC. It''s beautiful...but hot!!!

Enjoy your vacation there....

Rockdoc