Help! Am I getting my money's worth?

[constantinos]

Hi Pricescope community!

Let me start by saying that, about 2 months ago, I knew *nothing* about diamonds. However, I am a pretty persistent individual, and I am lucky enough to have a woman in my life who (whom? ) I love very much! Those two things led me to research diamond characteristics, and I am happy to say that, at this point, I consider myself a pretty educated consumer. That being said, *most* of my research was regarding modern rounds, which she said she had preferred at the time. Thanks to some gentle encouragement and some very beautiful stones, she has since warmed up to OEC.

This is where I need your help! A lot of the pricing re: OEC seems to be somewhat subjective. They don't seem to be as easily classified as the modern variety. I attribute this to their being hand-cut, and therefore (often times) exhibiting asymmetry. It seems that, in some instances, an "inferior" spec diamond can be cut quite beautifully and exhibit a wonderful snowflake pattern under its table whereas a "better" spec diamond can give the appearance of a shattered windshield!

I am looking at a diamond very much akin to the former...
2 carats
J/K color
VS2 clarity
$17,000
It is a beautiful stone exhibiting a fantastic snowflake pattern under its table, and, for the most part, looks symmetric throughout...a little squiff in some places but hey, it's an antique hand cut diamond! It also appears to have a small chip on one part of the edge and a few (2 or 3) cuts/scrapes on a couple of the facets.

The seller has been FANTASTIC thus far. I don't want to reveal a name just yet until I finalize purchase of the diamond. In case he/she is reading this, by the way, I fully intend to buy the stone (I just get the impression it's "The One") and I am totally satisfied in our dealings!

Although I believe I am getting a fair and square deal (based on comparison of other vendors' prices for similar stones, which seems to range anywhere from $14K to 17-18K) I would like to know the opinion of those who are much more experienced in this regard than I. I'm sure there are many people here who have bought and sold several OEC, so they would have a feel for pricing that I, in my inexperience, am not privy to.
I feel that I am paying at the higher end of fair, but I attribute that to the stone being new to the vendor, and, well, it's his/her livelihood to find, purchase, and sell beautiful stones!

I hope I have not come across as ill intention-ed or as a customer griping about pricing...we all strive to seek out the best deal possible, and of course use resources (like pricescope) available to us for reassurance that we are on the right track! Again, the seller has been an absolute pleasure thus far, and I'd be happy to say who he/she is after the sale is finalized (which I intend to do in a "showing-off-my-fionce's-my-awesome-engagement-ring thread )

Thank you pricescope, looking forward to reading your responses!

 

[constantinos]

Forgot to add...
The reason I am not including a photo is because the stone is already in a pretty distinctive setting, and I wouldn't want to "tip anyone off" to it for fear of having it bought out from under me
Yes, I am a bit paranoid, but it's served me well thus far

 

[maccers]

If you've done the comparables and are pleased with the look of the stone, I would say that the price is very reasonable. I did a quick look at jewelsbyericagrace and good old gold, a 2.0 c OEC should be right around that mark. Of course, without pictures, it's difficult for anyone on the forum to be able to help you. As you pointed out, with OECs, stats don't tell the whole story and pictures (or better, in person viewing) is often all we have to go on.

I'm sure it's beautiful. Please post pictures when you have it in hand.

Out of curiosity, does it have fluor?

 

[constantinos]

If you've done the comparables and are pleased with the look of the stone, I would say that the price is very reasonable. I did a quick look at jewelsbyericagrace and good old gold, a 2.0 c OEC should be right around that mark. Of course, without pictures, it's difficult for anyone on the forum to be able to help you. As you pointed out, with OECs, stats don't tell the whole story and pictures (or better, in person viewing) is often all we have to go on.

I'm sure it's beautiful. Please post pictures when you have it in hand.

Out of curiosity, does it have fluor?

Thank you for the reply maccers!
I will absolutely post photos and (if I can manage to upload it) a video once I have it

I don't believe it exhibits fluor...to be honest, I really wouldn't mind if it did. Might help the color look a bit "whiter" face up. Then again I love the warmth of the stone as is. Win win!

Thanks again. It gives me a feeling of reassurance to know that I'm correct in my assessment so far.
More comments, good/bad/in between are welcome !

 

[constantinos]

Any other thoughts on this? Likely going to send payment tomorrow!

 

[constantinos]

OK OK...the lack of responses has convinced me to put a picture up.

So what I'm looking at here is $17K plus I guess the cost of having the diamond serviced/polished to get rid of those two gashes and the chip. Maybe I can talk to the vendor about that? In other words, account for the cost of repairing damage in the final price?

Anyway, what do you guys think?! Thanks in advance, eager to read your thoughts!

 

[Confection10]

I identified this ring immediately and it's georgeous ( I can only dream about ring like that ). I'm not expert, but sellers are; setting is very beautiful with the greatest finger coverage. Our PS experts will definately tell You more of the stone. Delicious

 

[constantinos]

I identified this ring immediately and it's georgeous ( I can only dream about ring like that ). I'm not expert, but sellers are; setting is very beautiful with the greatest finger coverage. Our PS experts will definately tell You more of the stone. Delicious

Thank you! I too am pleased with the appearance (more importantly, the woman who is going to wear it will love it...at least that's what I hope ). I would very much like to hear from the PS experts.

 

[melz]

Not an expert but I recognize that stone and love it! Will you keep it in the setting?

 

[SB621]

As soon as you posted the picture I knew.

You know you can put something on hold from them for up to 48 hours I think. If you are being paranoid I would do that. that way you don't have to worry about someone purchasing it out from under you.

I think 17k for the diamond + setting is pretty fantastic. That setting would be around 5k to have a repo made. I personally love everything about it. I'm not well versed in OEC's but I like the facet pattern to it.

 

[constantinos]

As soon as you posted the picture I knew.

You know you can put something on hold from them for up to 48 hours I think. If you are being paranoid I would do that. that way you don't have to worry about someone purchasing it out from under you.

I think 17k for the diamond + setting is pretty fantastic. That setting would be around 5k to have a repo made. I personally love everything about it. I'm not well versed in OEC's but I like the facet pattern to it.

Hey, thanks for the replies guys!
The 17K is for the diamond alone. Maybe not as "fantastic" in that setting, but at the very least fair, no?

Thanks again, seems like a lot of people around here know this one!
The buyer is well aware that I'm going to purchase this, simply waiting on the official eval/appraisal.

Honestly, unless someone comes out and out and says "Wow, you are overpaying pay a large margin!," I'm pretty set on this stone.
I HIGHLY doubt that will happen since, again, the seller has been phenomenal and a pleasure to deal with! I can't imagine he/she would get a sterling rep by gouging customers!

There's a wonderful 1.65 OEC in the classifieds here going for $7.5K. How, there's a half carat difference between them, I know, but the color and clarity are comparable, and there's 1 mm of difference in terms of diameter...not the biggest step-off in the world. Everything else being somewhat equivalent (of course, it can never truly be, but that stone too is a real looker!), seems like a big price jump to go up $10K for a half carat!

More or less this is one of the largest purchases of my life thus far and I really just need a pat or two on the back saying I did OK in my search

 

[constantinos]

Not an expert but I recognize that stone and love it! Will you keep it in the setting?

Not planning to, no. Bit too ostentatious as an engagement ring.
Don't get me wrong, the setting is stunning, but doesn't suit my purposes

 

[Confection10]

Just wonder, why do You want this particularly diamond, but not setting? There is couple of diamonds in decent size, in higher/lower color and in almost same price gategorie than this beauty one...those two seems to be together. Maybe I'm too romantic

 

[constantinos]

Just wonder, why do You want this particularly diamond, but not setting? There is couple of diamonds in decent size, in higher/lower color and in almost same price gategorie than this beauty one...those two seems to be together. Maybe I'm too romantic

You are not too romantic at all!
The stone itself is exactly what I want in terms of patterning. The setting, however, is a bit more "bling" than I like. I'd rather show off the beauty of the center stone as a solitaire.

 

[maccers]

Apparently I'm the only one that doesn't recognize that picture

The patterning looks nice and symmetrical, and my quick n dirty scan for loose stone prices shows that you're definitely paying within an acceptable range. Pricing on OECs can be all over the place...I think you're getting a decent deal.

Regarding the 1.65 carat stone pricing: Price jumps occur at each additional 0.5 and, to a lesser extent, .25 carats. Which is why people will buy 0.9 carat stones instead of 1.0 carat, the price goes way up once you hit 1.0 mark (and then again at 1.5, 2.0 etc).

ETA: Is this stone certified (GIA or other lab?)

 

[Roxy]

Apparently I'm the only one that doesn't recognize that picture

The patterning looks nice and symmetrical, and my quick n dirty scan for loose stone prices shows that you're definitely paying within an acceptable range. Pricing on OECs can be all over the place...I think you're getting a decent deal.

Regarding the 1.65 carat stone pricing: Price jumps occur at each additional 0.5 and, to a lesser extent, .25 carats. Which is why people will buy 0.9 carat stones instead of 1.0 carat, the price goes way up once you hit 1.0 mark (and then again at 1.5, 2.0 etc).

ETA: Is this stone certified (GIA or other lab?)

OP, this is a really good point because I'm sure in your case your stone is certified (btw, it's a beauty), but many times when you see diamonds being sold for significantly less $$$ they are not certified (independently through a lab) so they appear to be a better "deal". Since you say that you'll be purchasing it once it's been through a "formal eval/appraisal" (which I read to mean "independent"), it looks like you have the bases covered and are getting a very pretty stone. In fact, maybe once the diamond has been "serviced" and, in your words, the "chip" and "gashes?"/"scrapes?" have been addressed, the clarity grade might go up as well, (but I'm not in the trade so it might be worth asking your vendor about it ). I can't wait to see what setting you decide to go with!

 

[constantinos]

Thank you for the responses! I am very much enjoying mulling over the advice I get here, thanks again

Update...

The stone was appraised at 2 carats, K/L color, SI1 (for the time being, thanks to the mark just past 6 oclock).

If that "mark" is a chip, it is repairable and can certainly lead to a higher grade. If it's an inclusion, then I can always hide it under a prong.

I am hoping that it is indeed a chip that can be polished. What do you guys think? Despite my hope, my gut tells me that's an inclusion. Not the end of the world, but certainly detracts from the value, no?

Given the current "stats," what do you think of the purchase price at $17K? Thanks!

 

[CharmyPoo]

The price seems high compared to what I am seeing on OWD plus I have heard OWD sells cheaper than what is listed on their website. I know on ebay ... you can get a diamond with similar specs for under $10K.

 

[Christina...]

I agree with Charmy. I'm seeing stones with similar specs for less money as well. You also need to factor in the addition risk and cost involved with re-polishing or re-cutting the stone if it is indeed a chip. I'm curious, who has determined the current grading? A lab or the vendor? A lab should have already determined the nature of any inclusions and if indeed their is a chip. Who will be setting the stone? If its another vendor then there will be additional cost and risk involved as well. The setter very likely will not accept responsibility for a stone he did not sell and although its unusual it is not unheard of for a stone to crack or break during setting, which is another good reason to know exactly the nature of any inclusions or damage before hand.

 

[kindred]

I would not pay $17,000 for a diamond I planned to have polished. What if it is destroyed during polishing? You will be out $17,000 and have nothing to show for it. I would suggest buying it and leave it as is, or passing on it.

 

[guilhermeesq]

i personally believe that a similar stone will go for about 5k.

i think you overpaid by about 12 thousand dollars.

 

[guilhermeesq]

on a lighter note, the stone looks very nice , spectacular cut

 

[constantinos]

i personally believe that a similar stone will go for about 5k.

i think you overpaid by about 12 thousand dollars.

thanks again all for the comments.

guilhermeesq, this is a concerning statement to me... can you provide any examples/evidence of this?

I see prices ranging from $12 - 18 K on various sites (owd, gog, jbeg) for similar quality stones, but nowhere do I see prices as low as what you state. Please, if I am paying above top dollar, I would like to know. Thanks!

 

[constantinos]

I would not pay $17,000 for a diamond I planned to have polished. What if it is destroyed during polishing? You will be out $17,000 and have nothing to show for it. I would suggest buying it and leave it as is, or passing on it.

Seller is having it polished, and I haven't given him/her funds yet. Thanks, I am happy with how they are handling that aspect of the sale.

 

[constantinos]

The price seems high compared to what I am seeing on OWD plus I have heard OWD sells cheaper than what is listed on their website. I know on ebay ... you can get a diamond with similar specs for under $10K.

Bummer

 

[constantinos]

K, VS2 http://www.oldworlddiamonds.com/detail.php?ID=960&SHAPE=EU
J, SI1 http://www.oldworlddiamonds.com/detail.php?ID=2821&SHAPE=EU
J, VS1 http://www.oldworlddiamonds.com/detail.php?ID=1318&SHAPE=EU
J, VS1 http://www.oldworlddiamonds.com/detail.php?ID=3799&SHAPE=EU
J, VS1 http://www.oldworlddiamonds.com/detail.php?ID=1412&SHAPE=EU
J, VS1 http://www.oldworlddiamonds.com/detail.php?ID=1219&SHAPE=EU
J, VS1 http://www.oldworlddiamonds.com/detail.php?ID=1261&SHAPE=EU
O, VS1 http://www.oldworlddiamonds.com/detail.php?ID=1261&SHAPE=EU

Quick perusal of OWD this morning, dunno guys...prices are fairly similar.
I'll check eBay as well.

PLEASE NOTE THAT I AM VERY THANKFUL FOR ALL OF THE FEEDBACK THUS FAR! I APPRECIATE ALL OF THE ADVICE FROM YOU GUYS, WHO ARE MORE EXPERIENCED THAN I IN THIS REGARD!

BTW, I believe that the grading was done by a jeweler, not a lab.
Currently it is on its way to the GIA for "official" grading

Sooooo, in summation:
I was offered a beautiful stone by a reputable vendor who has been absolutely courteous. I made an offer thinking the stats of the diamond were 2 carats, J/K, VS1. I came to pricescope to "scout" the price and garner opinion from avid diamond enthusiasts as to whether or not the price was fair. I really love the look of the stone, but there were some issues that concerned me (namely, a chip at 3 oclock and additional chip vs inclusion at 6-7 oclock). He/she then took it to their appraiser, who labeled the stone as K/L, S1 at the moment given the "mark" on the stone at 6-7 oclock. The appraiser could not definitively note whether the mark was a chip or inclusion. The vendor has offered to shoulder the cost of any "repair" necessary (hey, it's a CENTURY old diamond, bound to have some wear!) which I believe to be the right thing to do on their part (which I appreciate, since it is rare to find someone who WANTS to do the right thing!). He/she has also offered the advice that, if the mark is an inclusion, then it can be hidden under a prong. Now, the stone is on its way to GIA for grading. To date, I have NOT paid for the stone, but have an agreement with the vendor that it is mine barring any unforeseen circumstance.

I am HOPING that the mark is repairable, as it may enhance the clarity of the stone back to what I made the offer for!
Otherwise, I am paying for a stone at stats above what it really is, which I do not want to do. Then again, I haven't seen such a beautiful facet pattern on any other diamond, and fear that I may not see it again if I pass on this one!

I am trying to be very transparent here, and appreciate the candor of the responses thus far

I guess at this point it is a waiting game till the report comes back. I am going to need to keep myself occupied, as it's causing me a great deal of angst to think that this diamond may not be what I was hoping it would be/thought it was!

I will update as I get info, please stay tuned, and help keep my mind occupied in the meantime. These wait periods are killer! Dunno how you guys do it

 

[constantinos]

Also, for anyone following this thread, just want to note again:

The seller has been top notch!
All unmounting, repair (if applicable), and certification costs are being handled by them, which I believe to be honest and which I appreciate.
The seller has in no way been anything but forthright! I will gladly note who he/she is once the sale is done, and when I do I will again reiterate that I can't say enough good things about them!