Help a Newbie Choose Engagement Stone

[leonemoy]

Hello Pricescope!

Firstly what a breath of relief to find this community. I came across these forums just as I was starting to get overwhelmed keeping track of all the factors to consider buying a diamond.

This is my first diamond purchase ever, and it's for an engagement ring so I'd like to get it right.

I'm pretty sure I am comfortable with G/H color range, VS2, and ideally looking for 1.3C+ in the <$10K range.

I feel like I found a good deal on James Allen for this 1.4 carat beauty for just under $10K but I'm afraid I might be missing something. Am I missing something? Does this seem like a good deal for folks?

I think the "Cut" is one thing that really eludes me. I don't think I really have a good grasp for what to look for other than clean arrows (which this seems to have).

Appreciate any tips from the crowd here.

 

[tyty333]

Hi @leonemoy ,

Welcome!

Did you ask for the GIA report on that stone? You need to request it and post it so we can look at the numbers. From the picture I'm guessing
that its not going to fall into the numbers we usually recommend but who knows?

tyty333

 

[leonemoy]

Oh great question! I just asked for it.

 

[Kaycee2018]

I'm no expert, but 63% is deeper than what is recommended here (62.4% is the max, and many prefer no more than 62%). It will face up smaller than a well cut 1.4ct diamond and might have performance issues due to the added depth. Also, the VG symmetry grade seems to be apparent in the wonkiness of the arrows in the video. I'm sure the real experts will be chiming in with advise and suggestions for you.

 

[sledge]

The proportions aren't really that bad. I think the rather small 53 table combined with the steep 35 crown is why the depth is hitting 63%. Look at the crown height -- 16.5%. Further analysis shows the pavilion depth at 62.5%, which appears right for a 40.6 angle. Also, I might add the shallow 40.6 pavilion paired with the steep 35 crown is a nice compliment to one another. The girdle is medium to slightly thick and only carrying 3.5% thickness.

However, it does size up a little smaller as a result.

The very good symmetry does bother me. Before buying this stone, I'd recommend requesting an idealscope (IS) image from JA to confirm light performance, as I suspect it might have some leakage.

FYI, here is the HCA score on the JA stone you found.

 

[sledge]

Here's you an alternate stone to consider.

WF ACA 1.252 G VS2 @ $10,389 wire

Diamond | 1.252 ct G VS2 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4170621

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 1.252 carat G color VS2 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4170621

www.whiteflash.com

I know....the first thing you will say is this is 0.15 carats smaller. True. But look at the spread of the stone. This one measures at 6.92 x 6.97. The other JA 1.40 measured at 7.09 x 7.16. This is roughly a difference of around 0.15mm. When comparing two stones side by side, it normally takes most human eyes about 0.20mm (nearly 1/256th inch) difference before any size can be detected. Even if it's detected, it's insignificant and not memorable.

The upside is a super ideal cut with the right proportions, ideal cut and killer upgrade program. Simply spend $1 more and get full value of your original purchase to apply to your new WF stone. Pretty simple. With JA, you have to spend 2x the original amount to upgrade.

Plus the WF stone has true hearts & arrow (H&A) symmetry and all images to make a solid decision.

 

[sledge]

This particular stone is a little above your $10k budget, but I am pointing it out to show you how having right proportions means a stone sizes up properly for it's carat weight. The JA stone sizes up small as already pointed out.

It appears about 1.30 carats will get you the same spread of stone as the JA 1.40 you found. This WF measures 7.03 x 7.07. See how you can maximize your dollar by looking at spread, proportions, etc and maintaining an ideal cut?

Diamond | 1.32 ct G VS2 Premium Select Round Cut Loose Diamond GIA Certified | 4107653

This fabulous 1.32 carat Round Excellent cut diamond has a clarity grade of VS2 and color grade of G.It is an excellent choice for diamond engagement rings or other fine diamond jewelry. | 4107653

www.whiteflash.com

 

[leonemoy]

Thanks for the feedback, everyone!

@Kaycee2018 I noticed the depth was outside "normal" range but didn't necessarily make the connection to "apparent" size.

I did also find another 1.4 carat diamond also on JA (link). I got the GIA cert as well (attached) and it seems to have much better cut characteristics (wider, and excellent symmetry). Sounds like this might be the more attractive option?

@sledge thanks so much for the other suggestions. The 1.25 is exceptionally clean especially with the other images.

I have trouble knowing how to balance a perfect cut against raw size. In particular, I know that light return/fire is so important to the appearance of a diamond, but with this diamond being 0.2mm wider in diameter--that feels like a big enough difference to be noticeable.

In your opinion is the killer cut worth taking a slightly smaller stone?

 

[sledge]

You kind of jumped from one extreme to another.

This new stone has a 59 table, 60.4 depth, 32 crown, 40.8 pavilion & 75 LGF. The girdle is slightly thick at 4.5%.

When the table and depth both equal 60, this is what we call a 60/60 stone. While it's not a true 60/60 stone, it's not far off the mark. Also, notice how shallow the crown is? At 32, you are only picking up 13% crown height.

These are not angles I'd buy or recommend.

However, shallow depth and shallow crown stones do normally size up better than more ideally cut stones. The downside being the "flat top" will not be very lively and offer more white light return as opposed to fire.

A true 60/60 stone is a unique look that not everyone loves. And if you go that route, you have more favorable proportions than the 32/40.8 combo here. If you decide that is right for you, we can adjust our search for you.

Again, this is out of your budget, but WF has had this premium select 60/60 style for awhile. For $12k, you get a 1.70ct G SI1 and is a good example of what a higher quality 60/60 stone looks like.

Diamond | 1.70 ct G SI1 Premium Select Round Cut Loose Diamond GIA Certified | 3905786

This fabulous 1.70 carat Round Excellent cut diamond has a clarity grade of SI1 and color grade of G.It is an excellent choice for diamond engagement rings or other fine diamond jewelry. | 3905786

www.whiteflash.com

 

[sledge]

And to answer your question, for me and most here, the cut is absolutely the #1 priority. How much a stone sparkles or doesn't sparkle is what people notice the most.

From there, you have more debate, but many would choose size or color as their #2 trait with the opposite likely being their #3. Clarity is usually #4, so long as the stone is eye clean.

That said, each person is unique and values the 4 C's differently. In Asian cultures, getting a D color and VVS+ clarity would be more important than a larger cut stone. In American culture, a larger well cut stone is more important than super high color and clarity.

Having your own preferences isn't an issue, just so long as you realize diamonds are a zero sum game when you have a FIXED budget, meaning that if you move up one attribute than another must come down to balance out the equation.

 

[sledge]

If you want to play around with EXACT measurements, you can plug them in here and get a comparison.

As I mentioned earlier, 0.20mm will be detectable in a side by side comparison. However, if you were showed the stones separately, with a few minutes between them and had no knowledge they were different sizes, it wouldn't be memorable.

Diamond Database - Compare Diamond Shapes and Sizes

Diamond comparison platform where you can compare and evaluate actual diamond sizes on ring and finger. Explore diamond shapes, get buying advice.

www.diamdb.com

 

[tysaval]

I have a question so my diamond has a table of 58% and the depth of 60.8% Is that spread too big would that be considered a 60/60