shape
carat
color
clarity

Help a lost guy out

VoxExMachina

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 12, 2015
Messages
9
Was at the mall and decided to look at e-rings with the gf. Went to Zales and everything was garbage. Salesperson was very pushy and obnoxious. Tried to sell us a bargain 2ctw ring. Center was 4 small princess cut stones made to simulate a larger single stone. She said there's no difference except for price. Clarity was also terrible with SI3 being the best they had.

Jareds was next and the only thing she liked was the LEO RBC diamonds. But even their 1ct were of SI quality and H or I color and close to $10,000 OTD.

Tiffany's was next and of course she liked everything they had there. Princess, cushion, and RBC rings all did look stellar. $20k for a 1ct center was a bit shocking. They did have a near 1ct RBC solitaire that was $15k but the cut wasn't very good as it lacked the brilliance and fire of the others.

So here's where I'm at. Neither me nor my gf are well versed in jewelry. She would like something that is 1ct in size or more. Or rather she'd like a ring that is 7-8mms in size but she doesn't like halos. Well, exceptions were the tiffany embrace and soleste settings. Her other preference is to have a pave band and no yellow gold. I'm going with platinum since it seems more durable and doesn't need to be plated or dipped with rhodium AFAIK.


But beyond a platinum ring everything else is up in the air. For cuts or shapes she like round, asscher, princess, cushion and maybe even an emerald cut. She loved the bright and sparkly tiffany diamonds and even a few Leo diamonds weren't too bad. So now I need some help. I have done some cursory research and cut is the most important of the four Cs and should be the last compromise. For clarity SI1 can still be eye clean depending on the type of inclusion and location. I might stick with VS2. For color it really depends on the individual stone as they can face up whiter. But generally H and above is good.

Regarding certifications it appears only GIA and AGS are worth anything as they tend to be more accurate. Whether a GIA excellent cut is equal to a AGS ideal cut though I'm not sure. It appears not to be the case. There's also ASET and IDEALSCOPE images that show light performance but I have no idea how to read those except lots of red is good. Green is okay and black or white is bad.

Now, given my gf's size preference for 7-8mm I need to find the best bang for the buck. RBC seems to have the biggest face up size. But a 1ct RBC hearts and arrow is 8-10k or more. I can find a 1.2ct princess or emerald for 6k which might face up like a 1ct rbc. So what shape offers the best bang for the buck in a ideal cut or well performing stone?

My budget is $10k and I'm considering adding a halo to get the desired 7-8mm of finger coverage. My gf did like the soleste and embrace so a halo should be fine.
 
The best advice I can give you is to shop online. I have used James Allen three times now and have always had a great experience and came away with a better diamond at a much lower price than if I bought retail. James Allen also lets you return the diamond ring for a full refund if you are not happy.

When it comes to trade-offs, I tend to buy prioritize cut, then clarity, then size and last color. All of the diamonds I bought were "I" color and I can promise you that nobody will every look at them and think they are not colorless (well at least this applies to round brilliants in my mind).

Another way to get more diamond for your money is to consider diamonds with blue fluoresence. They seem to be discounted compared to non fluoresent diamonds. Personally I would pay more for them because they can give a diamond an even whiter look. My wifes I color diamond looks very white and the only way anyone can tell that it is a blue fluoresent is if it is under a black light. There is apparently a small risk that flueresent diamonds can appear hazy or milky under certain UV lights. This is something that you can mitigate by having a gemologist look at it before you buy.

Something else I learned after many hours looking for a diamond (especially when buying on-line) is that not all GIA rated excellent cuts are the same. Some perform much better than others. To help you find the best possible options, make sure you use the Holloway Cut Advisor to rule out diamonds that can be rejected simply based on their cut proportions. https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca Keep in mind that this tool will only help you eliminate poorly performing diamonds. An idealscope image will further help you narrow down your choices.

Good luck!
 
Here is a just barely 7mm AGS000 in your budget H/VS1
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.31-carat-h-color-vs1-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-282988

Here is a princess AGS000 stone in your budget...
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/1.52-carat-h-color-vs2-clarity-sku-464574
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/1.52-carat-h-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-481119 another one

You can use www.diamdb.com to compare the different sizes and how they will look on her finger.

I'm off to school...I'll post more later!
 
Here is an emerald...I'm not that good with emeralds so other opinions are a must.
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/1.51-carat-f-color-vs1-clarity-sku-516104

Couldnt find much in the way of cushions...
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/1.61-carat-h-color-vs2-clarity-sku-459473


Pears and marquise are usually the best bang for your buck but if she doesnt like those then rounds are probably your
next best choice.

Edit - is the $10k for the stone only or for the stone and setting?
 
The HCA tool is interesting. I tried a couple GIA 3x and one had a 1.8 score while the others had 2.7 and 3.3. So it appears GIA's 3x isn't of much use. AGS000 stones were all under 2.0 so that seems to be a more accurate rating. Let's say a stone has a 1.1 HCA score but isn't of the hearts and arrows design. Will it still perform(bright and sparkly) well but just won't have the hearts and arrows patterns?

MY budget would ideally be $10k for stone and setting. But I understand that diamonds aren't priced in a linear fashion to carat size. Eg. a .90ct stone is only 10% smaller but can be 20% cheaper in price. But depending on cut it can be similar in size. So if absolutely necessary I can push the budget to $10k for just the stone.

I'm thinking of going with a halo as I can go under 1ct in weight and still achieved the 7-8mm of finger coverage. It seems a princess cut faces up quite small and a 1.5ct ideal princess is still smaller than an ideal cut 1ct RBC and price is more. I might look into pear shape as she did like the tiffany with a halo though the center stone was yellow.

For shapes or cuts I'm leaning towards RBC and cushion. I'll have to look at pears though. All these look good in halos too IMO. With the RBC and cushion I also need to decide upon OEC or a modern brilliant cut.
 
VoxExMachina|1431536729|3876112 said:
The HCA tool is interesting. I tried a couple GIA 3x and one had a 1.8 score while the others had 2.7 and 3.3. So it appears GIA's 3x isn't of much use. AGS000 stones were all under 2.0 so that seems to be a more accurate rating. Let's say a stone has a 1.1 HCA score but isn't of the hearts and arrows design. Will it still perform(bright and sparkly) well but just won't have the hearts and arrows patterns?

MY budget would ideally be $10k for stone and setting. But I understand that diamonds aren't priced in a linear fashion to carat size. Eg. a .90ct stone is only 10% smaller but can be 20% cheaper in price. But depending on cut it can be similar in size. So if absolutely necessary I can push the budget to $10k for just the stone.

I'm thinking of going with a halo as I can go under 1ct in weight and still achieved the 7-8mm of finger coverage. It seems a princess cut faces up quite small and a 1.5ct ideal princess is still smaller than an ideal cut 1ct RBC and price is more. I might look into pear shape as she did like the tiffany with a halo though the center stone was yellow.

For shapes or cuts I'm leaning towards RBC and cushion. I'll have to look at pears though. All these look good in halos too IMO. With the RBC and cushion I also need to decide upon OEC or a modern brilliant cut.

From what I understand, a non hearts and arrows diamond can perform as well or even better than a hearts and arrows. Basically, the hearts and arrows is a guarantee of cut standards but not optical performance. Without seeing the diamonds in person, the ideal scope and ASSET tests should be carried out to confirm optical performance. Also, it seems that for hearts and arrows you pay a much higher premium than the additional performance warrants...
 
Plus a lot of cuts that score well on the HCA may not be an H&A stone but will still exhibit arrows and maybe slightly misaligned hearts
but no one will see those once the stone is set.
 
I'd like the shapes of the halo to correspond to the shape of the diamond.

I might lean towards the cushion cut. I like the patterning of that cushion but it has VG polish and only Good symmetry. The girdle is also extremely thin so I'm not sure if that's a cause for concern. Also says the depth is 77.3% which is too deep and will cause it to face up smaller than it should for it's size. So I'm not sure if this would be considered a poorly cut diamond even though it looks really good with no crushed ice effect.
 
VoxExMachina|1431480601|3875825 said:
So here's where I'm at. Neither me nor my gf are well versed in jewelry.

I saw this statement, and thought - OK- excellent, you will find great help.

Then I saw this:

I have done some cursory research and cut is the most important of the four Cs and should be the last compromise. For clarity SI1 can still be eye clean depending on the type of inclusion and location. I might stick with VS2. For color it really depends on the individual stone as they can face up whiter. But generally H and above is good.

Regarding certifications it appears only GIA and AGS are worth anything as they tend to be more accurate. Whether a GIA excellent cut is equal to a AGS ideal cut though I'm not sure. It appears not to be the case. There's also ASET and IDEALSCOPE images that show light performance but I have no idea how to read those except lots of red is good. Green is okay and black or white is bad.

Which made me think, "you - sir - underestimate yourself!"

You are way ahead of the average shopper! Enjoy this process.
 
I'm thinking I might stick with a RBC since it appears to be easier to choose a great one. There's various tools that make it easier to weed out bad ones. With a Cushion cut I might have to stick to signature lines but even these vary. I know ASET and Idealscope go a long way to determine performance but not every vendor has them. In fact most don't and a lot of inventory is virtual so they aren't available.


Since I'm most likely going with a halo design I wonder if I should stick with a brilliant cut as opposed to the euro cuts. The smaller intense flashes of brilliant cuts might integrate with the small melee diamonds and could help to make it look like one larger stone. Then again the small melees and their small flashes might help accentuate the broader flashes of color of a GoG OEC cut diamond. I just don't know since I'm a novice.


Also, I don't really know how to pick out a good cushion.

For instance is this a poor cut since there's too much black/white contrast when face up?
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/1.01-carat-g-color-vs2-clarity-sku-329059

And I like the center geometric pattern of this one. But its light performance is probably poor as a result. And I'm viewing all these at 20x so it skews my judgement. I probably won't see the inclusions in some of the other stones they have. And the center black geo pattern of this stone will probably just look like a black mess when viewed on the finger at a distance of 1-2 feet or more?
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/1.05-carat-i-color-vvs1-clarity-sku-369830


Lastly, I'd also like to thank everyone for their input. This is a great community with very welcoming and friendly members. I'm sure these questions have all been asked frequently before. Yet you all offer very kind assistance which I thank you for.
 
It is easier to find a good round cut as you can just about go by specs and then confirm with an idealscope and ASET. A good cushion cut is difficult and you might want to stick with Signature lines even though you'll pay a premium. Good Old Gold seems to know how to pick a nice cushion in various cuts so maybe try contacting them.

As for the ones you posted the first one might be okay. Would need ASET or Idealscope to determine it's performance. The second one might have a cool pattern in the middle but you won't really see it and the table looks like it might leak light.
 
GET 3 FREE HCA RESULTS JOIN THE FORUM. ASK FOR HELP
Top