Help a Diamond Clueless

[TimWA]

I''ve been trying to figure out diamonds for the last 2 weeks and stumbled on these forums, which have some good information. Basically I would like to spend somewhere from 6,000-7,000 on a diamond for a soltaire ring. Can I get a decent diamond for that price that is 1 to 1.25 carats?

Is it better to buy in a store or buy the diamond online?
Do you come out and say to a sales associate how much you are looking to spend?
Do you haggle with them on pricing?
For that diamond budget what are some of the 4 c''s should I be looking at the diamond having?

Thanks for your time and answers in advanced, because I am completely confused. Funny thing is I can power shop electronic gear because I know all about it, with Diamonds it seems the more research I do, the more confused I get...

Oh and also if anyone lives in Minneapolis and knows some reputable jewelers...

Thanks
Tim

 

[Lorelei]

Hi Tim and welcome

You have a nice budget and should find a great diamond for that money. I and many others prefer to buy online, the process is generally quite easy. I tend to be straightforward with budget, it makes it less complicated and saves the vendor showing me diamonds that are out of my pricerange. Personally I don't haggle, I don't know if it is the accepted thing with online purchases, but I know one PSer did it and got a little money off.

With the 4 C's you definitely want to make cut your most important, this is what gives the diamond it's beauty, it isn't any good buying a high colour and clarity diamond with a poor cut as it will look dull and glasslike. Study up on the cut tutorials under knowledge at the top of the page and learn the Ideal proportions which will get you the best looking diamond

For clarity you can save in going for an SI1 to S12 clarity, many of these diamonds are very eyeclean and a vendor will be honest with you if not, but you can save a lot of money and still have a fab stone in these clarities. The VS or VVS clarities are an option of course if a high clarity is important to you , but you will pay more and could find a very clean SI for far less.

Colour is personal, depends if you want to pay the premium for an icy white D or E for example or shoot for a good middle ground such as a G or H colour which will still look very white. Some prefer a little warmth in their diamonds and many I J's or K's are seen here and look fabulously white face up, in certain lights there may be a tiny hint of warmth from the pavillion( the side of the diamond) but it is a matter of preference.

Hope this helps!

 

[belle]

hey tim!

welcome to ps, glad you found us!

you can get a really well cut stone in the 1ct. range for your budget. no matter how much you are looking to spend, your main focus (if you want a sparkly diamond) should be cut. none of the other ''c''s will have an impact on how the diamond performs. in a well cut stone you can go with lower color/clarity (which is always nice on the budget) and still have an amazing rock. i have shopped at local stores and found that the quality and prices can not be met with what i can get online. a great way to see the offerings from online vendors is to use the ''pricescope your diamond'' search tool at the top of the page. to make things easier, click on the ''in-house'' button to limit the stones and look for those that are actually stocked. if you find something you like, you can always post the information here and we can offer some advice. best of luck! i hope you find something good!

 

[phoenixgirl]

If you do a search by cut you''ll find quite a few options in that range.

I would recommend an ideal cut, color of F to I (I would go as low as J, but since Tiffany''s doesn''t sell lower than I some people have a negative association with it), clarity of VS2 or SI1 (you can find an eye-clean SI2 as well, but it might take some searching -- I don''t recommend above VS1 because you''re paying for something you can''t see).

Some ideas:

1.15 G SI1 H&A for $6769 (the lower price is what comes up when you search via this site -- it''s a discount for PS members)

1.21 I VS2 H&A for $6580

1.20 H SI1 H&A for $6189

1.06 G VS1 H&A for $7040

1.11 D SI2 H&A for $6582

 

[recran]

Take your girl shopping and figure out what she likes. If she loves rounds and hates princesses, wouldn''t it be awful to get her a princess shaped diamond? From shopping with her, figure out (1) shape of diamond she prefers, (2) setting styles she favors, and (3) whether you or she is sensitive to color.

For your budget, you can get a terrific diamond! I just bought a 1.51 carat Expert Selection J/SI1 from WhiteFlash for about $7,200 (great arrows and light return). Awesome deal! It might be worth it to you/her to go down in color to get a bigger diamond.

I prefer purchasing online so you know more about what you''re getting. Sure, you can "see" the diamonds in the stores, but you won''t be able to compare it to lots of other diamonds or if it''s a real performer (unless you pay extra for a Leo or AGS0 or H&A or whatever). The B&M folks generally are clueless about cut, which is to be expected since most don''t have the tools or measurements to make a fair determination of whether a rock is well cut. I had a good time figuring out size and shape and settings in B&M stores, but they just really let me down when it came to cut. They wanted a real premium that''s way more than the online dealers charge.

Oh, your questions:
IMO, it''s far better to purchase online (more information on what you''re buying, less money for higher quality). WhiteFlash was my personal favorite. GoodOldGold and JamesAllen were also contenders with excellent information.
You can tell the sales associates how much you''re willing to spend and probably should so they won''t show you things that are out of your budget.
I have not had any luck on haggling.
4Cs: Cut is the most important.

 

[TimWA]

What are your guys thoughts on this one?

http://www.dirtcheapdiamonds.com/diamond_detail.cfm?did=9755488

Would you rather lose some quality to get something close to 1.25 carats?

 

[Shay37]

Date: 12/5/2005 2:33:01 PM
Author: TimWA
What are your guys thoughts on this one?

http://www.dirtcheapdiamonds.com/diamond_detail.cfm?did=9755488

Would you rather lose some quality to get something close to 1.25 carats?

I would drop the clarity a bit. A VS2 should be eyeclean. An SI1 can definitely be eyeclean. Just look for one in your budget that fits your size and ask the dealer if it''s eyeclean. Go with a good vendor of course. DCD will be glad to help you find one that is eyeclean. If you call them, give them your budget and ask for a stone that meets your criteria that is eyeclean.

shay

 

[Gonzodogg]

Date: 12/5/2005 2:33:01 PM
Author: TimWA
What are your guys thoughts on this one?

http://www.dirtcheapdiamonds.com/diamond_detail.cfm?did=9755488

Would you rather lose some quality to get something close to 1.25 carats?

That stone looks amazing. You should know that you are paying more for something that you will never see in the VS1 clarity. If you can find something similar in an eye clean SI1 you would save a bunch and be able to go a bit bigger.
Try this one... (and keep in mind, WF gives a PS discount)
http://www.whiteflash.com/round_ideal_cut/Round-Ideal-Cut-cut-diamond-2045489.htm#

good luck

 

[TimWA]

Can people tell a difference between an F and a H color ? Will H look worse in a platnum setting?

I went to a local jeweler last night. Here are the specs for the one that they had somewhat meeting my requirements.

Color F
Carat 1.11
SI2
Cut Ideal, 0,0,0
White Light High
Colored Light Very High
Scintilliation High
Table 56
Depth 60.5
Crown Angle 34.7
Crown Height? (CH) 15.1
Pavillion Angle 40.5
Pavillion Height? (PH) 42.6

Price was 7010, the stone had 2 inclusions on the top diagram in the AGS Cert, which I swear I could see one in the 6:00 location, the other was around 10-11:00, couldn''t really see that one. The jeweler says those can be covered up with prongs. The stone had 1 long inclusion in the lower diagram in the middle of the stone, which she played off has its on the bottom not visible to the top. What are you thoughts on this diamond? The salesperson claimed buying a diamond online will never tell you the the brilliance of a diamond like the gemex scope? they have.

Should I be able to find something similiar in a SI1 cheaper or closer to the same price online, avoid the local sales tax and the SI2? Can you tell the brillance online?

 

[Lorelei]

It would be difficult to tell an F from an H IMO unless you were comparing the two diamonds side by side and even then some might not be able to tell, especially in a round. This diamond could be a decent performer but you don't seem over keen? I wouldn't pay too much attention to the salesperson, she wants to sell the diamond and she might try to keep your custom by putting you off online purchasing. The inclusions seem to bug you, maybe they are prongable , but I have seen many cleaner S12's including one of mine by the sound of it. Buying online can require a leap of faith, but most vendors are true experts and have the customer's interests at heart and can keep the prices lower. Analysing the brilliance online is done in a way by the vendor providing Sarin reports or Brilliancesope images etc which will help, but the main judge is your own eyes and a good vendor will be able to advise you on the diamond's performance. Bear in mind vendors are in the business of selling diamonds and try their best to make the customer happy, it benefits no one to have diamonds being shipped back and forth so they will be honest with you. If you are not happy with the clarity of this one keep looking, there are too many diamonds out there to settle. What about the diamond Gonzodogg posted from Whiteflash? That could be an incredible diamond have you taken a look at that one? The one you posted earlier has possibilities too, if you want to go higher in clarity. I wouldn't hesitate to set an H in platinum to answer your question.

 

[belle]

Date: 12/6/2005 9:28:31 AM
Author: TimWA
Can people tell a difference between an F and a H color ? Will H look worse in a platnum setting?

face up in most lighting conditions? no.
from the side and in some lighting conditions? maybe. it depends on the person. everyone perceives color differently.
i will say that i think you would be amazed at how good a well cut ''h'' can look to even the most discriminating eye.

Date: 12/6/2005 9:28:31 AM
Author: TimWA
I went to a local jeweler last night. Here are the specs for the one that they had somewhat meeting my requirements.

Color F
Carat 1.11
SI2
Cut Ideal, 0,0,0
White Light High
Colored Light Very High
Scintilliation High
Table 56
Depth 60.5
Crown Angle 34.7
Crown Height? (CH) 15.1
Pavillion Angle 40.5
Pavillion Height? (PH) 42.6

this would not make ags0 under their new grading standards.
the 40.5 pavilion angle is pushing the limits for me.

Date: 12/6/2005 9:28:31 AM
Author: TimWA

Price was 7010, the stone had 2 inclusions on the top diagram in the AGS Cert, which I swear I could see one in the 6:00 location, the other was around 10-11:00, couldn''t really see that one. The jeweler says those can be covered up with prongs. The stone had 1 long inclusion in the lower diagram in the middle of the stone, which she played off has its on the bottom not visible to the top. What are you thoughts on this diamond?

it is true that inclusions can be covered with prongs depending on the location. i really don''t think inclusions are all bad, it just depends on your comfort level.

Date: 12/6/2005 9:28:31 AM
Author: TimWA
The salesperson claimed buying a diamond online will never tell you the the brilliance of a diamond like the gemex scope? they have.

of course she did!

you do not need a machine (that does not have proven and consistent results btw) to tell you how brilliant your stone will be.

Date: 12/6/2005 9:28:31 AM
Author: TimWA
Should I be able to find something similiar in a SI1 cheaper or closer to the same price online, avoid the local sales tax and the SI2?

yes. don''t shy away from si2 stones entirely though. there are amazing ''eye-clean'' si2 stones out there. you can''t tell what inclusions will like like from a plot, so you will have to find a vendor that you trust to be honest with you regarding inclusions.
here is an article about definitions of ''eye-clean''