hearts on fire only cut that shows full rainbow of colors?

[Rhino]

Date: 6/17/2009 10:17:50 PM
Author: sarap333

Date: 6/17/2009 8:00:46 PM
Author: Rhino
Hey sarap,

Date: 6/17/2009 12:58:49 PM

Author: sarap333

Thanks, Rhino, That certainly comports with what I see when I look at my diamond (ideal cut). I certainly haven''t noticed any ''missing'' colors -- LOL!

Haha... only the Creator of those colors could determine what would be there and present. Something completely out of the control of man. The only amount of control he left us in that department was how much and the type of reflections we''d observe if we did the job right.

Date: 6/17/2009 12:58:49 PM

Author: sarap333


The other thing he did that bugged me is that after he showed me a few HOF under the viewer, he asked to see my diamond under the viewer. I gave it to him (I didn''t tell him, and he didn''t ask, that it''s an ideal cut stone). You should have seen the look on his face when he saw the clear-as-a-bell arrows in the viewer! But did he say anything -- no, he just continued his pitch on how I should upgrade to an HOF. He did ask me where I got my stone, and I lied and said ''Japan,'' and then he said, I''ll bet if I put this under a microscope, I wouldn''t see a speck of carbon! What a thing to say to a potential customer - is that supposed to be some sort of a reverse compliment?

I would have loved to see his face. Don''t ya wish you had a hidden camera during these moments? (hrm... now you got me thinking

) Sometimes you gotta wonder ... did he do this all on his own (perhaps ignorantly) or was he actually trained to say this? And yea ... is this guy looking to gain a client or lose one?!?!?!? Unreal.

Date: 6/17/2009 12:58:49 PM

Author: sarap333


And is a high-end store -- they carry Scott Kay, Tacori, Christian Bauer, HOF, Steven Kretchmer (spell) Simon G., etc., etc.


Anyway, it bugs me that he''s giving out incorrect information, especially when he''d just told me that he spent all these hours getting ''trained'' to sell HOF! If I was feeling particularly grumpy today, I would send HOF an e-mail and let them know that they''ve got a sales associate that needs to be retrained. The diamonds are lovely (if you can afford them) so they don''t need his kind of help!


I ordered my diamond and setting online (anniversary upgrade), and it is beautiful -- perfect. But I was thinking that I''d like to buy my new wedding band locally (and I was seriously considering a $1500 HOF 18kt. .30 ctw. 3/4-eternity band at this store) so that I wouldn''t have to deal with sizing issues and so that I could develop a relationship with a local jeweler, but after this, I think I''ll stick with my trusted online vendors.


Thanks for letting me vent! To any sales associates out there who might be reading this, please don''t assume your customer is an idiot!

Always best to give an honest ''I don''t know'' instead of spouting off misinformation. Salespeople in the retail world would do themselves a service (and the companies they work for) if they *listened* to consumers and especially those who report on the Internet. Appreciate the input. Don''t give up on retailer''s though who have bricks and mortar jewelry stores! I happen to be one of them!!!


Kind regards,

Thanks, Rhino, for your comments. I''d say there are alot of people in the diamond business who do know how to ''do the job right,'' who take what creation offers and maximize it''s beauty. And that''s why I appreciate this forum -- you hold each other to high standards!

I would have loved to have a camera to capture this guy''s face -- now you''re giving me ideas - ''60 Minutes'' expose, here we come!

I won''t give up on B&M stores. I''ve had some fine custom work done in the past by local jewelers who educate and guide their clients rather than trying to pull a fast one! If I lived on the east coast, I''d love to visit you (and see that 1.74 O IF in person!). IMO, one great thing about Pricescope vendors is that many of them do maintain a B&M store (like you, and Wink, and many others that I see referenced on PS). May I say that I believe all of you are on the cutting edge of diamond technology, marketing, and sales.

Thanks sarap.

To my knowledge, of the regular vendors who post here only Todd & myself have actual bricks and mortar stores to my knowledge unless I''m mistaken about Wink. If I am I am sure he''ll correct me.

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 6/17/2009 10:23:41 PM
Author: Rhino

Date: 6/17/2009 10:17:50 PM

Author: sarap333

Date: 6/17/2009 8:00:46 PM

Author: Rhino

Hey sarap,

Date: 6/17/2009 12:58:49 PM


Author: sarap333


Thanks, Rhino, That certainly comports with what I see when I look at my diamond (ideal cut). I certainly haven''t noticed any ''missing'' colors -- LOL!

Haha... only the Creator of those colors could determine what would be there and present. Something completely out of the control of man. The only amount of control he left us in that department was how much and the type of reflections we''d observe if we did the job right.

Date: 6/17/2009 12:58:49 PM


Author: sarap333



The other thing he did that bugged me is that after he showed me a few HOF under the viewer, he asked to see my diamond under the viewer. I gave it to him (I didn''t tell him, and he didn''t ask, that it''s an ideal cut stone). You should have seen the look on his face when he saw the clear-as-a-bell arrows in the viewer! But did he say anything -- no, he just continued his pitch on how I should upgrade to an HOF. He did ask me where I got my stone, and I lied and said ''Japan,'' and then he said, I''ll bet if I put this under a microscope, I wouldn''t see a speck of carbon! What a thing to say to a potential customer - is that supposed to be some sort of a reverse compliment?

I would have loved to see his face. Don''t ya wish you had a hidden camera during these moments? (hrm... now you got me thinking

) Sometimes you gotta wonder ... did he do this all on his own (perhaps ignorantly) or was he actually trained to say this? And yea ... is this guy looking to gain a client or lose one?!?!?!? Unreal.

Date: 6/17/2009 12:58:49 PM


Author: sarap333



And is a high-end store -- they carry Scott Kay, Tacori, Christian Bauer, HOF, Steven Kretchmer (spell) Simon G., etc., etc.



Anyway, it bugs me that he''s giving out incorrect information, especially when he''d just told me that he spent all these hours getting ''trained'' to sell HOF! If I was feeling particularly grumpy today, I would send HOF an e-mail and let them know that they''ve got a sales associate that needs to be retrained. The diamonds are lovely (if you can afford them) so they don''t need his kind of help!



I ordered my diamond and setting online (anniversary upgrade), and it is beautiful -- perfect. But I was thinking that I''d like to buy my new wedding band locally (and I was seriously considering a $1500 HOF 18kt. .30 ctw. 3/4-eternity band at this store) so that I wouldn''t have to deal with sizing issues and so that I could develop a relationship with a local jeweler, but after this, I think I''ll stick with my trusted online vendors.



Thanks for letting me vent! To any sales associates out there who might be reading this, please don''t assume your customer is an idiot!

Always best to give an honest ''I don''t know'' instead of spouting off misinformation. Salespeople in the retail world would do themselves a service (and the companies they work for) if they *listened* to consumers and especially those who report on the Internet. Appreciate the input. Don''t give up on retailer''s though who have bricks and mortar jewelry stores! I happen to be one of them!!!



Kind regards,

Thanks, Rhino, for your comments. I''d say there are alot of people in the diamond business who do know how to ''do the job right,'' who take what creation offers and maximize it''s beauty. And that''s why I appreciate this forum -- you hold each other to high standards!


I would have loved to have a camera to capture this guy''s face -- now you''re giving me ideas - ''60 Minutes'' expose, here we come!


I won''t give up on B&M stores. I''ve had some fine custom work done in the past by local jewelers who educate and guide their clients rather than trying to pull a fast one! If I lived on the east coast, I''d love to visit you (and see that 1.74 O IF in person!). IMO, one great thing about Pricescope vendors is that many of them do maintain a B&M store (like you, and Wink, and many others that I see referenced on PS). May I say that I believe all of you are on the cutting edge of diamond technology, marketing, and sales.

Thanks sarap.

To my knowledge, of the regular vendors who post here only Todd & myself have actual bricks and mortar stores to my knowledge unless I''m mistaken about Wink. If I am I am sure he''ll correct me.

Not so much a correction but a half correction.

I have a bricks and mortar office on the second floor above ground of a downtown office building. Well, okay, a very small office with only three floors, one of which is in the basement and it is on the edge of town. We have 70,000 cars a day drive by our location, and maybe once a year or once every 18 months someone walks in without knowing who we are.

We do virtually no advertising in our local market, depending rather on referrals and on our internet business which has grown now to be well more than 50% of our business.

Still we do significant B&M business on a by appointment basis so it is partially true that I am a B&M business, but I am an unusually one!

Wink

 

[strmrdr]

In theory it is possible to design a diamond for one prominent color of fire.
In reality not even Paul can cut them tight enough to do it in real life to a large extent.
Red is the hardest to get a lot of in a RB and you can destroy brightness playing this game.
Blue and yellow does seem to be the most dominate in near tolk like diamonds a lot of the time.
Step cuts tend towards green and yellow more than blue and yellow and sometimes show more reds than RB's

 

[Dreamer_D]

Wowza SaraP! That is right up there with the sales person who told me that white gold was just Rhodium plated yellow gold

I said, "ummm no it isn't" And she just said, "ok!" to shut me up. I debated enlightening her but then opted to go get a smoothie instead.

ETA Storm, those are purdy purdy pictures

 

[3Rocks]

My Infinity diamond always surprise me with its red flashes. This happen often when I''m driving home at 5.30pm from downtown LA. I also see lots of green, yellow, blue, purple, etc. Most surprising ones are those colors that comes out at night when we were taking our usual walk after dinner. My FI use to hate that walk. Now he loves it because he said thats when the stones come alive. I still giggle over his enthusiasm but am happy that he is happy.

 

[Rhino]

Date: 6/17/2009 11:09:31 PM
Author: strmrdr
In theory it is possible to design a diamond for one prominent color of fire.

In reality not even Paul can cut them tight enough to do it in real life to a large extent.

Red is the hardest to get a lot of in a RB and you can destroy brightness playing this game.

Blue and yellow does seem to be the most dominate in near tolk like diamonds a lot of the time.

Step cuts tend towards green and yellow more than blue and yellow and sometimes show more reds than RB''s

Question is what proportion sets combined with unheard of precision would produce more reds? I have some here that are the tightest on the planet.

 

[Rhino]

Thanks for that clarification Wink.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 6/17/2009 11:55:37 PM
Author: Rhino
Question is what proportion sets combined with unheard of precision would produce more reds? I have some here that are the tightest on the planet.

I have that info someplace if I cant find it I can recreate it but it will take a while.

 

[Lula]

Date: 6/17/2009 11:09:31 PM
Author: strmrdr
In theory it is possible to design a diamond for one prominent color of fire.

In reality not even Paul can cut them tight enough to do it in real life to a large extent.

Red is the hardest to get a lot of in a RB and you can destroy brightness playing this game.

Blue and yellow does seem to be the most dominate in near tolk like diamonds a lot of the time.

Step cuts tend towards green and yellow more than blue and yellow and sometimes show more reds than RB''s

Interesting comments, Storm. I do notice that any red flashes I observe "seem" to be coming from the outer edge of the diamond rather than the center. I put "seem" in quotes because it''s hard to capture with my eye the exact location of the fire because either I''m moving or the light source is moving when it happens. Would there be a reason for this?

I have to be careful driving-while-observing-diamond because the flashes I see in the car are frequent, large, and very colorful (as several other posters have mentioned).

I also notice that the time of day makes a difference, too, e.g., early morning sun filtering into my living room gives my diamond almost a silvery, pastel look. In mid-day sun, I seem to get more greens and oranges. And there does seem to be a lot of blue and every shade of yellow in any light. It does seem that people looking at my diamond from the side get the better light show since the diamond is tipped toward their eyes and away from mine -- that''s one disadvantage to wearing a diamond, I guess.

 

[Rockit]

Thank you oldminer. I understood what the article said. I''m still tossing around the significance of what it says.

Strmrdr, thank you for the pics! Sooooooo, are you agreeing with my B&M owner''s statement... red fire (in RBs) is most difficult to achieve? If so, is it because the cutter walks a fine line between fiery red and blah stone?

I''m sorry everyone, sarap333, this topic fascinates me. I promise, no more threadjack...

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 6/18/2009 12:05:54 AM
Author: Rockit
Thank you oldminer. I understood what the article said. I'm still tossing around the significance of what it says.


Strmrdr, thank you for the pics! Sooooooo, are you agreeing with my B&M owner's statement... red fire (in RBs) is most difficult to achieve? If so, is it because the cutter walks a fine line between fiery red and blah stone?


I'm sorry everyone, sarap333, this topic fascinates me. I promise, no more threadjack...

no, what I am saying is that picking the color of fire is impossible to achieve in the real world.
Take 2 of those hof stones and place them side by side in fire producing lighting and they will not have identical fire.

 

[Lula]

No worries, Rockit, you''re not thread-jacking at all. One reason (besides needing to vent) that I posted my question about rainbow colors is that I knew our resident light return experts would give me great explanations about why the sales person was wrong. Now, I don''t know if I will be so bold as Todd in my dealings with ignorant sales staff but I do like having knowledge on my side when I''m considering purchasing expensive jewelry, so I don''t get swayed by the goofy stuff SA''s come up with.

 

[Lula]

Date: 6/18/2009 12:14:55 AM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 6/18/2009 12:05:54 AM

Author: Rockit

Thank you oldminer. I understood what the article said. I''m still tossing around the significance of what it says.



Strmrdr, thank you for the pics! Sooooooo, are you agreeing with my B&M owner''s statement... red fire (in RBs) is most difficult to achieve? If so, is it because the cutter walks a fine line between fiery red and blah stone?



I''m sorry everyone, sarap333, this topic fascinates me. I promise, no more threadjack...

no, what I am saying is that picking the color of fire is impossible to achieve in the real world.

Take 2 of those hof stones and place them side by side in fire producing lighting and they will not have identical fire.

This is really interesting -- the SA showed me two HOF side-by-side (both around .75 ct.) and he looked at me like I was nuts when I told him I thought one stone looked more lively and colorful than the other! But I could see a difference.

 

[strmrdr]

60%t 41.02P 36.46C 64.1 lfd%

woops forgot image...

 

[strmrdr]

60%t 41.02P 36.46C 64.1 lfd%

 

[strmrdr]

same except 41.00 pavilion

 

[glitterata]

Karl, there''s something I don''t get. (Well, there are a LOT of things I don''t get--but one in particular tonight.)

Those pictures you''re showing us only show the diamond face up, with the light in one particular position, right? But in real life the diamond moves around and the light moves around, so even if that one shot shows a lot of one particular color, will it also show more of that color from different positions & as the light moves?

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 6/18/2009 1:42:37 AM
Author: glitterata
Karl, there's something I don't get. (Well, there are a LOT of things I don't get--but one in particular tonight.)


Those pictures you're showing us only show the diamond face up, with the light in one particular position, right? But in real life the diamond moves around and the light moves around, so even if that one shot shows a lot of one particular color, will it also show more of that color from different positions & as the light moves?

The lighting is multiple small light sources from many directions.
In more normal lighting not all the VF would light off at once but the general trend of more of one color should remain as you tilt it thru the face up position.
You would have to be looking for it to notice it.
Red is hard.

 

[Lula]

So if I''m understanding these last two graphics, Storm, a decrease of only .02 in the pav. angle will result in a fairly substantial change in fire? The second graphic looks paler to me, and contains much more yellow. Is that what everyone else is seeing?

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 6/18/2009 8:22:50 AM
Author: sarap333
So if I'm understanding these last two graphics, Storm, a decrease of only .02 in the pav. angle will result in a fairly substantial change in fire? The second graphic looks paler to me, and contains much more yellow. Is that what everyone else is seeing?

changes the color of the fire yes.
The intensity cant be judge by the images.
The yellow fire could be more intense or maybe not.

I am showing that it is possible in theory to tune the color of the fire it don't work that way with real diamonds.
At least not with the best of the current cutting tech.

What I was researching was if it would be possible to tune the color of fire in a colored diamond to match the body color and improve the color of the diamond in some lighting.
The answer is in the real world no, in diamcalc/theory yes.

 

[Tuckins1]

My stone is a non-branded princess cut stone, and it has MAD CRAZY FIRE of ALL colors!!!!! That sales person was full of it....

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 6/17/2009 11:23:35 PM
Author: dreamer_dachsie
Wowza SaraP! That is right up there with the sales person who told me that white gold was just Rhodium plated yellow gold

I said, ''ummm no it isn''t'' And she just said, ''ok!'' to shut me up. I debated enlightening her but then opted to go get a smoothie instead.


ETA Storm, those are purdy purdy pictures

Nup, I can beat both of them. How about the SA at a *very* hoighty-toity store who told me when asked why they charge a premium for their white gold over yellow gold pieces - because the white gold is found deeper under the ground and so costs more to mine.......
.......

 

[stone-cold11]

Date: 6/18/2009 9:51:23 AM
Author: arjunajane

Date: 6/17/2009 11:23:35 PM

Author: dreamer_dachsie

Wowza SaraP! That is right up there with the sales person who told me that white gold was just Rhodium plated yellow gold

I said, ''ummm no it isn''t'' And she just said, ''ok!'' to shut me up. I debated enlightening her but then opted to go get a smoothie instead.

ETA Storm, those are purdy purdy pictures

Nup, I can beat both of them. How about the SA at a *very* hoighty-toity store who told me when asked why they charge a premium for their white gold over yellow gold pieces - because the white gold is found deeper under the ground and so costs more to mine.......

.......

nice one.

 

[Rockit]

Strmrdr, the idea to adapt fire to increase perception of one particular color is intriguing. I wish it WOULD work in reality!

So, back to the basics: really, since the make-up of each diamond rough is uniquely different, each cut stone – no matter how similarly or precisely cut – WILL always be unique. Therefore, the colors of fire in any given diamond MAY have something to do with the caliber of cut, however, if the properties aren''t in the rough to begin with, then, all a cutter''s skill may be moot... Can we ask the question, then, are there HOF stones that are cut and rejected because they don''t cut the mustard, so to speak?

Regardless, by the same token, sarap, no pair – or collection – of similarly cut stones, branded, HOF, or otherwise, will EVER be a total match (a fact that we already knew). This is when we look to the skill of a master setter. *SIGH* What is WRONG with your HOF sales guy? Doesn''t he know that Mother Nature always wins? Imagine all the people out there marching around with "exactly matching" HOF pieces.

 

[glitterata]

So interesting!

My Infinity does seem to have more blues and yellows. My OEC has tons of red and orange (as well as everything else), though.

 

[John P]

Date: 6/17/2009 8:00:46 PM
Author: Rhino

Don''t give up on retailer''s though who have bricks and mortar jewelry stores! I happen to be one of them!!!

Double ditto the Rhinoceros on that.

Remember that Rhino, Wink & Todd were retailers in traditional bricks & mortar operations years before they became the "internet guys..." If memory serves, Winfield''s and GOG opened their doors way back in 1979-80! So those guys, specifically, were giving great answers and advice to clients as B&M retailers long before the ''net phenom.

I''d also volunteer that a lot of "good guys" are out there. Part of my job is conducting staff education in the B&M stores carrying our diamonds and I''m always jazzed by the energy and desire to learn I encounter. Eventually I imagine those unwilling to learn will be unable to sell... Consumers are not becoming less educated.

...In other news, the white gold comment was a jaw dropper. Wow.

 

[Rockit]

I forgot to respond to the WG comment. Here: ... Oh, wait... sorry. There is no hysterically laughing smiley available to post!

 

[Lula]

Thanks for all the great comments everyone! And Storm, thanks again for the *kewl* (I think I should put the registered trademark character after that phrase) graphics.

The white gold vs. yellow gold story wins the award, I think -- if we had an award for silly SA statements -- maybe a hall of shame!

Don''t worry, John, I will not give up on B&M stores; I think of Jonathan and Wink and Brian Gavin and Todd and the other vendors on PS as "new age stores" -- all the more cool that there is a combination of B&M and online, private consultation and online sales, etc. In another topic, someone used the phrase "vendors are going to extinct themselves" if they don''t follow the trend of consumers being more educated about IS, ASET, cut, etc. I wish I could remember the post! Anyway, I think that''s a very apt phrase for what I see happening to some of these stores. There''s no shortage of jewelry stores in the medium size, midwestern city I live in, but there''s a large shortage of jewelry stores who educate their sales staff.

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 6/18/2009 12:37:07 PM
Author: Rockit
I forgot to respond to the WG comment. Here: ... Oh, wait... sorry. There is no hysterically laughing smiley available to post!

Here ya go!

Yeah, that''s certainly my fave - I should''ve asked her how deep than do they need to go for platinum....but wouldn''t want to strain the poor dear

 

[risingsun]

I have a stunning HOF wedding set. I came in to my jeweler with a PS education in diamonds and a WF ACA, which I was interested in upgrading. My jeweler didn't try to sell me a HOF with any misleading information. He believes in his brand with same way that Jon, Brian, and Paul believe in their brands. The spectral colors I see most often are red, yellow and orange, but blue and green are also present. I know that some folks enjoy going into to see HOF and criticizing the diamonds and the sales associates. From personal experience, I can tell you that my HOF is as much a performer--and perhaps more so--than my ACA. I work with jewelers who are informed and educated, not sales clerks. We discuss all the parameters and attributes that make up an ideal stone. We look at it under the microscope and compare the inclusions to the grading plot. We take it into a variety of lighting conditions. I bring my own idealscope to check for light leakage. I do everything at my B&M that I have done online. I am a very demanding client and decided to go with my local B&M because of the extra services that are provided. It was well worth it to me. Not everyone who makes the choice to purchase a HOF is a naive individual who does not know how to make a better choice.