Hand Forged vs CAD / Cast Setting

[Ally T]

Obviously I am aware to the difference between the two, but what would you say the pro's & con's were of each? I am just trying to educate myself a little more

 

[Gypsy]

Handforged
Pro:
Metal will not have porosity issues. Metal can be stronger than casting as it is worked.

Con:
It is hand made. So it may have minor quirks, and probably not be perfectly symmetric.
Some artists don’t even provide a sketch, so have you trust a lot more that the vision in the artists head is the same as yours. For those who do provide a sketch, it’s just that—a sketch. How closely it resembles the final product depends on the skill of the artist in both rendering and manufacturing your item. And how true they stay to the sketch (some will tweak the design from what was shown in the sketch when they are fabricating, and won’t tell you).

CAD and CAST:
Pro:
Better for some designs especially ones requiring a great deal of symmetry. Can see a 3-D rendering before-hand and that is what the mold is made from, so you know it is accurate to what you will get in a finished product.

Con:
Casting can have issues. Porosity is the main concern.


One is not better than the other really. If you are dealing with top notch artists/benches for both you are getting something lovely and strong either way.
But, there are some designs that are better for CAD. And some that are better for Handforged.

 

[Ally T]

Thanks Gypsy. A great deal of info - brilliant

 

[chrisan]

Sorry for reviving this thread- but can you please give some examples of settings that are better cast? I'm thinking of cushion with tapered baguettes, would that be better cast instead of hand-forged? I know (at least from what I read) halos and micro-pave is better done hand forged, but what about a simpler style?

 

[Gypsy]

In terms of structural security. Both are fine for that style Chisan. There's no bad choice for that style. But I personally prefer hand forged for this style because of the fluid lines Steven Kirsch and others achieve that CAD doesn't seem to capture. I've seen a lot of hand forged three stones and they always look more high-end. And that's probably because jewelers like Harry Winston also handforge these setting.

Hand forged means that the metal is worked and is stronger than CAD. Because with Three stones you don't need super (1.8mm) thick shanks anyway. But Handforged will still probably be a little stronger.

 

[chrisan]

Thanks Gypsy- Hand-forged it is!

 

[tyty333]

Hey Gypsy,
You didn't mention cost. Is there an approximate percentage higher that hand forged cost
Vs. a well made CAD (like ERD). I know it can be dependent on the type of setting. Maybe
you can give a range like 20-40% higher. I'd be curious to know. What's your best estimate?

Tyty333

 

[ericad]

Hand forged, at least with my jeweler, costs 30-40% more than the exact same ring done as cast, and visually there would be very little difference, with the CAD/cast piece likely being more "perfect" in its symmetry, construction, etc. since it's designed on the computer before being prototyped and cast. The great thing about CAD/cast is the CAD option - gives the buyer more control over the process to be able to see the design before ok'ing production. But hand forged is a more artisanal process that is appealing for that reason alone - a craftsperson painstakingly hand forging a ring costs more, but has an air of bespoke-ness (yes, I realize that's not a word) that will appeal to people. Yes, cast can have porosity issues, but if you're working with a highly skilled jeweler, this shouldn't be a problem (and if it is, the jeweler should offer a reasonable warranty), and a cast piece will last a lifetime, or more, just like a hand forged piece, especially if done in platinum.

It's really a personal choice - one must evaluate his/her expectations, then choose the method that best meets those needs.

 

[Karl_K]

Hand forged, at least with my jeweler, costs 30-40% more than the exact same ring done as cast, and visually there would be very little difference, with the CAD/cast piece likely being more "perfect" in its symmetry, construction, etc. since it's designed on the computer before being prototyped and cast.

But it will never have the crisp lines and sharp edges of a well made hand forge setting and the small details can have a much better polish.
In a cast piece unless you raise the cost 100%+ over cast will have some rough areas where it is impossible to polish without spending days on it.
Where a hand forged piece they are polished then assembled.
To me that is the biggest difference, cast looks soft and flowing where a well made hand forge piece should be crisp and sharply detailed.
With some settings it doesn't matter much where in the others the difference is night and day.

 

[ericad]

True, Karl, cast can't achieve some very intricate designs with very tiny parts and pieces (think Edwardian scrolls and filigree to a very high degree of precision), because polishing these areas properly on a cast piece would destroy it.

That's why someone considering both options should evaluate what their priorities are, in the context of their design, and go from there. There's no right or wrong answer - it's very individual, and budget does play an important part for many people.

 

[Gypsy]

Hey Gypsy,
You didn't mention cost. Is there an approximate percentage higher that hand forged cost
Vs. a well made CAD (like ERD). I know it can be dependent on the type of setting. Maybe
you can give a range like 20-40% higher. I'd be curious to know. What's your best estimate?

Tyty333

Sorry Tyty, that is true.

It really depends on the design. I know a nice platinum HW halo with CAD usually runs about 3000-3800 depending on the details. Where as a handforged one will almost consistently cost about 4,500 to 6,600 depending on the details.

A three stone in CAD in platinum is probably around 1,200 for just the setting (not the sidestones) on average. And I have no idea what a handforged one costs, since I have no quoted one out.

In general CAD will be less expensive. So that is a big difference between the two.

There are some designs that, even if I had unlimited funds, I would not get handforged. And there are some designs that even if I was on a tight budget, I wouldn't get CAD and CAST (I'd just pick a different design if I couldn't afford the handforged version).

Best thing to do is to send out quote requests. For any project I do custom, I get at least 3 quotes. And if I am trying to decide between CAD and Handforged. Then I will get four quotes; 2 CAD and 2 handforged.

 

[Victor Canera]

I wanted to chime in because this is a subject that I’m pretty passionate about.

In general terms, handmade jewelry takes a lot more man hours to complete than a CAD\CAM or hand carved wax that is cast. This is the main reason for the cost difference between the two techniques.

A hand made piece of jewelry can be considered a one of a kind piece of jewelry though. There is no digital document where a craftsman can run the design again and replicate it exactly. There will always be a human element involved (with hand-forged pieces) and no two rings of the same design will be exactly (to the microscopic level) the same.

Hand fabricated jewelry will always have denser metal than a cast piece. The reason is that the metal is put under extreme pressures (such as with a rolling mill) that condenses the metal more than in its natural state. These tools help to form the metal into the required shapes to make a design. This increased metal density can NOT be replicated with cast jewelry at all. Even after annealing the metal, this strength and density remains.

Other advantages of hand forged jewelry are the really sharp seams, clean surfaces and just overall more razor sharp feel of a piece that cast jewelry can not achieve. To me, I like to use the analogy of having an original document vs. one that is copied, a copy of the copy made etc. The original is always going to be the perfect example. The others will be slightly degraded replicas of the original.

Cast metal also develops a rough surface from the casting process that needs to be then cleaned. So even CAD\CAM (or hand carved wax) designs need to be thoroughly filed down and polished before further work can be done. For this reason CAD\CAM pieces can have symmetry issues as well because even though a computer made the wax, a human filed down and cleaned the casting. I would recommend Googling “Casting tree” to see this firsthand.

It’s true that some designs are hard to achieve using hand made techniques OR it would take so much effort on the part of the craftsman that it would really not be worth the price of entry for the consumer. As a general rule, flowy, designs with a lot of curves and different thicknesses in the parts would be very time consuming to achieve using hand made jewelry techniques.

There are also some designs that can be made with other techniques of making jewelry that are comparable in quality to hand fabricated pieces. For example, die-struck pieces can be very fine quality and can even achieve a three dimensionality that would be hard to achieve otherwise. Other designs can be machined with a lathe. Both of these techniques don’t involve casting and would not have the issues that casting causes.

To the OP, consider the design you have in mind, your budget and what is important to you and then talk to a jeweler that you trust and get his opinion. Depending on the design one technique might be more appropriate or your jeweler might be more comfortable working with one technique vs. another.


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