Gunman in Charleston Church Shooting Captured

[AGBF]

The young man suspected of the hate crime killing of the the nine parishioners at the prayer meeting at the black Charleston church last night was captured in North Carolina, 200 miles from Charleston. He is from the Columbia, South Carolina area. Here is a link to more on the story, which I assume most of you have been following.

Suspected Killer Captured...http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/19/us/charleston-church-shooting.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=second-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

Deb/AGBF

 

[telephone89]

I'm just waiting to hear about how he's mentally ill, and that it wasn't a hate crime.

If it was a black shooter, he wouldn't have even been captured alive.

 

[iLander]

I'm just waiting to hear about how he's mentally ill, and that it wasn't a hate crime.

If it was a black shooter, he wouldn't have even been captured alive.

Agree! Totally.

This is so sad . . . my heart goes out to the families.

 

[Sha]

The whole thing is just absolutely sickening. I feel so sad thinking about it.

 

[Gypsy]

He's a domestic terrorist, an ignorant thug, and an unrepentant white-supremacist.
I agree with the Washington Post article here 100%: http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/06/18/call-the-charleston-church-shooting-what-it-is-terrorism/


And I agree with John Stewart: http://www.mediaite.com/tv/stewart-drops-the-comedy-to-talk-charleston-we-still-wont-do-jackshit/


I am not listening to the media because if I hear one person say "wait... here are the extenuiating factors and why we should feel sorry for this LONE gunman;" Instead of acknowledging the larger problem of racism and the historic terrorism of black and other churches and mosques-- I will LOSE MY SH*T.

And I can't believe that South Carolina is still flying the Confederate Flag.

 

[arkieb1]

I thought the same thing if he was a young black man he would probably be dead now not captured. Americans wonder why the rest of the world looks on and questions your gun control laws. People flame me every time I mention stricter gun control. Yet without it you are a society imploding from within.

 

[missy]

He's a domestic terrorist, an ignorant thug, and an unrepentant white-supremacist.
I agree with the Washington Post article here 100%: http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/06/18/call-the-charleston-church-shooting-what-it-is-terrorism/


And I agree with John Stewart: http://www.mediaite.com/tv/stewart-drops-the-comedy-to-talk-charleston-we-still-wont-do-jackshit/


I am not listening to the media because if I hear one person say "wait... here are the extenuiating factors and why we should feel sorry for this LONE gunman;" Instead of acknowledging the larger problem of racism and the historic terrorism of black and other churches and mosques-- I will LOSE MY SH*T.

And I can't believe that South Carolina is still flying the Confederate Flag.

Sometimes I feel like this cannot be happening that I am living in a world that is a surreal nightmare. A tragedy on all levels and I am with you in that I cannot stomach listening to the media.

I thought the same thing if he was a young black man he would probably be dead now not captured. Americans wonder why the rest of the world looks on and questions your gun control laws. People flame me every time I mention stricter gun control. Yet without it you are a society imploding from within.

Yes that description fits too well unfortunately. We are destroying ourselves slowly but surely and imploding from within.

 

[Sha]

I'm not an American and don't live in the U.S, but it's terrifying to hear of these mass shootings. It's horrible that a deranged/mentally ill/racist/evil person could just go and kill so many innocent people in a matter of minutes.... Horrifying!! And it just keeps on happening. It's a black church this time...the next time it might be another minority community...a mosque....or mall....maybe just random people going about their day. It seems like it could happen anywhere, really.

 

[Maria D]

I'm not an American and don't live in the U.S, but it's terrifying to hear of these mass shootings. It's horrible that a deranged/mentally ill/racist/evil person could just go and kill so many innocent people in a matter of minutes.... Horrifying!! And it just keeps on happening. It's a black church this time...the next time it might be another minority community...a mosque....or mall....maybe just random people going about their day. It seems like it could happen anywhere, really.

you forgot school...

 

[Indylady]

And I can't believe that South Carolina is still flying the Confederate Flag.

+1

 

[Dancing Fire]

Too many crazy people in this world...

 

[stracci2000]

If you dont like another person or a group of people, there are many things you can do.
You can make signs and protest. You can write letters to the newspaper.
You can go see the mayor of your town. You can start a blog. You can complain to anyone who will listen.
You can start a discussion group with your like-minded friends. You can yell from the rooftops. Paste a sign on your forehead-------

BUT-- when you load bullets in a gun and actually go after people, then you are mentally ill.
There's just no other explanation, the way I see it.
There has to be something so very wrong with someone who would actually make plans and kill another person.

 

[arkieb1]

If you dont like another person or a group of people, there are many things you can do.
You can make signs and protest. You can write letters to the newspaper.
You can go see the mayor of your town. You can start a blog. You can complain to anyone who will listen.
You can start a discussion group with your like-minded friends. You can yell from the rooftops. Paste a sign on your forehead-------

BUT-- when you load bullets in a gun and actually go after people, then you are mentally ill.
There's just no other explanation, the way I see it.
There has to be something so very wrong with someone who would actually make plans and kill another person.

I'm not sure I believe that is true..... Plenty of people shoot and blow up people in the name of religious freedom or the ideology of a particular cause. This does not make every single one of them mentally ill. If you believe strongly enough in something many people are willing to die for that with no mental issues at all. I agree by your and my standards, there is something wrong with a person that becomes and extremist sure but I think if you can prove a premeditated act they should not get away with a downgraded sentence on the basis there must automatically be mental issues.

 

[Gypsy]

BUT-- when you load bullets in a gun and actually go after people, then you are mentally ill.
There's just no other explanation, the way I see it.
There has to be something so very wrong with someone who would actually make plans and kill another person.

There is another explanation. Evil. Real evil. That's what it is. To call it 'mentally ill' is an insult to the mentally ill, IMO.

 

[missy]

BUT-- when you load bullets in a gun and actually go after people, then you are mentally ill.
There's just no other explanation, the way I see it.
There has to be something so very wrong with someone who would actually make plans and kill another person.

There is another explanation. Evil. Real evil. That's what it is. To call it 'mentally ill' is an insult to the mentally ill, IMO.

Sorry to keep quoting you Gypsy but I keep finding myself nodding in agreement to your posts. Real evil exists. History has shown this time and again. EVIL is real and unfortunately all around us and it is not fair to blame it on mental illness.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I agree, but mental illness and evil sometimes walk hand in hand. In this case, I believe both are applicable. Contrast that to the response of the families affected...love, grace, mercy in spite of the deepest hurt imaginable. Beautiful contrast. I love Charleston and there are some very wonderful people there. I'd rather focus on the good than the evil. Evil can only be overcome with love, and that is what we are seeing here.

 

[stracci2000]

I appreciate all your opinions. And I see all the great points you guys are making.
I'll try to explain my thinking.

Here's a scenario.
Let's say I don't like somebody. Say I really hate them.
There's a way that I can get my hands on a gun, knife, or some other weapon.
I have decided that I hate them so much, that I want to kill them with my own hands.
Then I get in my car and drive to their house with the weapon on the seat next to me.
I get to the house. I turn off the car. I know I'm gonna kill them.
Wait---WHAT??? Then police will find me, and I'll go to jail for a long time.
Everything that I enjoy will be gone. I'll never get to do anything I want ever again. My parents will be devastated. They'll have to sell the house and move away.
Grandma has a bad heart, she might have a heart attack over this. She'll die because of my actions.
The person I hate has little kids. The kids will be damaged forever. It will be sooooo bad.
Yes., I hate the person, and I would like them to die, but so many others will suffer.

You see, a sane person will think of these things. Way before they go looking for a weapon.
This guy was convinced that a certain kind of people are taking over the world, and by killing a roomful of them, this will stop it.
Totally delusional.
I dunno. Someone correct me if I'm wrong about this.

 

[CRYSTAL24K]

And I can't believe that South Carolina is still flying the Confederate Flag.

+1

I cringe every time I see this flag and unfortunately where I live they are a common. I am hoping that by the time the boys are in kindergarten we will be in another state.

 

[kenny]

This man just did a bad thing.

'Explaining' it is futile.
Evil, mental illness are all attempts at the impossible, explaining it.

Once again, as with religion, the human mind can't tolerating what it doesn't understand so it tries to come up with answers.
Of course we don't take responsibility for inventing 'answers' ... these 'answers' are just out there.

The only thing we know for sure, and that is beyond argument is, this man did a bad thing.
I can leave it at what we know for sure.

He'll be tried, and if found guilty, punished.

 

[CRYSTAL24K]

I am so saddened by this shooting. I pray for the families affected and his as well. My heart breaks over and over whenever I read or hear anything about this situation.

I do think that there is mental illness and I do think that there is evil. I also think that there is a difference between the two. My sister is bi-polar. I can tell when she is cycling due to her condition and I can also tell when she is just acting like a B*%$# just to get her own way. Just because someone is diagnosed with a mental illness does not mean that it is a covering for their actions all of the time IMO.

I believe that the shooter's motivations and foundations were evil. He was probably brought up with a prejudicial attitude toward black people and his mental illness put him way over the edge. We will never know the answer for sure. It is quite obvious, and unarguable, that his actions and his end goal were evil.

Either way, there are no winners whether you deem that his actions are a result of mental illness or a result of evil intent. There is nothing but sadness. Unfortunately, everybody loses.

 

[CRYSTAL24K]

This man just did a bad thing.
Evil, mental illness are all attempts at the impossible, explaining it.

...

The only thing we know for sure, and that is beyond argument is, this man did a bad thing.
I can leave it at what we know for sure.

He'll be tried, and if found guilty, punished.

I completely agree.

 

[tyty333]

My heart goes out to the families. I dont know how some of them can be so forgiving at a moment like this.

 

[Gypsy]

You see, a sane person will think of these things. Way before they go looking for a weapon.
This guy was convinced that a certain kind of people are taking over the world, and by killing a roomful of them, this will stop it.
Totally delusional.
I dunno. Someone correct me if I'm wrong about this.

I'm going to disagree, and explain why.

The thing with racism, or any other "us versus them" mentality is that the focus of it is in dehumanizing the other. They become less than human. And then they become a threat. And it becomes a war.

Is war mental illness too? A mass mental illness that infects entire populations of people? Because if you follow the mental illness' reasoning, that's where it goes.

So all of those things you mention... grandparents and children, etc. Consequences. They do not MATTER. The grandparents and the children (in the example of racism) are BLACK. So they are a threat to YOU. And you are human. And they are LESS. So you don't HAVE to worry about them. You don't have to FEEL compassion. Anymore than you would for the family of the spider you stepped on yesterday. Because that's all they are to you. A threat, an insect. Even if the grandparents and the children aren't black, or other they are associating with the other. So they are traitors to your kind. So, again, they don't matter.

And you are JUSTIFIED in what you are doing, because you are human, you are BETTER, and YOU have more of a right to life, to freedom, to EVERYTHING than they ever will.

This is how the holocaust happened. This is how slavery happens. This is what happens with ANY other "us versus them" mentality that places one group of humans above another group. Whether they are black, Jewish, Muslim... it doesn't matter.

And IMO, it's evil. And I'm not talking in the religious sense. At least not for me. I don't think you have to be religious to believe in evil. Evil exists. Whether it is bound up in a larger belief system or not... it exists.

And yes, I believe war is caused by evil as well.

This is different from mental illness. Mental illness is not catching. You don't spend time with a schizophrenic person and suddenly are are one too because you CATCH IT. A child with no biological factors for being bi-polar isn't going to BECOME so by handing out with a 'bad gang' of bi-polar people.

No. But racism. Racism infects. It's like a virus. It spreads. It's not a mental illness. It's evil. It taints. And yes, mental illness can make someone more susceptible to evil. Because it may impair their ability to recognize right from wrong, for example. Or they have poor impulse control. But it is not evil itself. Evil is separate from mental illness.

And this guy didn't think he was 'fixing' the problem. He was either thinking he was making a 'statement' for all white people, to wake them up to the threat at their doorstep. Or that he was just another soldier in a larger war. And if you really BELIEVE that blacks are a threat. Then his actions aren't delusional. They are, unfortunately, logical. He sacrifices himself for the 'greater good' of a war that he sees. A war against beings that are less than him.

That's not mental illness. It's just evil. IMO.

 

[stracci2000]

Good explanation, Gypsy.
I guess I need to think of it differently.
It's just so hard for me to wrap my brain around what this guy did.

 

[Gypsy]

That's because you are untainted by the evil fanatism that infects him. And that's a goid thing.

I am in an "other" group. I am from Iran. And while I am not Muslim, my family is. Sure I came to the US when I was 3-4 years old. But I am other to some.

I've been on recieving end of this poison. And I have felt the hate and the malevolence of it. Seen the taint of it...the evil. Its based in fear, and fear leads to evil.

Right after 9/11 my BIL who likes me...has met my family sat there at a dinner table next to me and said seriously that he believes that dropping nukes on Iran, Iraq, and Palestine-- genocide-- was the solution.

And he was surprised when I stopped talking to him. And he kept saying... "I didn't mean you, you're different. Obviously." Trying to explain. But I am not different from them, those people in the middle East. And-- here is what he failed to grasp--neither is he. We are all equal and the same. The reason.we were bombed is the bombers decided we were other. Less. So it was okay to kill us.My BIL in a fear response, was doing exctly the same thing the terrorists had done. He became tainted by their evil. This is how war starts. Fear and evil and dehumanisation of the 'other'.

 

[packrat]

That us v them mentality spills into just about every aspect of our lives anymore, seems like. There's a problem there.

 

[Gypsy]

That us v them mentality spills into just about every aspect of our lives anymore, seems like. There's a problem there.

I could not agree with you more Packrat. I could not agree with more.

 

[iLander]

That us v them mentality spills into just about every aspect of our lives anymore, seems like. There's a problem there.

I could not agree with you more Packrat. I could not agree with more.

The problem is Fox News. I don't know why people don't call them out for what they do: brainwashing. A constant barrage of a single view or specific set of information, without any dissent, is brainwashing. It's effective and evil. They spread hatred continuously and not realizing it is naive.

 

[iLander]

My favorite response to this whole thing is Jeb Bush's:

"I don't know what was on the mind or the heart of the man who committed these atrocious crimes," the former Florida governor said at the Faith & Freedom Coalition conference.

Gee, whiz, golly, what could it be? A$$.

To not acknowledge it was racially motivated is heinous, manipulative, and a slap in the face to the victims and their families.

I know, let's deflect the conversation from guns, racism and mental health issues and turn it onto the confederate flag. That will distract everyone for a few minutes and make it look like we're doing something. I'm glad they're getting rid of the flag (even Walmart will stop selling confederate flag merchandise! Finally, yay!) but I feel that it is a manipulation. Again.

 

[packrat]

That us v them mentality spills into just about every aspect of our lives anymore, seems like. There's a problem there.

I could not agree with you more Packrat. I could not agree with more.

The problem is Fox News. I don't know why people don't call them out for what they do: brainwashing. A constant barrage of a single view or specific set of information, without any dissent, is brainwashing. It's effective and evil. They spread hatred continuously and not realizing it is naive.

I've actually seen an incredibly staggering amount of us v them vitriol from people on FB--and it's not all to do w/the Fox News standpoint-it's the opposing side actually. The whole thing goes both ways. Both sides are massively guilty of it, but nobody wants to acknowledge their "own" side doing it.