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Jamie Kutch

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 8, 2005
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I have been with my girlfriend for 8 years and am ready to ask her to marry me. I am curious how my diamond price appears to some of the savy individuals here. Below is the diamond info and at the far bottom is the price. Thanks for any feedback you can give me.


AGS Graded Diamond - Novermber 30th, 2004

Shape & Style: Round Brilliant
Measurements: 8.46 - 8.5- X 5.23 mm
Grade: Ideal
Polish: Ideal
Symmetry: Ideal
Proportions: Ideal
Color Grade: I
Clarity: SI1
Weight: 2.277 cts.
Comments: Fluorescence: Negligible - Pinpoints are not shown, inscribed numbers on girdle

Table: 56%
Total depth: 61.7%
Crown angle: 34.2%
Crown height: 15.0%
Pavillion depth: 43.5%
Pavillion angle: 41.1%
Faceted: 1.1% to 1.7%

Finally, I found the diamond to be very clean for an SI1 with very minor inclusions. When compared to a GIA - H colored diamond on white paper the color was identical.
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$18,500 - Any thoughts would be more than appreciated. The price reflects 6.5% under Rap. I intend to pay cash.
 
the price you were quoted is very fair.
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Yes I have no problem with the price either.
 
Thanks to both of you. Man you post counts are SERIOUS! My passion lies in wine and your post count reminds me of my addiction to Robert Parkers Wine Chat Board. I am pushing close to 2K posts there and I am addicted to it. Thanks again and I respect both your passions and opinions.

If anyone else has any feedback I would enjoy hearing it before spending the most money I have ever spent in my life.
 
Very fair price, for such an ideal stone.
 
you''re welcome
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i relied heavily on robert parker resources when i first ventured into wines. best of luck with the diamond buying!
 
I plugged the numbers into the HCA here on Pricescope and it kicked out the following.

Light Return: Very Good
Fire: Very Good
Scintillation: Very Good
Spread: Very Good

Total Visual Performance 2.3 - Very Good - Worth buying if the price is right

If anyone can break this down I would be most appreciated.
I really want the best diamond I can find for $18,500 and I hope this diamond is close.
 
HCA of 2.3?
Hmmm
Any Gemex or Isee results?
Ask the seller to obtain these.
At 18.5K I think s/he should agree.

I'd try to compare it, side by side, to something with an HCA closer to 1.
Then if you still like it, buy it.
If I were you and I didn't do this I would always wonder if I got the best light performance for my money.
 
Thanks Kenny - The diamond doesn''t have results for Gemex or Isee.
I will inquire to the seller and see if I can obtain these results.
I take it that 2.3 isn''t that good by your hmm remark as well as your asking for further results.

Does anyone have any suggestions in the Bay area of CA. where I can look at and potentially buy a Diamond?
I have been looking South Of Market in S.F. on Brandon Street.
There are a bunch of small wholesale or so they call themselves stores under one roof.
 
Everyone has different priorities.
Mine is for optimum light performance.
My personal lowest priority is size.
Size is the main thing that others will notice.
I am not buying a diamond for others.
I am buying it for myself.

Only you know your priorities.

While side by side comparison can't be beat I also respect the tools such as HCA, Gemex and ISee.
Shopping for the right diamond is like looking for a needle-in-the-haystack.
These tools can help.

You have a very nice budget.
Why settle for lower light performance?
 
Thanks Kenny.

I would be happy to drop the size down from 2.27 to closer to 2 for better light.

I have looked at close to 40 stones (thus far) and my knowledge still lacks. I just hope to end up with a great stone in the end.

Maybe I should pass and keep looking. Now I am stumped.
 
I'm sure you will end up with a great stone.
You are here on Pricescope, aren't you?

Sorry if my input makes you feel frustrated.
Take a break if you need to.
Don't let any seller rush you.
In the end after hearing many opinions you will zoom in on what feels right to *you*.
Then buy your stone and don't look back.
 
Would you consider going with a PS internet vendor? With that budget, you should have lots of options---which is not to say that the stone you already found isn't beautiful. I honestly don't know how a stone that scores a 2.3 would compare visually to one that scores under 2. Would you be able to tell a difference? Maybe, maybe not. Remember that the HCA is only a tool -- it can weed out bad performers, but it's not the final word. In fact, there are many people who think that diamonds that score under 1 should be avoided. If you've seen 40 diamonds so far and this one looks beautiful, that means something. I think the thing that is throwing off the HCA score is the pavilion angle -- it's a bit on the steep side. Here's a nice stone fom WF. It's a little more than the one you're looking at, but you might make up for that by not having to pay sales tax.

http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-1428874.htm#

ETA: I'm not at all saying you should pass on the stone you posted above. It sounds like a really nice stone at a really nice price. What is their return policy? What about taking the stone to an independent appraiser? If there aren't any in your area, there are several on PS that would be able to tell you whether you're getting good light return or whether you could do better. Just a thought.
 

Kenny,
Thanks - no need to appologize for making me second guess and my getting fustrated. I actually was surprised when everyone was positive on this stone in the begining of this thread. I know that the stone isn't the greatest for the money I am about to spend as my knowledge and eye is not very mature at this point. I had this stone up against 3 other stones of similar quality and the only reason I was going with it was because of its size. It wasn't emmiting more light or brilliance.

Demelza,
Thanks for the link and for your feedback. - I would not be able to tell the difference from a HCA score of 2.3 to under 2 probably. It's also good to know that some here feel that individuals should avoid a diamond that is scored under 1. For the record - after looking at 40 diamonds - nothing jumped out at me. I feel like I have exhausted the brick and morters around me and that there isn't that many Diamonds around a little over 2 cts. in the class of H-I, VS1. As for the WhiteFlash links - thanks. Beautiful Diamond (or so it looks on paper). MAybe I should post and ask - Spend my 20K on more than 2 Cts. Brilliant.

Finally - I don't know the stores return policy. He doesn't have that many diamonds so a return wouldn't be considered if purchased. Indipendent appraiser is a good idea.
 
Date: 9/9/2005 2:02:48 PM
Author: Jamie Kutch


Kenny,

Thanks - no need to appologize for making me second guess and my getting fustrated. I actually was surprised when everyone was positive on this stone in the begining of this thread. I know that the stone isn't the greatest for the money I am about to spend as my knowledge and eye is not very mature at this point. I had this stone up against 3 other stones of similar quality and the only reason I was going with it was because of its size. It wasn't emmiting more light or brilliance.


Demelza,

Thanks for the link and for your feedback. - I would not be able to tell the difference from a HCA score of 2.3 to under 2 probably. It's also good to know that some here feel that individuals should avoid a diamond that is scored under 1. For the record - after looking at 40 diamonds - nothing jumped out at me. I feel like I have exhausted the brick and morters around me and that there isn't that many Diamonds around a little over 2 cts. in the class of H-I, VS1. As for the WhiteFlash links - thanks. Beautiful Diamond (or so it looks on paper). MAybe I should post and ask - Spend my 20K on more than 2 Cts. Brilliant.


Finally - I don't know the stores return policy. He doesn't have that many diamonds so a return wouldn't be considered if purchased. Indipendent appraiser is a good idea.

Click to expand...

Well, if you weren't blown away by the stone, then definitely pass. For that much money -- for any amount of money -- the stone should really shine (literally and figuratively). For 20K, you should be able to get a 2+ ct superideal cut, eyeclean (VS2-SI1) in the near colorless range (H-J). If you want higher color and clarity, you will likely have to drop down to the 1.75 ct range (hard size to find).

Re: HCA scores less than 1 -- I am certainly not an advocate of eliminating stones that score less than 1. My stone scores .5 and it has fabulous light return, I think. I was simply pointing out that there are a lot of opinions out there about what makes a diamond beautiful. You'll drive yourself crazy if you get too caught up in the numbers game. If a diamond is beautiful to you and sparkles more than others you've seen, but it scores above a 2 or less than a 1, there is no reason to discount it simply because of a number. Your eyes are your best guide.
 
The reason the HCA does not like your diamond, Jamie, is due to the high pavilion angle, over 41. It prefers stones under 41 pav angle. But such a small difference you say? I have heard it does make a visual difference but couldn't tell you for certain. I do try to shop for stones under 41 just because if Garry says its true, well heck it must be!
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I try to look for stones with specs I like and that usually gives me an HCA score between 1 and 1.5 or similar. Having had a stone with a 2.5 or similar HCA...I can see a huge difference in a well cut stone vs one that was not.

The stone price you quoted is fair...someone bought a 2.63 I SI2 (eye clean) ideal cut from WF for $19k or so recently.

Funny how you mention you saw a bunch of stones but nothing really caught you. Did they all look nice? Did you view them away from jeweler lighting aka in regular lighting?
 
Thanks Demelza...



Mara,

If I change the Pavillion angle from 41.1% to 41% the diamonds rating changes from 2.3 to 1.5

Light Return: Excellent
Fire: Very Good
Scintillation: Very Good
Spread: Very Good

I think I was spending too much time looking at all the diamonds under a microscope. I should have been looking closer to my naked eye. I always would step back from the lights above my head (at the counter top). All the Diamonds started looking the same as crazy as that sounds. Like I said, maybe its just my inexperienced eye.
 
Jamie and if you drop it to 40.9 I''m sure it scores even better right? That''s just how the HCA is.
 
Date: 9/9/2005 3:08:32 PM
Author: Jamie Kutch

If I change the Pavillion angle from 41.1% to 41% the diamonds rating changes from 2.3 to 1.5
Click to expand...
So.... don''t give HCA another thought. It gave your diamond green light and there isn''t more it can say, as far as I can tell.

If you didn''t feel any particular enthusiasm for these diamonds, than perhaps a different shape will. Have you tried ?
 
When spending 1/5 of my savings I want a KILLER diamond.

I want my future wife to get compliment after compliment.

She is set on Round and over 2cts.

This is a nice looking stone linked below.

Here


In my search I assumed I would see a diamond and I would sudden think - WOW - THATS INCREDIBLE!!!

Would anyone suggest I buy the ideal scope to futher assist me
 
You''re spending a generous amount of money and I agree with everyone who''s said -- if you don''t love it, pass. #s tell you a lot, and maybe I''m romantic, but I think you''ll know the right one when you see it. It''s frustrating not being able to see more in person by you, but the online vendors you see recommended around here are pretty good with photos and eyeballing things for you & if you fall in cyber love with something, you can have it sent to a 3rd party appraiser to get their opinion too. Then, if it checks out, buy it, have it sent to you and hope it takes you breath away. If it doesn''t: rinse, repeat. She''ll be wearing it F-O-R-E-V-E-R. I bet if it speaks to you it will speak to her. (Not that many gals around here would toss back an 18K rock of ANY shape or form). Good luck!
 
Thanks decodelighted

4 weeks ago I was in a diamond store and didn''t know even what a SI1 is. My knowledge has grown exponencially since that time. I have always found it been most annoying shopping at a Brick and Morter and getting the sales pitch. I usually tell them upfront - please save the pitch. This board is an incredible resource and I can see getting hooked easily. Your help is appreciated. As I learn more I think I might do better buying online (possible) and going for an ideal super cut.
 
A quick thought about the SuperbCert stone -- I've heard nothing but good things about SC diamonds; however, the only thing that would bother me about that diamond is the depth. At 62.1, the stone will face up a bit smaller than a stone with a depth closer to 60. As long as the stone isn't too deep, it shouldn't affect the appearance of the diamond. But if I'm paying for a 2+ ct stone, I want to get the best spread (within reason, of course) possible. Compare the stone from WF to the SC stone: they are almost the same carat weight, but the deeper stone is smaller in diameter by about .2 mm. Not a lot, I know, but when it comes to size, I'll take whatever I can get
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I know what you mean about all diamonds starting to look alike. Yes, there is a real visual difference between an average cut diamond and an ideal cut. But if you're looking at a whole bunch of very well cut diamonds, it can be difficult to discern the difference. Unless you really know what you're looking for. I am certain that you can find a KILLER stone for your budget. Big, beautiful, and firey. A superideal cut is a great place to start!
 
Here is an alternative with similar color and clairty, almost the same spread, similar price (ask for the PS discount) with great pics. WF 2.15 I/SI1. I think you should shop around and find one that blows your socks off...
 
The accuracy of the scan is critical at this point.
I would suggest you move to an ideal-scope and other tests - or ask for the stone to be sent to an independant appraiser.
 
Here''s one from Good Old Gold. The specs look really nice. For some reason, it doesn''t score very high for white light return on the BrillianceScope. I don''t know exactly what that means, but the numbers suggest it might be a good stone to check out. Also, the inclusions look like they''re off to the side, not right under the table. That seems promising.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/2_273ct_i_si1_h%26a.htm
 
http://www.goodoldgold.com/2_273ct_i_si1_h%26a.htm

That is a winner to me.
 
Oh I love the WF and GOG stones posted! Yummy!
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I like those stones too of course! I''d take either of em!
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At 2+ carats with SI1 clarity, you''ll want to discuss the inclusions in any of the stones you''re considering with the vendors. People who have bought from most of the vendors who post here have said that they were really honest in telling you if the inclusions were visible or not (or if so, at what angle and in what light, etc.). Another thing to consider (like you need more things to consider!). :)

By the way, I love I/SI1 as a great way to get a white, no visible inclusions (fingers crossed) stone for a great price. And by making cut a priority, I will guarantee you that people will be jealous of your lady''s stone and will wonder why theirs doesn''t sparkle as much.

Let us know what you decide and then post pictures so we can drool!
 
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