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Group Think...

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
So I was just reading a thread where there was a comment about PSers being very prone to "group think" and I thought... let's see what the group thinks! Get it? Group thinks :tongue: ... anyway what are you INDIVIDUAL thoughts.

I'm interested in opinions from long timers and newbies and lurkers... what your experience on PS has been like.

As for me... huh, I can see why people would say that especially on RT when we are all shouting about cut. We are a bit of a "cut cult" and there are some 'unofficial' rules that we play by (don't burst bubbles on SMTB or if there is no return policy, etc.) but as a rule I think PSers are a varied lot and have a spectrum of experiences and thoughts and aren't afraid to share them....
 

ForteKitty

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4,587
i agree. :cheeky: :bigsmile:
 

diva rose

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451
I've been here for a few years now and I don't post frequently, however I do lurk.

Do I believe 'group think' exist? Yes to some degree. I think it's pretty common in any community. I don't believe it's a bad thing unless it's negative and attacking particular views or a person. For example, if a group of PSers prefer a particular gem or cut - it's not hurting someone. However, if a group of PSers are degrading and attacking a person in a thread - 'group think' becomes 'group attacks'.
It's ugly and not needed, regardless of the situation. You can disagree without being condescending and judgmental.

Do I feel PS is full of different people? Well we are all unique individuals and different in our own way. However I feel most people want to be 'part of' something/community. They want a sense of belonging/acceptance and because of that need, we often put aside or modify our views/personalities to fit in. Is it a bad thing? I don't think so, it's just human nature.

Now...maybe someone who studies or practices in this field of work can elaborate? :)
 

AmeliaG

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Messages
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To a point I see it. There's no way to get a bunch of people together without some social norms forming. I think the culture here is systematic though of a community site that is very lightly moderated.

Majority opinions are going to form and members themselves are not always going to insure that every voice gets heard (nor should they be expected to). If there is no moderation enforcing the norms while making the envirnoment conducive for individual expression, members feel obliged to enforce the norms themselves and making the environment conducive for differing opinions sometimes falls by the wayside.

This happens in every unmoderated or lightly moderated forum I've seen, and Pricescope is definitely the best in the lot. Even in some highly moderated forums it doesn't happen unless the moderation team has a goal of lively discussion with varied opinions that a majority of people will feel comfortable in.

It is what it is; members do feel obliged to enforce social norms but that just is because there is no other mechanism to do so.
 

Laila619

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I see it a lot on Rocky Talk. Poster A wants to buy: (fill in the blank) something not from a PS vendor/different/a little outside the box, etc. Poster A explains what he is looking to buy. Poster A is then told that he really should get 'X' instead ('X' being the usual types of rings you see on PS). He's told that 'X' will be much nicer, and is steered towards WF, BGD, Leon, etc. I think PSers should encourage people to get what they originally wanted, and not what PS likes.

I do think over time all message boards are prone to group think; it's pretty much inevitable.
 

diamondseeker2006

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I think "group think" exists on this forum in certain instances particularly because we are far more educated on diamond quality than any other random group of people. I do not see it as a negative that we would steer people toward excellent cut diamonds over good cut. I think it is a no-brainer, actually. I mean, if this was a car forum and someone wanted to buy a used car, would the consensus recommend a Honda Accord or a Ford Pinto??? Duh! Why spend money on something that is mediocre (or poor) in quality if you know better???

Other than that, I think PS has very educated people overall, and therefore there may be some "common sense" operating on other topics. But I also think there is a very diverse group here and there are lots of things outside of jewelry that we'd have differences about. But as far as jewelry goes, this group seems to have excellent taste and I like the vast majority of the jewelry purchased by the regulars here!
 

diamondseeker2006

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Laila619|1309011433|2954757 said:
I see it a lot on Rocky Talk. Poster A wants to buy: (fill in the blank) something not from a PS vendor/different/a little outside the box, etc. Poster A explains what he is looking to buy. Poster A is then told that he really should get 'X' instead ('X' being the usual types of rings you see on PS). He's told that 'X' will be much nicer, and is steered towards WF, BGD, Leon, etc. I think PSers should encourage people to get what they originally wanted, and not what PS likes.

I do think over time all message boards are prone to group think; it's pretty much inevitable.
I think this is done most often when the vendor or the quality or price is questionable on the item. Trade-in and return policies differ as well. Sometimes it is the guy projecting what he likes and not thinking what the girl would like. All of these are justifiable reasons to suggest better options just to present new ideas to the OP. My goal is always to help the person get the best possible quality of something similar to their original idea. I'm sorry but I just can't affirm someone's question about buying a poor quality ring from "XYZ lower quality mall chain store". The forum would be pretty much worthless as a consumer advocacy site if we didn't try to help steer people in the right direction based on our experiences. A good example of this would be the current threads of dmd4ever. If someone else came on here looking at a diamond from the vendor who is withholding his refund, you can better believe we'd be steering the person toward a trustworthy PS vendor!!!!
 

movie zombie

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does it exist? yes.
does it exist on pricescope? sometimes, depending on the topic.
 

JewelFreak

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7,768
Many times PSers congratulate somebody on a piece that's totally unique: "I never would have thought of XX." Or advised unusual color or stone combinations when asked for ideas. Some like haloes, some can't stand 'em, ditto treatments. Plenty of different outlooks here.

What a non-gem lover may see as group think is usually advice based on experience. It's always sensible & the OP is free to take it or disregard it -- nobody's offended either way. If group think is preference for well cut, well saturated stones (tone & even sometimes hue being individual choices), include me in!
 

AmeliaG

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880
diamondseeker2006|1309011964|2954759 said:
I think "group think" exists on this forum in certain instances particularly because we are far more educated on diamond quality than any other random group of people.
Well yes and no. Diamonds have a wide variety characteristics and are expensive enough to force most people to prioritize. Its very difficult to impart one's knowledge without imparting also one's own opinion of what those priorities should be.

The problem for a newcomer who is not only uneducated about diamonds but also who has not developed any strong preferences becomes how to separate the opinion from the fact when reading replies. A total newbie doesn't have that point of reference and may not have the confidence to disregard some very strongly worded opinions that are presented as fact.

A case in point, it took me a long time to admit to myself that yes, I can see the difference between a D color and a G color and it bugs me. I've seen newbies get challenged on this quite strongly and persistently when they get a diamond that does not appear as white as they thought it would. It took me awhile to see that some longtime members who are well respected also can see the difference between a D and G so it was reassuring to see that I wasn't going crazy. Yet I consistently fail every color sensitivity test around so there is no explanation but I've seen enough diamonds in enough situations to confirm what my eyes see.

However, a newbie insisting on a Hearts & Arrows cut is less likely to get grief on why he needs a H&A even though the premium can be quite significant. I was one of those newbies that insisted on an H&A until I saw enough diamonds to determine I couldn't see the difference between an H&A and a near H&A. And lo and behold, I'm now seeing other members that can't see the difference either.

The most valuable thing about diamonds i've learned from this forum is that diamonds are very complex little objects. :o What almost every experience member finally gets down to saying is that a lot of decisions on color, clarity, and yes even cut is a matter of personal preference. That's simply not that obvious for a total newbie just reading replies coming into the forum. I can understand why though; to start off by saying everything is based on personal preference with no other help is not that helpful either.
 

somethingshiny

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Jul 22, 2007
Messages
6,746
I think that PS is often times subject to the "group think."

I say this because I am one of the very few who doesn't have a college degree, doesn't have a great job, live in a rural place where neighbors are rednecks and proud to be. Because I'm so different from the majority of PSers, I think I see it more clearly.

Obviously there is a group think regarding stats and vendors for our passion, diamonds and gemstones. But, there's more than that. Finances, credit, careers, education, marital values are just the first topic that comes to mind when I think of Group Think here.

You know I love you all, that's why I'm here. I don't think anyone is mean-spirited. It seems most PSers are liberal, but at the same time close-minded to a lot of discussions.
 

MichelleCarmen

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15,880
somethingshiny|1309020812|2954826 said:
I think that PS is often times subject to the "group think."

I say this because I am one of the very few who doesn't have a college degree, doesn't have a great job, live in a rural place where neighbors are rednecks and proud to be. Because I'm so different from the majority of PSers, I think I see it more clearly.

Obviously there is a group think regarding stats and vendors for our passion, diamonds and gemstones. But, there's more than that. Finances, credit, careers, education, marital values are just the first topic that comes to mind when I think of Group Think here.

You know I love you all, that's why I'm here. I don't think anyone is mean-spirited. It seems most PSers are liberal, but at the same time close-minded to a lot of discussions.
People like to hang out with (online and offline) with those who think like them. I guess here on PS, I see some cliques going on because of this. Those who think alike or do not, tend to engage in conversation together and ignore those who are considered less intellectual. It bugs me when people talk about how PS is filled with brilliant, highly-educated women and members are all better than the rest of the internet forum world.
 

Mayk

Ideal_Rock
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Feb 12, 2011
Messages
4,598
I watched that thread and commented too. I agree with the group think ting but.... What I have seen as a short timer and someone who is now completely addicted is there are so many knowledge people here and people who are willing to help and guide and provide what I think IMO is very solid advice and things to consider when making a major purchase...be it a $1,000 or a $30,000 budget. I still wish very much my husband and i had found this site before our first purchase but this site guided and redirected us. That poster was contentious from the get go and I thought very insulting to the people that post here. I will say I am a bit biased because I have become a huge fan and now direct friends here to learn. :read:
 

packrat

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
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Messages
10,615
somethingshiny|1309020812|2954826 said:
I think that PS is often times subject to the "group think."

I say this because I am one of the very few who doesn't have a college degree, doesn't have a great job, live in a rural place where neighbors are rednecks and proud to be. Because I'm so different from the majority of PSers, I think I see it more clearly.

Obviously there is a group think regarding stats and vendors for our passion, diamonds and gemstones. But, there's more than that. Finances, credit, careers, education, marital values are just the first topic that comes to mind when I think of Group Think here.

You know I love you all, that's why I'm here. I don't think anyone is mean-spirited. It seems most PSers are liberal, but at the same time close-minded to a lot of discussions.
I'll come sit by you SS. I feel like an outsider on those topics..like the kid who gets picked last at games.
 

jewelerman

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 30, 2007
Messages
3,101
I agree that there is some group think in the Rocky Talk section and every once in a while a poster is beat up on for their opinion. But for the most part people are accepting of new ideas,questions and thought patterns.Any forum is going to have the more aggressive or popular players who need to have their opinions/ views validated as the correct choice or they fight back to prove themselves right.
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
32,131
somethingshiny|1309020812|2954826 said:
I say this because I am one of the very few who doesn't have a college degree, doesn't have a great job, live in a rural place where neighbors are rednecks and proud to be. Because I'm so different from the majority of PSers, I think I see it more clearly.


You know I love you all, that's why I'm here. I don't think anyone is mean-spirited. It seems most PSers are liberal, but at the same time close-minded to a lot of discussions.
you and i are among rarities here on PS.there are only 3 PSers w/o a college degree.. ;))

most PSers are liberals cuz they are too young ,wait til they get older... :wink2:
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
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i am not in any group. i only have enemies here.. :tongue:
 

Dancing Fire

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AmeliaG|1309017964|2954808 said:

However, a newbie insisting on a Hearts & Arrows cut is less likely to get grief on why he needs a H&A even though the premium can be quite significant. I was one of those newbies that insisted on an H&A until I saw enough diamonds to determine I couldn't see the difference between an H&A and a near H&A. And lo and behold, I'm now seeing other members that can't see the difference either.
i have always admited that i can't see the difference b/t near H&A and true H&A stones,but ever since i became a member here i've only purchased H&A stones.
 

yssie

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Laila619|1309011433|2954757 said:
I see it a lot on Rocky Talk. Poster A wants to buy: (fill in the blank) something not from a PS vendor/different/a little outside the box, etc. Poster A explains what he is looking to buy. Poster A is then told that he really should get 'X' instead ('X' being the usual types of rings you see on PS). He's told that 'X' will be much nicer, and is steered towards WF, BGD, Leon, etc. I think PSers should encourage people to get what they originally wanted, and not what PS likes.

I do think over time all message boards are prone to group think; it's pretty much inevitable.


I agree.. I can't say I much like steering posters toward the regular PS vendors either. PS vendors are for the most part fantastic, but there are other fantastic vendors out there! The other one that gets to me is the A w/ HCA 1.7 is better than B w/ HCA 2.5 - such an appraisal is essentially useless in real-world terms, yet that response will get a number of dittos without further detail, which is of no use to OP at all - though perhaps parroting is a better description than group think here?


I LOVE hangout threads like the countries you've visited one, or the old where are you from - tell me something about your country one - they really illustrate how diverse PSers are! It's amazing, when you think about it, how so many people from different cultures, backgrounds, with different experiences and histories, of different ages, in different stages of life all happened to find the same web forum, and find things to keep them there..!
 

kelpie

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I definately notice it and it happens to a far larger extent offline from lurker traffic. I posted how pleased I was with Single Stone's recut of my OEC, they told me their phone was ringing off the hook with requests for recuts after that thread. I posted my ring with double claws from a jeweler I was the first on the board to use, they told me they are getting so many calls wanting quotes on a setting "just like that". Sometimes somebody finds perfection and you know a good thing. The funny thing I've noticed is that the people who "discover" and popularize the next big thing (albeit trend, stone, or jeweler) are usually moving on to the next thing by the time it gets started. I noticed this with Coati's beautiful James Meyer reset. Oddly enough the overwealhming requests seem to have caused him to drastically cut the work he's willing to take on.
 

AmeliaG

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Mayk|1309028140|2954891 said:
I watched that thread and commented too. ... That poster was contentious from the get go and I thought very insulting to the people that post here.
I didn't see that thread until the end. Most people that first replied ignored the OPs question and he wasn't that rude with his first reply - he just noted that he came for...and then repeated his original question. Only later did he become rude but that was after some pretty aggressive replies. It depends on what you think is rude - I get highly annoyed when my question gets ignored and instead I get an opinion on something unrelated that i didn't ask for. I wouldn't be adverse to hearing other opinions but only after I get my question answered.

I was more alarmed by some strong opinions advising against an appraisal as a way of determining the value of a diamond. Denverappraiser, who I greatly admire for his honesty and tact, himself was alarned; thank God, he posted an impassioned but well reasoned concern. I think its only his passion in his followup post that made others finally regard what he was saying even though even in his original post, he was giving very sound advice.

That is sometimes my main concern that a newbie can mistake passion and a confident demeanour for authority and knowledge.
 

Amys Bling

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I like the point Amelia just made, I hope newbies don't mistake passion for diamonds in the posters on this thread to being someone experienced and schooled in diamonds.
 

loriken214

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packrat|1309029073|2954906 said:
somethingshiny|1309020812|2954826 said:
I think that PS is often times subject to the "group think."

I say this because I am one of the very few who doesn't have a college degree, doesn't have a great job, live in a rural place where neighbors are rednecks and proud to be. Because I'm so different from the majority of PSers, I think I see it more clearly.

Obviously there is a group think regarding stats and vendors for our passion, diamonds and gemstones. But, there's more than that. Finances, credit, careers, education, marital values are just the first topic that comes to mind when I think of Group Think here.

You know I love you all, that's why I'm here. I don't think anyone is mean-spirited. It seems most PSers are liberal, but at the same time close-minded to a lot of discussions.
I'll come sit by you SS. I feel like an outsider on those topics..like the kid who gets picked last at games.
Make it a threesome! I'm basically a lurker now cause I can't seem to fit into the cliques. I really don't want to, actually, and find joy in looking at the photos mostly. I've learned so much from CS and I'm grateful.
 

manderz

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Dancing Fire|1309031305|2954926 said:
you and i are among rarities here on PS.there are only 3 PSers w/o a college degree.. ;))
You can make that 4. I'm working on it, now that I'm pushing 30 :knockout:
 

GreyCat

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May 18, 2011
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Slight threadjack Lori- just saw a spider gem on Bespoke and thought of you!
 

loriken214

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GreyCat|1309050868|2955106 said:
Slight threadjack Lori- just saw a spider gem on Bespoke and thought of you!
YAY....thank you GreyCat!!!! I just took a look and I love it!!!!

Lori
 

Haven

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I think there's a difference between groupthink and like-mindedness.

Regarding issues of diamond cut, I don't think most PSers believe cut is king just because they want to avoid conflict and reach a consensus without any critical analysis of the issue, which would be groupthink. Rather, I think most PSers believe arrive at the conclusion that cut is king after analyzing the optical effect of varying cut qualities on a diamond's performance. The fact that most of us reach the same conclusion is like-mindedness, in my opinion.

I also think it's amusing that in the RT thread in question, the OP essentially accused us of groupthink, but is now considering purchasing a good cut stone to have it recut in the hopes that it will become an ideal cut stone. Can I get a HA-HA?! Maybe it's me, but that struck me as funny.

As far as other issues are concerned, I really believe that any general consensus we reach here on the boards is due to like-mindedness, as well, and not groupthink.
 

Mayk

Ideal_Rock
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Haven|1309053919|2955138 said:
I think there's a difference between groupthink and like-mindedness.

Regarding issues of diamond cut, I don't think most PSers believe cut is king just because they want to avoid conflict and reach a consensus without any critical analysis of the issue, which would be groupthink. Rather, I think most PSers believe arrive at the conclusion that cut is king after analyzing the optical effect of varying cut qualities on a diamond's performance. The fact that most of us reach the same conclusion is like-mindedness, in my opinion.

I also think it's amusing that in the RT thread in question, the OP essentially accused us of groupthink, but is now considering purchasing a good cut stone to have it recut in the hopes that it will become an ideal cut stone. Can I get a HA-HA?! Maybe it's me, but that struck me as funny.

As far as other issues are concerned, I really believe that any general consensus we reach here on the boards is due to like-mindedness, as well, and not groupthink.
:appl: :appl: :appl: :appl:

That guy didn't like what heard that most people would not be that excited about a "good" cut. I hope his recut is fabulous after accusing the posters of drinking the punch.
 

loriken214

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I posted here before I even knew about the original thread! Duh! I very much think for myself, but depend upon those who "know their stuff" before I make a mistake in purchasing gems/jewelry....thanks to PS!

Lori
 
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