GOG vs Others Online

[NDSWMR]

I have been working with Marie at GOG and she is in the process of looking for the diamond I am looking for. She has been great this entire time and I especially like she is looking at each diamond in person when we are on the phone. This has not been the case with some other vendors I have spoken with.

Seeing as GOG also has a B&M store, my question is, is GOG charging a higher price for their service as well as overhead with the store when compared to others online? I want to make sure I am getting the best diamond for the money.

Thank you.

 

[setell]

I think GoG does charge more than say James Allen BUT I loved Jon''s service and I value that way more then what I got at James Allen. I happily pay for the slight premium to be well taken care of and to me it doesn''t matter if I didn''t get the cheapest possible price out there. As long as I got a good deal and I''m happy then that''s what matters to me. I still ended up with a way nicer diamond and cheaper price then what I could get locally so I''ll say I did well!

 

[elle_chris]

While they are a bit more expensive than James Allen, they also have a better upgrade policy. At GOG, i think you need to spend $500 more to qualify for an upgrade, at JA it''s double the amount you initially spent. Also, GOG''s H&A''s are true Hearts and Arrows stones and come with a bit more info than the James Allen ones. He''ll also do videos comparing a few stones if you request one. All that adds up to time spent. So while they may be a bit more, they''re also providing extra services.

HOWEVER (hope John is reading this), those of us that made our first purchase with GOG through a CC (you were my first online diamond purchase) because we didn''t know anything about the vendors here and wanted to protect ourselves, do not qualify for the discounted wire price for an upgrade. Wish they would change that!

 

[setell]

Speaking of wiring a big chunk of cash upfront. I was so scared at first to do it and only wanted to pay via cc since I get more protection but good thing I let my guards down and decided to just do it. So I got a good wire discount and a good upgrade if I want to use it. I gotta say, considering I’ve never wired money before I was scared it would magically “disappear” so when Marie said they received it I was soooo relieved!

 

[HVVS]

Date: 10/19/2009 3:07:21 PM
Author: elle_chris
While they are a bit more expensive than James Allen, they also have a better upgrade policy. At GOG, i think you need to spend $500 more to qualify for an upgrade, at JA it's double the amount you initially spent. Also, GOG's H&A's are true Hearts and Arrows stones and come with a bit more info than the James Allen ones. He'll also do videos comparing a few stones if you request one. All that adds up to time spent. So while they may be a bit more, they're also providing extra services.


HOWEVER (hope John is reading this), those of us that made our first purchase with GOG through a CC (you were my first online diamond purchase) because we didn't know anything about the vendors here and wanted to protect ourselves, do not qualify for the discounted wire price for an upgrade. Wish they would change that!

That doesn't really make sense to me. Does it say that in writing (the cc vs. the wt) on their web site? I don't recall seeing that as conditions of my Lifetime Guarantee. I'd like to see / read GOG's response and explanation. It's two separate transactions. GOG evidently nets a lower profit from a cc deal than a wire payment? But, they can compensate, for example: "credit card purchase to wire transfer upgrade: Must upgrade to a stone that costs at least (3% of original purchase + $500)," instead of just a straight $500 more. I paid by wire both times I bought from GOG. I'd have raised Cain if I'd been denied a wire transfer price on the upgrade because I bought the first stone on a credit card.


Are GOG's stones more expensive? Yes, quite probably. But they carry very well cut and very clean stones and they also provide loads of information to online buyers and they do it very promptly without snide comments. JA's phone reps have been very snip and rude to me more than once when I've called to ask questions that were not covered by the online documentation for the stone. It was true in 2004 and still true in 2009. As I said once before, JA made it easy for me to go elsewhere. Perhaps they think that they need to be talking to the man, not the little woman, b/c a MAN always buys the diamonds, right? > JA used to be know as "Dirt Cheap Diamonds," btw.

Now, I'm always looking at higher color grades like G & up. But if you like nice J or K diamonds, Whiteflash seems to be the place to go for those, especially upgrades. If you buy J/K, I think WF may be the better choice if you know there's an upgrade ahead b/c GOG tends to carry more I & up colors, at least during the time frame(s) that I've been watching their online listings.

 

[elle_chris]

GOG's policy right from their site:

Prices on trade-ups.

"If the diamond you are trading up was paid with a wire transfer and you are paying the balance of your new diamond with a wire transfer you will qualify for the wire discount.

If the diamond you are trading up was paid with a wire transfer and you are paying the balance of your new diamond with a credit card, the full purchase price of the new diamond must be paid.

If the diamond you are trading up was paid with a credit card and you are paying the balance of your new diamond with a wire transfer the full purchase price of the diamond must be paid.

If the diamond you are trading up was paid with a credit card and you are paying the balance of your new diamond with a credit card the full purchase price of the diamond must be paid."

It's on their site under "Policies".

eta: I didn't mind paying a little extra the first time as like I said, i was unsure and wanted to protect myself. But if I decide to trade up, and pay by wire this time around, no discount for me.

Oh, I also think they changed their 500 upgrade polcy to just greater value. That's pretty cool.

 

[HVVS]

Some kinda New Math, huh?? I guess I never read that policy, lol! I guess if you are buying something over $20k, the savings for wire transfer might be substantial. For smaller stones, it's a couple hundred.

 

[CharmyPoo]

Yes GOG is slightly higher priced for their in-store inventory and signature stones. However, they do have a price match policy for virtual inventory. So really, if you don''t want all the goodies that come with their in-store inventory and signature stones - you are really in the same spot as using other vendors through their price match policy.

 

[NDSWMR]

Thank you for all of the info.

 

[Collee]

the slightly higher price tag is a result of their EXCEPTIONAL customer service, policies, expert knowledge and in-depth analysis offerings. the fact that marie is personally examining the stones while on the phone with you IMO equate to TOP NOTCH service.

to set your mind at ease, i am 110% confident with GOG that i traded my diamond in recently and in return received a piece of paper stating the amount of my store credit (over 10k). so, rest assured, you are in GREAT hands with GOG.

 

[Collee]

Date: 10/19/2009 3:07:21 PM
Author: elle_chris
While they are a bit more expensive than James Allen, they also have a better upgrade policy. At GOG, i think you need to spend $500 more to qualify for an upgrade, at JA it''s double the amount you initially spent. Also, GOG''s H&A''s are true Hearts and Arrows stones and come with a bit more info than the James Allen ones. He''ll also do videos comparing a few stones if you request one. All that adds up to time spent. So while they may be a bit more, they''re also providing extra services.

HOWEVER (hope John is reading this), those of us that made our first purchase with GOG through a CC (you were my first online diamond purchase) because we didn''t know anything about the vendors here and wanted to protect ourselves, do not qualify for the discounted wire price for an upgrade. Wish they would change that!

GOG updated their Lifetime trade up policy on 11/29/08

..."At any time you can trade in the diamond you purchased from Good Old Gold and get exactly what you paid (less the cost of shipping) toward a diamond of equal or greater value than your past purchase..."

 

[elle_chris]

Date: 10/19/2009 8:19:15 PM
Author: Collee

GOG updated their Lifetime trade up policy on 11/29/08

...''At any time you can trade in the diamond you purchased from Good Old Gold and get exactly what you paid (less the cost of shipping) toward a diamond of equal or greater value than your past purchase...''

Right. You can now upgrade to a stone of greater or equal value (no need to spend 500 anymore). But the policy for those of us who paid by CC didn''t change.

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 10/20/2009 8:10:18 AM
Author: elle_chris

Date: 10/19/2009 8:19:15 PM
Author: Collee


GOG updated their Lifetime trade up policy on 11/29/08

...''At any time you can trade in the diamond you purchased from Good Old Gold and get exactly what you paid (less the cost of shipping) toward a diamond of equal or greater value than your past purchase...''

Right. You can now upgrade to a stone of greater or equal value (no need to spend 500 anymore). But the policy for those of us who paid by CC didn''t change.

I am not Jon and I am not trying to answer for Jon, I just want to give a possible reason for the cc policy.

When we vendors take a cc that is not in house we pay an extra fee due to the higher possibility of fraud. There are about 300 rates that the various cards charge based on many things, such as whether the card is a corporate card, a cash back card, a flight miles card, whether it was issued on the fifth Tuesday in the month, etc, etc. When you add a full percent to those fees, or more, you are now paying from 3 to 5% instead of your normal 2 - 4%. (Cash back cards are one of the highest fees by the way, we merchant HATE those things, since we are the ones paying for your cash back, not the banks. The banks pay for nothing except the ads to get you into the door so they can pass every thing else on to the merchants.)

If we take a wire transfer, the sender pays a fee, usually in the $20 - $30 range, and the vendor pays a fee to receive it. Currently I am paying $13 at one bank and $15 at another to receive wire transfers. So on a $10,000 diamond purchased with a CC I will be paying from $200 - $500 depending on which type card is being used and whether or not it was swiped in house or taken over the phone. That same $10,000 sent by wire costs me no more than $15 to receive.

So, while you paid $10,000, Jon did not receive that much and this policy allows him to not pay more for the diamond that you are trading in than he received.

Again, I reiterate that I do not know this to be the reason for Jon''s policy, but I do know the costs of taking cc''s are far higher than people using them think. Anyone who is a merchant and who knows how to read a cc billing report knows how incredibly much they are paying to the banks for their priveledge of accepting your cc''s. The banks response to this economic downturn has been to raise fees since you consumers are spending less and they want us merchants to help keep their profits up... Sigh.

Wink, who really does not like cc companies very much

 

[elle_chris]

Wink- I understand why vendors don''t give bankwire discounts for CC purchases. I have no qualms with that. My initial post was about the upgrade policy. Meaning, if i choose to now upgrade my initial stone that was paid for by CC, to another stone and I want to pay by bankwire, I''m still not getting the bankwire discount on the upgrade.
In other words, I''m always going to be stuck paying full price for any upgrade even if i''m paying by bankwire. I feel like I''m being penalized for trying to protect myself. In all honesty, I think many people are in the same boat I''m in. Their first online diamond purchase was made by CC because they weren''t 100% sure of what was going to happen.

Anyway, beating a dead horse at this point. The policy is what it is.

 

[Collee]

Date: 10/20/2009 10:21:30 AM
Author: elle_chris
Wink- I understand why vendors don't give bankwire discounts for CC purchases. I have no qualms with that. My initial post was about the upgrade policy. Meaning, if i choose to now upgrade my initial stone that was paid for by CC, to another stone and I want to pay by bankwire, I'm still not getting the bankwire discount on the upgrade.
In other words, I'm always going to be stuck paying full price for any upgrade even if i'm paying by bankwire. I feel like I'm being penalized for trying to protect myself. In all honesty, I think many people are in the same boat I'm in. Their first online diamond purchase was made by CC because they weren't 100% sure of what was going to happen.

Anyway, beating a dead horse at this point. The policy is what it is.

I am fortunate to live only a short 20 minutes from GOG and when the stone was purchased in 2004, we had the funds to pay in full and not use a CC. We will do the same with our upgrade. However, I can totally understand wanting to use a CC for an online purchase, especially if you aren't familiar with the vendor when the purchase was made.

I understand your frusration but in Jon's defense, these policies are clearly stated on his page and have been stated since its inception. When you are ready to upgrade, perhaps you can discuss this with Jon and see if he can provide a mutually agreeable alternative.

 

[setell]

Well for me I paid via bank wire because I''m a CDN and my credit card want 2.5% of the purchase price which to me is A LOT as Jon''s in the US! I used to be very scared of bank wires till I did a bit of research online to find out that it is still very traceable if anything goes wrong. Plus I got a better exchange rate through my bank then I did with my credit card company AND I saved the 2.5% exchange rate surcharge!!!!! So with that in mind it was a no brainer to pay via bank wire to save the 2.5% AND the savings Jon was giving us for paying with bank wire!

 

[elle_chris]

Collee- I''m not attacking John in any way. And yes, had I gone through everything on the site prior to making the purchase I would have known. It was only after I thought of upgrading that I saw it. My fault for not going through all the details.

I''m in Manhattan, about 2 hours away. I did visit the store AFTER I had purchased the stone but before it was shipped because I was still uncomfortable. Meeting some of the staff there put my mind at ease, but it was too late at that point to change payment methods. Besides, I still didn''t know about the policy regarding cc''s and upgrades so there was no reason to make any changes.

Either way, it''s something people should be familiar with if they''re not going through every detail on the site.

Again, I am not attacking John. GOG gave me confidence in the vendors here and as a result, I have paid by bankwire since then.

 

[Collee]

Date: 10/20/2009 10:56:25 AM
Author: elle_chris

Collee- I''m not attacking John in any way. And yes, had I gone through everything on the site prior to making the purchase I would have known. It was only after I thought of upgrading that I saw it. My fault for not going through all the details.

I''m in Manhattan, about 2 hours away. I did visit the store AFTER I had purchased the stone but before it was shipped because I was still uncomfortable. Meeting some of the staff there put my mind at ease, but it was too late at that point to change payment methods. Besides, I still didn''t know about the policy regarding cc''s and upgrades so there was no reason to make any changes.

Either way, it''s something people should be familiar with if they''re not going through every detail on the site.

Again, I am not attacking John. GOG gave me confidence in the vendors here and as a result, I have paid by bankwire since then.

Your post did not come across as an attack at all. Sorry if my reply led you to beleive that.

Again, when the time comes to upgrade, chat with Jon and perhaps he can make some accomodations.

 

[Allison D.]

Date: 10/20/2009 10:21:30 AM
Author: elle_chris
Wink- I understand why vendors don't give bankwire discounts for CC purchases. I have no qualms with that. My initial post was about the upgrade policy. Meaning, if i choose to now upgrade my initial stone that was paid for by CC, to another stone and I want to pay by bankwire, I'm still not getting the bankwire discount on the upgrade.
In other words, I'm always going to be stuck paying full price for any upgrade even if i'm paying by bankwire. I feel like I'm being penalized for trying to protect myself. In all honesty, I think many people are in the same boat I'm in. Their first online diamond purchase was made by CC because they weren't 100% sure of what was going to happen.

Anyway, beating a dead horse at this point. The policy is what it is.

Elle, I think what Wink is telling you does affect the upgrade scenario.

You buy a $10,000 diamond with c/card - it costs Jonathan (or any other merchant) the $200-$500 in fees that Wink mentioned. That makes his net sale $9500-9800. If you pay off the c/c amount when due, you've incurred no expense.

When you trade-up, you get credit for the full purchase price toward the trade ($10,000); he doesn't recoup the $200-500 bank wire fees he incurred for your initial transaction. He's already in negative money at this point. Assume the trade-up stone you select is $14,000; the 2% wire discount takes another $280 off the price. He's now out a total of $480-780 in fees and discounts if he does this, and then he has to give full credit of $10K (original purchase price) instead of $9800 (which would be the credit amount if the intial purchase was wire transfer). That's a total swing of $680-980.

If you'd paid for the initial stone via wire transfer, you'd have received the wire price of $9800 (instead of $10,000 full price). Your credit toward the new stone would be $9800 instead of $10,000 (value $200), and he wouldn't be out the $200-$500 in bank fees from the first transaction. Instead of being out $400-900 from the first transaction, he's only out the $15-30 in wire fees.

It's not my intent to speak for Jon here, but just to help folks understand the math behind such a policy.

 

[Collee]

so essentially you are paying more for the stone with a CC purchase but also receiving a higher store credit amount upon upgrade. 6 of one half dozen of another, right?

 

[elle_chris]

I get it. But Allison, if John took the wire price of the initial stone ,and applied to to an upgrade that I wanted to pay by bankwire for, instead of applying the higher amount I paid, it may still save the customer quite a bit (depending on the stone of course), and John wouldn''t be out money as the point of the higher CC price is to cover whatever % the cc company takes.

 

[Collee]

Sorry to hijack the thread NDSWMR.


Regarding GOG''s upgrade policy. Since the credit card upgrade policy doesn’t affected me, I really didn’t put much thought into to but after thinking about it, I understand EC''s point.
A higher price is paid by the customer for a credit card purchase due to the fees that the merchant must pay to the credit card companies. Totally understandable, GET IT.

Fast forward to time of upgrade. Original price paid is applied to a store credit. Customer selects a stone of equal or higher value and is ready to make the purchase. Purchase is to be made via bank wire. Why isn''t the bank wire discount offered? Penalty for paying via creidt was already enforced on the orginal purchase. Why again on the upgrade purchase?

 

[Allison D.]

Date: 10/20/2009 11:25:31 AM
Author: elle_chris
I get it. But Allison, if John took the wire price of the initial stone ,and applied to to an upgrade that I wanted to pay by bankwire for, instead of applying the higher amount I paid, it may still save the customer quite a bit (depending on the stone of course), and John wouldn''t be out money as the point of the higher CC price is to cover whatever % the cc company takes.

Elle, that''s only true if the bank charges he incurred were precisely 2% (which isn''t typically the case.) If they''re higher, then those expenses aren''t recouped even if you give wire price credit instead of full price credit.

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 10/20/2009 10:56:25 AM
Author: elle_chris



Again, I am not attacking John. GOG gave me confidence in the vendors here and as a result, I have paid by bankwire since then.

Awesome! That is the important thing!

Wink

 

[Allison D.]

Date: 10/20/2009 12:14:26 PM
Author: Collee

Sorry to hijack the thread NDSWMR.


Regarding GOG''s upgrade policy. Since the credit card upgrade policy doesn’t affected me, I really didn’t put much thought into to but after thinking about it, I understand EC''s point.

A higher price is paid by the customer for a credit card purchase due to the fees that the merchant must pay to the credit card companies. Totally understandable, GET IT.

Fast forward to time of upgrade. Original price paid is applied to a store credit. Customer selects a stone of equal or higher value and is ready to make the purchase. Purchase is to be made via bank wire. Why isn''t the bank wire discount offered? Penalty for paying via creidt was already enforced on the orginal purchase. Why again on the upgrade purchase?

That''s why.

A trade-up differs from a return. If you buy a stone via c/card and you return it, the c/card company refunds the fees charged to the merchant. The customer gets full credit for original purchase price, and neither the merchant nor the customer is out any money.

In a trade-up, there is no refund/return, so the c/card charges don''t get rebated back to the merchant. If the merchants gives credits the full original purchase price to the customer, the customer hasn''t incurred any expense from the original transaction, and the merchant has incurred 100% of the bank fees from that transaction. In this example, both parties are not fully restored.

 

[elle_chris]

Yeah but Allison, how is that fair to the consumer?

I just did the math on a few of the stones. In each and every case the difference in price for upgrades via bankwire, is still less than the difference between the cc to cc price. So even if you get full credit for the CC price, you''re still paying more. And I''m not comparing the higher cost stones either.

So if someone spent an extra 200 on their cc (4,800 vs 4600) , and wants to spend another 5k on an upgrade for a total of 10k, the difference between bankwire to bankwire, and cc to cc is over 100. Now I know that''s not a large amount but the more the stone costs, the higher the difference becomes.

 

[Collee]

Thanks for clarifying Allison. Crystal clear now.

 

[Allison D.]

Date: 10/20/2009 1:09:29 PM
Author: elle_chris
Yeah but Allison, how is that fair to the consumer?

I just did the math on a few of the stones. In each and every case the difference in price for upgrades via bankwire, is still less than the difference between the cc to cc price. So even if you get full credit for the CC price, you're still paying more. And I'm not comparing the higher cost stones either.

So if someone spent an extra 200 on their cc (4,800 vs 4600) , and wants to spend another 5k on an upgrade for a total of 10k, the difference between bankwire to bankwire, and cc to cc is over 100. Now I know that's not a large amount but the more the stone costs, the higher the difference becomes.

Elle, I'm sorry - I'm not following you here.

The only way a vendor can be whole on a trade-up from an original credit card transaction is to deduct whatever costs he incurred from the credit card company from the amount of your original purchase.

 

[elle_chris]

Allison this is long, but my last post on the topic so bear with me.

Original stone cost 4,986 cc or 4,817 bank wire
Upgrade stone cost 9,880cc or 9,546 bank wire.

First stone paid on cc at $4,986 so upgrade stone doesn’t qualify for bank wire price.

Difference between the two for the consumer:

Price difference for CC: 4,894, price difference for Bankwire: 4,729. Not much of a difference, but the higher the cost of the upgrade stone, the less the bank wire price is that people like me won’t qualify for it. So that 200 extra I spent on the CC initially, may in turn cost me over 1k on some stones in GOG’s inventory.

All I’m saying is I don’t think I should be penalized each time I want to do an upgrade because my first stone was paid by cc.

I also get what you’re saying about the different fees that banks charge vendors, but I’m also pretty sure they’re sometimes lower than the cc amount consumers pay -so I can see it making up for the times when it''s not.

Hey, this is just my opinion. I understand vendors need to make money, but consumers want to save as well. And just like vendors look out for their company, consumers need to look out for their own interests.

Initially, I mentioned it because I wanted to see what John had to say. But I think the issue may be taking a turn for the worst, so like i said earlier, i''m out

 

[Collee]

IMO, a see no "bad" turns here. I misunderstood as well but Allison clarified it quite clear for me. Hopefully she or someone else can do the same for you. If you are interested in hearing Jon''s explanation, send him an email. I am sure he would be very forthcoming in explaining.

Total side note but curious as to why you didn''t view the stone prior to purchasing. You stated you did so after the purchase was made but prior to having it shipped. Being that you live so close to GOG (as do I), I would think that seeing the stone IRL prior to purchasing would ease your concerns of doubt. Not asking if seeing the diamond prior to purchasing would have an affect on your payment method, just asking why you didn''t take advantage of GOG''s close proximity to view these beauts IRL before pulling the trigger.