Go with HCA score or GIA cut grading.

[jrich]

I know there isn't a hard fast answer to this as I have looked through other threads, but I am so overwhelmed and consumed with looking through diamonds. For the average girl who owns no diamonds, who likely won't ever have other diamonds to compare her engagement ring to, or friends with diamonds to compare hers to, and if you had to go one way or the other...
Should I go with a GIA VG cut that gets under 2.0 score on the HCA,
Or an EX cut that gets somewhere between a 2+ and 4 on the HCA?
Or is either way fine?
The EX's under 2.0 on the HCA I know are the cream of the crop, but I have to go down in size on my budget, and size is what I'm after, but at the same time I obviously want sparkle.

I'm getting a lot of good HCA scores on VG's I'm running and I am specifically looking for large face up diameter and I guess those numbers work for HCA but only fall in VG for GIA.

I'm working with Denise at BGD and they are patient and awesome, but they are helping me work through the virtual inventory and we can't get idealscopes until we bring them in, and well, I have to pay $85 for each one I ship in and then send back, and I don't have the luxury to be able to do that, until we were down to the final two possibly and right now the list is much longer than that. I know shortcuts aren't recommended here, but I need something to simplify this process because it is turning into a huge headache for me.

Please help
Jessica

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Jessica, I wouldn't do GIA very good for several reasons. If you try to get a bigger spread, you might also be getting a very shallow crown and your stone might more easily chip. Stick with the excellents. You could always buy a stone from a vendor that does upgrades, too. Or go just below 1.5. You are going to have to compromise something, but it shouldn't be cut. And no, you don't have to have hearts and arrows or anything like that. But do stick with GIA ex cut and symmetry and you can go down to very good on polish if you want. I'd keep the HCA close to 2 and under. A little over 2 can be okay sometimes.

 

[LizH]

Hi Jessica,

I agree with diamondseeker2006. It is best not to cut corners where cut is concerned and most people on this forum value excellent quality.

That being said, some of the more shallow cuts are favored by others and many have shallow diamonds that they are happy with. I would worry more about the fish-eye than a shallow diamond chipping, but that is just me. Don't get too caught up with the HCA number....even Gary Halloway has said, "Stones near the center of the red region (the lowest scores) are least affected by symmetry variations. Alternatively hearts and arrows diamonds, which have excellent optical symmetry, but often HCA scores around 2, may out-perform diamonds with lesser symmetry and lower HCA scores.

What is the likelihood that you will want to upgrade your diamond in the future? If this is a one time purchase, then you will need to do some thinking. Just because a diamond isn't under 2.0 on HCA doesn't mean it is a absolute dudd diamond...it will just have different light performance and personality. Here is an old post about this very subject. Hope this helps...

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/simple-science-is-shallow-or-deep-better.44007/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/simple-science-is-shallow-or-deep-better.44007/[/URL]

 

[slg47]

what is your budget? perhaps we can help narrow down the list?

 

[Amys Bling]

Can you link the stones you are looking at?

 

[Dreamer_D]

If BGD can call in a stone that got a VG cut because of polish or symmetry that would be fine with me.

But honestly, you can't compromise so much if you want a really crazy sparkly stone. Have you considered a halo setting or a three stone? In my experience both of those mountings, which cost about $2000, are FAR better for hand presence and bling than paying $5000 for an extra half mm in diamond spread.

 

[jrich]

Dreamer - How can we tell if it got a VG because of polish or symmetry? Only in the case that either only got a "Good", is that correct? I don't think that's the case for anything I've looked at... I think they are making the VG cut score because I was specifically looking for ones with a wide spread, which fall out of GIA EX parameters. I was considering them becasue HCA's calculator still often gives them an under 2.0 score - but I just keep being advised that if sparkle is what I want, I need to stick with EX.

I can't have BGD bring in any more than 2, so that's why I have to make the tough decisions without even being able to get all the info. It is important to me that the sparkles and light go ALL the way to the edges of the diamond, because I have found that is what makes them look big to me. Jonathan did a great video on comparing VG to EX, and I have to say the EX clearly looked bigger, brighter, and better, though i think they were the same size. I want to be okay with VG so badly, but I am not getting any reinforcement on this idea

Anyone care to comment on if this is an extreme comparison, or if this would be about the average difference you'd see? If the difference is honestly close to this, just say the word and I will drop this subject!!

http://vimeo.com/2901034

 

[06pvc]

jrich: I just got through working with ID Jewelery. I had initially been toying with working with other vendors. In addition to what I felt where the best prices (they have a policy where they will give you best price on any virtual stone you find), they where very very easily able to call in any stones I wanted to see. This would completely lift your 2 stone limit and the eliminate the need to make hard decisions.

 

[jrich]

pvc: Thank you- I have heard nothing but great things about them. Are you saying they would bring in any diamond you wanted them to, and if you chose to ship for whatever reason, you weren't resposible for shipping? Wish BGD would do that!!

 

[Christina...]

yes, the video is a very good comparison of the difference you will see. The other thing that you should consider is that a smaller excellent cut stone is going to look larger than a larger poorly cut stone because of the light performance. A shallow diamond is going to have a lot of light leakage, making the stone appear smaller to the eye. If I had to choose between a 1.2 excellent and a 1.5 vg, I would choose the 1.2 every time. The 1.5 is just going to go dark in almost all lighting environments, therefore your eye will always be drawn to the smaller better cut diamond.

 

[06pvc]

Are you saying they would bring in any diamond you wanted them to, and if you chose to ship for whatever reason, you weren't resposible for shipping?

Yes. I would pour through the price scope database. Find diamonds at places that don't have pictures, ASET, IS etc. then they could call in the diamond for free, analyze the diamond for you etc. My experience was that most of the virutal diamonds where in the NYC area. So they don't have to pay for shipping but can simply send a guy to pick up the diamond.

I wound up going with a spready AGS VG Cut (partially beacuse of VG polish) with a 1.2 HCA score that was from Blue Nile originally (stats below). I just feel like with ID Jewelries set up, you get virtual prices with all the services you need. I should note that i also have the advantage of living in the NYC area so could go see the diamonds in person. I have however read of other customer experiences who where not in the area and had a similar experience.

Stone Stats
ASET: http://oi40.tinypic.com/30s8u1j.jpg
IS: http://oi41.tinypic.com/214xv06.jpg
Setting/Diamond: http://oi39.tinypic.com/24v7bjl.jpg

Yekutiel says its heart & arrows close (not to relevant to me but it does look nice).
Arrows: http://oi39.tinypic.com/34snqrp.jpg
Hearts: http://oi41.tinypic.com/e6c6bs.jpg

Stats:
Color: J
Carat: 1.86
Cut: VG
Clarity: SI2
HCA: 1.2
Symmetry: Ex
Polish: VG
Fluorescence: MB (Big plus for me).
Dimensions: 7.99 x 8.02 x 4.80 mm (Also big plus for me)
Depth: 60
Table 58
Crown: 34 Degrees
Pavalian: 40.9 Degrees

 

[jrich]

Every time I finally decide I'll stick to GIA EX, someone comes in with a VG success story. This is so hard!!!

 

[06pvc]

I think you should look mostly at ex/ex but if you see a VG with a good HCA score and there is no cost to call in the stone (as with ID Jewlery) then you might as well take a look.

This could also allow you to take a look at GIA Ex that score poorly on the HCA.

 

[Laila619]

If BGD can call in a stone that got a VG cut because of polish or symmetry that would be fine with me.

But honestly, you can't compromise so much if you want a really crazy sparkly stone. Have you considered a halo setting or a three stone? In my experience both of those mountings, which cost about $2000, are FAR better for hand presence and bling than paying $5000 for an extra half mm in diamond spread.

Ditto! If it's size you're after, you will get a more 'big bling' look with a three stone or halo.

 

[Laila619]

VG cut isn't always a problem, BUT we really need to see the numbers to see what makes it VG instead of EX. Can you post some numbers for us?

 

[jrich]

Thank you everyone! What would I do without all this help? I definitely agree I could get a bigger look with a halo, but after I tried on the tiffany knife edge, I was done for and know it is the only setting for me

I am waiting on a couple of BGD to hopefully locate a stone for me, so as soon as that happens I'll be sure to post specs for opinion!!!

 

[Dreamer_D]

Look for diamonds that have a VG cut grade and have VG or lower on polish and/or symmetry and score under 2 on the HCA, suggests the VG came from polish/symmetry not cut.

If you want a budget stone I also suggest you work with IDJ. They seem to pull things out for unbelievable prices. I love BGD but they specialize in super ideal cuts. If you want to stretch the dollar, there are better ways to do it.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

A GIA diamond with very good on polish and symmetry can still get Excellent for cut. With AGS, an excellent on polish will lower the overall cut grade from ideal to excellent.

So I wouldn't go below GIA Excellent on CUT, but it is okay for it to have very good for polish and symmetry.

Tell me your budget again, Jessica?

 

[jrich]

Thanks everyone. Dreamer- I'm working with BGD's virtual inventory and though I'll have to pay if they bring one and it matches up to what the vendor told them and I still reject it, I just feel the most comfortable working with them. I do not mean to sound dramatic, but I had nightmares last night about what happened to Allie with her ring that she just got. And I know it is so awesome what they are doing to fix it, but I won't see my ring until my bf is down on one knee, so I have to go with who I trust most. I truly believe that is BGD, and I hope I won't be wrong. I am looking at SI1 and 2's - but I plan to let them know MY definition of eye clean and have Brian inspect it while he is on the phone with me. If I do all this I've got to believe I'm not going to get any surprises.
DS- I am scared to post my budget just yet- I am scared of lurkers- I have nightmares about that too.

I will say that working through a virtual inventory, regardless of who you're working with- you are the one doing a ton of the work, and it is hard and stressful. I hope it will be worth it in the end. I also wish I could be happy with a Signature Cut 1 carat diamond which likely could have allowed me to start and finish picking my ering in a matter of days, without any doubt of what I'd be getting. My bf is so sick of hearing me talk about "they are going to try to find this report" this, and "that one ended up not being available" that, etc. that sometimes I wonder if I took the wrong route.

Sorry to ramble - but I DEFINITELY dont have anyone IRL who would understand.

Jessica