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Go New Zealand! Animals are sentient beings.

CJ2008

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http://www.higherperspectives.com/new-zealand-1646407872.html?c=ss

New Zealand has set an incredible precedent by legally ruling on what nature lovers already know to be true: that animals are sentient and have feelings in the same way that we do.

This marks an incredibly shift in public perception, where previously only some animals were given the benefit of protection.

The Animal Welfare Bill that passed last month will prosecute people in animal cruelty cases and ban animal research and testing. All hunting and capture of wild animals will be illegal.

"To say that animals are sentient is to state explicitly that they can experience both positive and negative emotions, including pain and distress," said Dr Virginia Williams, chair of the National Animal Ethics Advisory Committee. "The explicitness is what is new and marks another step along the animal welfare journey."

"Expectations on animal welfare have been rapidly changing, and practices that were once commonplace for pets and farm stock are no longer acceptable or tolerated," said Dr. Steve Merchant, president of the New Zealand Veterinary Association. "The bill brings legislation in line with our nation's changing attitude on the status of animals in society."

:appl:
 

missy

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Thanks for sharing this CJ. Wonderful news and it should be reality everywhere. :appl: :appl: :appl:

Unfortunately this won't be happening in the USA anytime soon. :cry:
 

jordyonbass

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CJ2008|1457529356|4001978 said:
All hunting and capture of wild animals will be illegal.
That's interesting to me for a number of reasons. First reason is that NZ has a very large hunting community and I haven't heard much from them regarding it. I don't think they would accept a blanket-ban on hunting so there's obviously exceptions to the ruling.
Second - and this is what concerns me most - if they were to do a blanket ban on hunting wild animals then it could potentially cause complete mayhem. New Zealand has issues with the Chamois (an introduced goat/antelope species from Europe) decimating native alpine flora and feral pigs causing destruction in farming and natural flora areas as well as killing native wildlife - the same issue we have here in Australia. The big issue is that while we have predators in Australia that can help to keep feral pest numbers down, NZ does not have any predators at all so feral pests have the freedom to highly populate an area when their trophic level in the eco-system is at the top, thus determining that their numbers should be lower. It causes many problems in eco systems as well as starvation issues for animals.
 

CJ2008

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jordyonbass|1457533118|4002010 said:
CJ2008|1457529356|4001978 said:
All hunting and capture of wild animals will be illegal.
That's interesting to me for a number of reasons. First reason is that NZ has a very large hunting community and I haven't heard much from them regarding it. I don't think they would accept a blanket-ban on hunting so there's obviously exceptions to the ruling.
Second - and this is what concerns me most - if they were to do a blanket ban on hunting wild animals then it could potentially cause complete mayhem. New Zealand has issues with the Chamois (an introduced goat/antelope species from Europe) decimating native alpine flora as well as feral pigs causing destruction in farming and natural flora areas as well as killing native wildlife - the same issue we have here in Australia. The big issue is that while we have predators in Australia that can help to keep feral pest numbers down, NZ does not have any predators at all so feral pests have the freedom to highly populate an area when their trophic level in the eco-system is at the top, thus determining that their numbers should be lower. It causes many problems in eco systems as well as starvation issues for animals.
jordy after I posted it and took a quick look through the comments section other people brought up these points.

So it's very likely the article is not accurate at all and just made a broad statement (like you said, exceptions to the ruling.)

From my - far less educated on these issues than you - perspective - I just care that it's being recognized that animals are sentient beings. This is long overdue. And if it leads to more responsible and humane treatment of animals under all circumstances that's what it's about for me.
 

jordyonbass

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CJ I absolutely agree that the way animals should be treated should be in an ethical manner. While I hunt and fish, I don't treat any kind of animal with disrespect and always take care where possible (of course that's all relative to the eyes of the beholder, some people think I am an evil and sinister person simply because I hunt and fish).

Tovar Cerulli is an interesting guy, he was an Animal rights activist and a vegan for more than 10 years and became a hunter. He recently was on Joe Rogan's podcast and their 2+ hour conversation was fantastic. He shares many of the same views on animal ethics within hunting that I do.
 

sonnyjane

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jordyonbass|1457533118|4002010 said:
CJ2008|1457529356|4001978 said:
All hunting and capture of wild animals will be illegal.
That's interesting to me for a number of reasons. First reason is that NZ has a very large hunting community and I haven't heard much from them regarding it. I don't think they would accept a blanket-ban on hunting so there's obviously exceptions to the ruling.
Second - and this is what concerns me most - if they were to do a blanket ban on hunting wild animals then it could potentially cause complete mayhem. New Zealand has issues with the Chamois (an introduced goat/antelope species from Europe) decimating native alpine flora and feral pigs causing destruction in farming and natural flora areas as well as killing native wildlife - the same issue we have here in Australia. The big issue is that while we have predators in Australia that can help to keep feral pest numbers down, NZ does not have any predators at all so feral pests have the freedom to highly populate an area when their trophic level in the eco-system is at the top, thus determining that their numbers should be lower. It causes many problems in eco systems as well as starvation issues for animals.
You're right. Here's the lengthy legislation. Not sure where that article got that all hunting will be banned. It's still going to be perfectly legally. http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2015/0049/latest/DLM5174807.html

I'm glad for the legislation, but a peeve of mine is erroneous reporting.
 

telephone89

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I don't see how a ruling like this can pass and still have people eat meat.

As an animal lover and carnivore I 100% see the hypocrisy, but how can we grant sentient status and still slaughter for meat? previously the argument was that animals were lesser than humans, put here for our consumption, etc. But with a sentient status that gap is getting smaller and harder to justify.
 

jordyonbass

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telephone89|1457540734|4002076 said:
I don't see how a ruling like this can pass and still have people eat meat.

As an animal lover and carnivore I 100% see the hypocrisy, but how can we grant sentient status and still slaughter for meat? previously the argument was that animals were lesser than humans, put here for our consumption, etc. But with a sentient status that gap is getting smaller and harder to justify.
I guess the only way it can be judged is a case-by-case basis and even then it is going to be tricky as it comes down to someone's perception of what may be cruel and I will guarantee that changes from region to region.

Obviously an entire country isn't going vegetarian and they can't simply outlaw hunting for the reasons I have previously mentioned, so I would think what this legislation really means is heavier sentencing in cases of very apparent animal cruelty. Animal rights groups won't be able to use the law to get hunters blanket-charged and convicted, the district courtrooms would be absolute madness if they could.
 

Matata

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jordyonbass|1457541824|4002081 said:
I would think what this legislation really means is heavier sentencing in cases of very apparent animal cruelty.
I agree. And I think it will lead to more humane animal husbandry, at least I hope it does.

The animal rights movement in the US, lead by HSUS, Animal Legal Defense Fund, PETA among others is working toward something similar. Only the US groups' agenda calls for the complete elimination of domestic animals. They wish to see all animals free to live as they believe nature intended and view cats, dogs, all reptiles, birds, mammals that are kept as pets to being enslaved. They have been successful in a frightening way in getting breed specific legislation passed in myriad states/cities/counties and their motives are evil rather than compassionate.

I'm looking forward to seeing how the specifics of the New Zealand law play out.
 

telephone89

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@jordyonbass: Hunting and eating meat =/= Buying meat from a grocery store IMO. If everyone had to go hunt their own meat, then I could safely say a majority of people would become vegetarian :lol: . I'm sure as a hunter you'd agree that it's more humane. Commercial farming is one of the worst fates for any animal. It's horrible, and people tend to ignore that when they go to the grocery store and pick up a ready packaged steak.

@Matata: I'm also looking forward to seeing how the specifics play out. I know in Canada we are seeing increased punishments/harsher punishments for animal abuse. I'm not familiar with how NZ currently deals with animal abuse, but it would be interesting to see how it changes after this.
 

jordyonbass

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telephone89|1457545146|4002107 said:
@jordyonbass: Hunting and eating meat =/= Buying meat from a grocery store IMO. If everyone had to go hunt their own meat, then I could safely say a majority of people would become vegetarian :lol: . I'm sure as a hunter you'd agree that it's more humane. Commercial farming is one of the worst fates for any animal. It's horrible, and people tend to ignore that when they go to the grocery store and pick up a ready packaged steak.
Oh I completely agree there, people usually have no idea where their food comes from and what happens going from the farm to the supermarket. I would love to eat only wild, hunted meat but unfortunately it just isn't viable for me. The good thing about where I live is that it's not too far from the city but far enough that I can go and get meat from privately owned farms and butchers where the animal hasn't been dosed with hormones and has been treated ethically. It's not quite the same but it's as close as it gets.

Seafood on the other hand I just cannot buy for multiple reasons that will make it look like I am either spaming or hijacking this thread :lol:
 

kenny

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I'm conflicted and inconsistent.

I love animals, yet I eat them.
On one hand I feel all animals are equal.

Yet, I'll kill a fly, roach, or mosquito without a thought; yet a cuddly koala ranks higher in my mind, and babies of any species rank higher than adults. :roll:
I'd kill a rat but would feel more guilt than from swatting a fly.
I like animals with soft fur and large eyes more than those with scales, spines and beady eyes.

It's not fair.
It doesn't make sense.

Actually it does.
I, like nearly all humans, subconsciously think I'm the center of the universe.
It's all about ME.
I get to play god and pick and chose which creatures serve my purpose by feeding me or bring me warm fuzzies, and which work against my purpose by spreading illness and disease.
Why not just tell the truth about this?

It's not the mosquito's fault that the Zika or Malaria hitchhikes a ride.
To be fair and consistent I should love that mosquito as much as the cutest kitten in the world ... indeed Zika and Malaria should also have equal rights to our respect. No?
Why should we discriminate against living beings that are not sentient?

Every animal, and plant for that matter, simply wants to live.
 

jordyonbass

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Kenny,

I believe that happens because we're a social species and that we may identify some species as part of our social group e.g. dogs, cats etc. This isn't just limited to humans either as it also happens within the animal kingdom as well, even with solitary/non-social species.
Are we following natural instincts in that case? Perhaps, and I find that to be an interesting and debatable topic too.
 

Gypsy

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Well, if Trump is President I know where I am moving.

And no, I'm not just kidding. If I have the money and that man is elected immigrating is on the table.
 

chrono

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In my mind, we are all animals. We need to eat meat and plants to survive. In my mind, the important thing is to not over-harvest, not to waste, and not to extend their suffering.
 

kenny

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Chrono|1457619499|4002669 said:
In my mind, we are all animals. We need to eat meat and plants to survive. In my mind, the important thing is to not over-harvest, not to waste, and not to extend their suffering.
Well put.
 
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