GIA triple excellent, I SI2 inclusions question

[sarah95]

I am following everyone''s advice and looking for a GIA stone. I have come across one that''s 3.25 cts. I, SI2 with faint florescence. While I was trying to stay at around G-H in color, the faint florescence supposedly helps the I face up like an H and faces up white. It is also supposedly eye clean. (I haven''t seen this stone in person yet, so I''m just mentioning what I''ve been told thus far). Looking at the GIA report, there seem to be internal inclusions, feathers on the stone and a pinpoint that is external. I got really nervous looking at all the marks on the diagrams, so what I''m wondering is, is it really possible that this stone can be eyeclean? In the comments section, it says additional twining wisps are not shown and surface graining is not shown. The measurements are: 9.56x9.49x5.90, the depth is 61.9 and the table is 56. Any thoughts on this stone?

 

[Skippy123]

Hi Sarah, do you have the crown and pavilion angle (numbers) from the cert?

eta: or do you have the GIA certificate number?

 

[Jenn5504]

It is possible for an SI2 to be eyeclean, but somewhat less likely in the size of stone you''re looking at, at least that''s my understanding. (Which, by the way, WOW

the SIZE!). I own a completely eye clean 1.82ct SI2. I also recently owned a 1.59ct. SI2 that was not eyeclean. I would trust a reputable PS vendor to give me an honest answer on eye cleanliness. Both times I knew exactly what I expect when I got ahold of the stone based on WF''s information prior to purchase. As for the I color, I think it''s an AWESOME way to go, but everyone has their own sweet spots. I''m a J/K girl in order to maximize SIZE

but to me, I is PERFECT. Best of both worlds.

Can''t wait to hear more about this stone you''re looking at!

 

[ericad]

I own a 2.64ct SI2 (antique cushion) that is completely 100% eyeclean. The inclusions run under the table, but are white and I can''t see them at any distance without a loupe. I am very clarity sensitive and never thought I''d own an SI2!

That being said, many SI2''s I''ve seen are not eyeclean - it''s hit or miss. The best thing to do is have it first evaluated by a trusted third party and if he/she says it''s eyeclean make sure there is a good return policy so you can then examine it with your own eyes before making a final decision.

 

[hawk]

Would someone enlighten me how to tell from the lab report what inclusions are external vs. internal?
Another question I have is that I remember one jeweler told me some inclusions are better than other as far as it is harder to spot. Is one inclusion really better than another? feather, crystal, etc. Thanks!

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 8/25/2008 1:13:07 PM
Author: Skippy123
Hi Sarah, do you have the crown and pavilion angle (numbers) from the cert?

eta: or do you have the GIA certificate number?

Ditto Skip, if you post the rest of the info that would help Sarah, also it is possible the diamond is eyeclean although SI2 in that size may not be, but definitely worth a look. Make sure the vendor understands your expectations concerning '' eyecleanliness.''

 

[sarah95]

Here''s the info from the report:

Round Brilliant

Measurements: 9.49 - 9.56 x 5.90 mm

Carat Weight: 3.25

Color Grade: I

Clarity Grade: SI2

Cut Grade: Excellent

Proportions:

Depth: 61.9 %

Table: 56 %

Crown Angle: 35°

Crown Height: 15.5 %

Pavilion Angle: 41°

Pavilion Depth: 43.5 %

Star length: 50 %

Lower Half: 80 %

Girdle: Medium, Faceted

Culet: None

Finish:

Polish: Excellent

Symmetry: Excellent

Fluorescence: Faint




Comments: Additional twinning wisps are not shown. Surface graining is not shown.

 

[Lorelei]

Thanks Sarah,

It may be a good looking stone, but if it is with an online vendor, I would request an Idealscope image to make sure the crown and pavilion angles complement. Also again be very specific concerning your expectations concerning whether this diamond is eyeclean to your standards.

 

[jstarfireb]

Date: 8/25/2008 3:29:32 PM
Author: sarah95
Here''s the info from the report:

Round Brilliant

Measurements: 9.49 - 9.56 x 5.90 mm
Carat Weight: 3.25
Color Grade: I
Clarity Grade: SI2
Cut Grade: Excellent

Proportions:
Depth: 61.9 %
Table: 56 %
Crown Angle: 35°
Crown Height: 15.5 %
Pavilion Angle: 41°
Pavilion Depth: 43.5 %
Star length: 50 %
Lower Half: 80 %
Girdle: Medium, Faceted
Culet: None

Finish:
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent

Fluorescence: Faint

Comments: Additional twinning wisps are not shown. Surface graining is not shown.

I''ve been told that surface graining has a pretty major negative effect on diamonds. Just because of this, I''d look for another stone.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 8/25/2008 4:08:18 PM
Author: jstarfireb

Date: 8/25/2008 3:29:32 PM
Author: sarah95
Here's the info from the report:


omments: Additional twinning wisps are not shown. Surface graining is not shown.

I've been told that surface graining has a pretty major negative effect on diamonds. Just because of this, I'd look for another stone.

It should be fine Jstar, where it says surface graining not shown in the comments section, basically means it is a non issue - nothing to worry about!

I copied and pasted this for you from a post of Sir John's -

"Surface Graining is structural irregularity. You can see it with a microscope. The graining may resemble faint facet junction lines, or cause a grooved or wavy surface. They look like polishing lines, but they often cross facet junctions where polishing lines don't. It is a natural characteristic of the diamond crystal, and not a reflection of the cut quality.

Many times a grading report will list surface graining, pinpoints, additional clouds, etc. as 'not shown.' The report is just noting that these things exist for sake of thoroughness. 'Not shown' means they are non-issues."

 

[sarah95]

It got a 2.3 on the HCA. Should I pass on this one?

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 8/25/2008 4:28:37 PM
Author: sarah95
It got a 2.3 on the HCA. Should I pass on this one?

No - it could be a nice make of stone, I would ask for an Idealscope to check it out as the crown and pavilion are entering the danger zone for steep deep, but as GIA round the numbers it could still be fine - an Idealscope will let us know if it is, so ask the vendor for one.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 8/25/2008 1:01:12 PM
Author:sarah95
I am following everyone''s advice and looking for a GIA stone. I have come across one that''s 3.25 cts. I, SI2 with faint florescence. While I was trying to stay at around G-H in color, the faint florescence supposedly helps the I face up like an H and faces up white. It is also supposedly eye clean. (I haven''t seen this stone in person yet, so I''m just mentioning what I''ve been told thus far). Looking at the GIA report, there seem to be internal inclusions, feathers on the stone and a pinpoint that is external. I got really nervous looking at all the marks on the diagrams, so what I''m wondering is, is it really possible that this stone can be eyeclean? In the comments section, it says additional twining wisps are not shown and surface graining is not shown. The measurements are: 9.56x9.49x5.90, the depth is 61.9 and the table is 56. Any thoughts on this stone?

Sarah, I''m not sure who told you this, but it''s incorrect. Faint flo won''t do anything for any color diamond. It needs to be at least med., and more towards strong to very strong.

 

[jstarfireb]

Date: 8/25/2008 4:13:28 PM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 8/25/2008 4:08:18 PM

Author: jstarfireb

Date: 8/25/2008 3:29:32 PM

Author: sarah95

Here''s the info from the report:



omments: Additional twinning wisps are not shown. Surface graining is not shown.

I''ve been told that surface graining has a pretty major negative effect on diamonds. Just because of this, I''d look for another stone.

It should be fine Jstar, where it says surface graining not shown in the comments section, basically means it is a non issue - nothing to worry about!


I copied and pasted this for you from a post of Sir John''s -


''Surface Graining is structural irregularity. You can see it with a microscope. The graining may resemble faint facet junction lines, or cause a grooved or wavy surface. They look like polishing lines, but they often cross facet junctions where polishing lines don''t. It is a natural characteristic of the diamond crystal, and not a reflection of the cut quality.

Many times a grading report will list surface graining, pinpoints, additional clouds, etc. as ''not shown.'' The report is just noting that these things exist for sake of thoroughness. ''Not shown'' means they are non-issues.''

Oh, good to know! Thanks.

 

[sarah95]

Are these any better?

Round Brilliant

Measurements: 9.28 - 9.32 x 5.74 mm

Carat Weight: 3.03

Color Grade: I

Clarity Grade: SI1

Cut Grade: Excellent

Proportions:

Depth: 61.7 %

Table: 58 %

Crown Angle: 36°

Crown Height: 15.5 %

Pavilion Angle: 41.2°

Pavilion Depth: 43.5 %

Star length: 55 %

Lower Half: 80 %

Girdle: Thin to Medium, Faceted

Culet: None

Finish:

Polish: Excellent

Symmetry: Excellent

Fluorescence: Faint




Comments: Additional clouds are not shown.

Round Brilliant

Measurements: 9.37 - 9.45 x 5.81 mm

Carat Weight: 3.09

Color Grade: I

Clarity Grade: SI2

Cut Grade: Excellent

Proportions:

Depth: 61.7 %

Table: 56 %

Crown Angle: 34.5°

Crown Height: 15 %

Pavilion Angle: 41.4°

Pavilion Depth: 44 %

Star length: 55 %

Lower Half: 80 %

Girdle: Thin to Medium, Faceted

Culet: None

Finish:

Polish: Excellent

Symmetry: Excellent

Fluorescence: None




Comments: Additional clouds are not shown. Internal graining is not shown.

 

[sarah95]

Ellen, so medium florescence or higher would help an I colored stone appear whiter?

 

[Ellen]

Date: 8/25/2008 7:37:45 PM
Author: sarah95
Ellen, so medium florescence or higher would help an I colored stone appear whiter?

It could at med, but more likely with strong to very strong (blue).


As for the 2 new stones, definitely scratch the first one. It's what we call a steep/deep (deep crown AND pavilion angles). You can do a search on that for an indepth explanation, but the short story is, possible (more than likely with the first) light leakage. They don't appear/perform as well as stones with more ideal angles. The second is really iffy, because of the pavilion angle again. Without an idealscope pic, it's hard to say.


In searching, to make it easier with GIA stones, follow this cheat sheet:

With that said, here's a "Cliff's Notes" for staying near Tolkowsky/ideal angles with GIA reports (their numbers are rounded): A crown angle of 34.0, 34.5 or 35.0 is usually safe with a 40.8 pavilion angle. If pavilion angle = 40.6 lean toward a 34.5-35.0 crown. If pavilion angle = 41 lean toward a 34.0-34.5 crown.

GIA "EX" in cut is great at its heart, but it ranges a bit wider than some people prefer, particularly in deep combinations (pavilion > 41 with crown > 35).

 

[AndyMN]

Lorelei and Ellen never fail to impress me. Correct, surface graining “not shown” means it’s not even significant enough to plot. Also, faint fluorescence should be hardly visible unless you’re under strong UV. Also, blemishes (external) are plotted in green ink. Inclusions are mostly plotted in red, unless it’s a surface-reacher in which case it may be in red & green. Black ink indicates extra facets or, on a mounted stone, where the metalwork is.

As for this clarity grade, one would really need to see it to judge. Diamonds are like snowflakes. Every one is different. At this size it’s far more likely to have an eye-visible inclusion in a diamond graded SI2 than if it were, say, 0.50 ct, but nothing is absolute. You have been given good advice.

 

[sarah95]

Thank you for the cheat sheet Ellen! Gosh...I thought I was safe with GIA excellent cut, but I guess it will still require some more homework.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 8/25/2008 8:02:01 PM
Author: sarah95
Thank you for the cheat sheet Ellen! Gosh...I thought I was safe with GIA excellent cut, but I guess it will still require some more homework.

You''re welcome! And yes, GIA''s range for EX cut is a bit broad, and takes a bit more work. If budget allows, looking at AGS0 stones can ease the process a bit.

Andrew, thank you! And welcome to PS, I have in turn enjoyed your posts!

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 8/25/2008 8:11:06 PM
Author: Ellen

Date: 8/25/2008 8:02:01 PM
Author: sarah95
Thank you for the cheat sheet Ellen! Gosh...I thought I was safe with GIA excellent cut, but I guess it will still require some more homework.

You're welcome! And yes, GIA's range for EX cut is a bit broad, and takes a bit more work. If budget allows, looking at AGS0 stones can ease the process a bit.

Andrew, thank you! And welcome to PS, I have in turn enjoyed your posts!

Ditto, Andrew thank you so much for your very kind words, much appreciated!

 

[AndyMN]

Date: 8/26/2008 6:43:37 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 8/25/2008 8:11:06 PM
Author: Ellen

Date: 8/25/2008 8:02:01 PM
Author: sarah95
Thank you for the cheat sheet Ellen! Gosh...I thought I was safe with GIA excellent cut, but I guess it will still require some more homework.

You''re welcome! And yes, GIA''s range for EX cut is a bit broad, and takes a bit more work. If budget allows, looking at AGS0 stones can ease the process a bit.

Andrew, thank you! And welcome to PS, I have in turn enjoyed your posts!

Ditto, Andrew thank you so much for your very kind words, much appreciated!

I''m just a humble rookie who''s learned a lot from you two! I look forward to learning more!

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 8/26/2008 5:49:20 PM
Author: AndyMN

Date: 8/26/2008 6:43:37 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 8/25/2008 8:11:06 PM
Author: Ellen

Date: 8/25/2008 8:02:01 PM
Author: sarah95
Thank you for the cheat sheet Ellen! Gosh...I thought I was safe with GIA excellent cut, but I guess it will still require some more homework.

You''re welcome! And yes, GIA''s range for EX cut is a bit broad, and takes a bit more work. If budget allows, looking at AGS0 stones can ease the process a bit.

Andrew, thank you! And welcome to PS, I have in turn enjoyed your posts!

Ditto, Andrew thank you so much for your very kind words, much appreciated!

I''m just a humble rookie who''s learned a lot from you two! I look forward to learning more!

You are very kind!!

Thank you!!!