GIA - Polish vs Color vs HCA

[GemmaEdet]

Hi All,

I have been following the forum for a while, and would like to ask for advice for three diamonds I couldn''t decide one:
couldn''t find the angels for the last one. Three diamonds are all very similar price/size, difference is B has very good polish, but the best HCA value of all - 1.4 and largest size of 3, A has excellent for everything, has slightly over 2 HCA value like 2.4 or sth. C diamond has the best color D, but lowest HCA, don''t remember the exact, it''s over 3 or sth ( can''t find the detail, thought it''s been sold ).

I have a few questions here :
1. should polish = VERY GOOD bother me ?
2. compare A and B, shall i favor good HCA value or polish=excellent given that i buy them from internet ?
3. could people really can tell color difference between D and E color with naked eyes ?
I am very much like to have color D diamond, but all the others( very good symmetry, very good polish, and very bad HCA value) worry me a little.

I am more favor in diamond B, and would like to hear you advice.. pls pls, much appreciated !!!
Man thanks !


Diamond A:
0.91 ct (6.19 x 6.22 x 3.87 mm)
E VS1
Cut-excellent
Sym-excellent
polish-excellent
table-55%
depth-62.4%
crown-35%
pavilion-41%
girdle - Thin to slightly thick, faceted
culet - Very small
Flu - none

Diamond B:
0.94 ct (6.29 x 6.24 x 3.90 mm)
E VS1
Cut-excellent
Sym-exellent
polish-very good
table-56%
depth-62.3%
crown-34%
pavilion-41%
Girdle-Medium to slightly thick
Culet-None
Fluorescence-None

Diamond C:
0.91 ct
D VS1
Cut - Excellent
Symmetry - very good
polish - very good

 

[JulieN]

1. no
2. yes
3. technically, yes, in the correct environment, compared to each other, face down. Practically, in real life, no.

 

[Lorelei]

Hi Gemma,

The first diamond is borderline steep deep, an Idealscope image is really needed for this angle combo, can you get one? The second diamond is better.

VG polish, you won't see any difference between that and higher with the naked untrained eye.

Can you get more info for the third diamond, depth, table, crown and pavilion angles and so on please?

No difference to me between D and E with the naked eye mounted in a ring, I can't tell.

 

[GemmaEdet]

Thanks alll very much for your super quick reply here !
nop,, can''t get Idealscope image, buying it from bluenile...

I am really nervous about which diamond to choose..personally i favor the D color, but the HCA value is really bad, it''s over 3 or sth...
It''s my our 5 yr anniversary gift from hubby. We married right after uni, and had little money. I got a 0.24 diamond ring at that time. We''re going to make a stud earring from the old ring, and make the ring a wedding band. The labour costs a 200 pounds ish,.. but I am really pleased the local jeweller we find agrees to do that, have been to a lot of them, as there''s not much profit, no one would like to do that !!!

Any comments about this HCA ?

Diamond B, HCA value is
Factor Grade
Light Return Excellent
Fire Excellent
Scintillation Very Good
Spread
or diameter for weight Very Good
Total Visual Performance 1.4 - Excellent
within TIC range

 

[Lorelei]

Diamond B is the best choice so far, do you have the info for the third diamond? The HCA score implies it isn't the best combo but I would be interested to see the proportions.

And you are most welcome!

 

[GemmaEdet]

a.. notice that for Crown and Pavilion, they are all in degree rather than %., my typo here
find the info, but it''s sold

Carat weight: 0.91
Cut: Ideal
Colour: D
Clarity: VS1
Depth %: 63.1%
Table %: 58%
Crown-35
pavillion-41.5

Symmetry: Very good
Polish: Very good
Girdle: Medium to slightly thick
Culet: None
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 6.14 x 6.19 x 3.89 mm

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 4/26/2009 5:19:03 AM
Author: GemmaEdet
a.. notice that for Crown and Pavilion, they are all in degree rather than %., my typo here
find the info, but it's sold

Carat weight: 0.91
Cut: Ideal
Colour: D
Clarity: VS1
Depth %: 63.1%
Table %: 58%
Crown-35
pavillion-41.5

Symmetry: Very good
Polish: Very good
Girdle: Medium to slightly thick
Culet: None
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 6.14 x 6.19 x 3.89 mm

YUCK!

You had a lucky escape with this one Gemma, it isn't cut well at all and if it had been available I would have suggested you give it a miss! Angles are preferred to percents BTW.

 

[GemmaEdet]

Thanks !!..
realy !? .but it shows as ideal cut ?

looks like B is better choice ! Great !.
let me try to use % for HCA value for B one.

 

[GemmaEdet]

Holloway Cut Adviser
Selected: 62.3% depth, 56% table, 14.5% crown, 43.5% pavilion, 0% culet
The result is for a symmetrical diamond with a medium girdle and very good polish
HCA scores were adjusted Dec. 15, 2001 and Feb. 6, 2003.

Light Return Excellent
Fire Excellent
Scintillation Excellent
Spread
or diameter for weight Very Good
Total Visual Performance 1.2 - Excellent
within TIC range

does this look good ?

 

[GemmaEdet]

Below is for A, doesn''t look bad at all !!!

Selected: 62.4% depth, 55% table, 16% crown, 43% pavilion, 0% culet
The result is for a symmetrical diamond with a medium girdle and very good polish
HCA scores were adjusted Dec. 15, 2001 and Feb. 6, 2003.

Factor Grade
Light Return Very Good
Fire Excellent
Scintillation Very Good
Spread
or diameter for weight Very Good

Total Visual Performance 1.9 - Excellent
within TIC rang

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 4/26/2009 5:29:56 AM
Author: GemmaEdet
Thanks !!..
realy !? .but it shows as ideal cut ?

looks like B is better choice ! Great !.
let me try to use % for HCA value for B one.

Doesn''t mean a thing Gemma, this term can be used somewhat loosely at times.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 4/26/2009 5:33:11 AM
Author: GemmaEdet
Holloway Cut Adviser
Selected: 62.3% depth, 56% table, 14.5% crown, 43.5% pavilion, 0% culet
The result is for a symmetrical diamond with a medium girdle and very good polish
HCA scores were adjusted Dec. 15, 2001 and Feb. 6, 2003.

Light Return Excellent
Fire Excellent
Scintillation Excellent
Spread
or diameter for weight Very Good
Total Visual Performance 1.2 - Excellent
within TIC range

does this look good ?

This would be my pick without images. Diamond A has an angle range which really needs an Idealscope image to evaluate it, in order to check for light leakage.

 

[GemmaEdet]

Thanks a lot for your advice here ! Sounds like C is a no no.

I will go for Diamond B then !.
It''s great to hear your advice here !, it does give me great piece of mind !.

We went to local jewellery shop yesterday, so surprised to find out the diamond with same spec is close to 1k pounds more !.
Crazy !.

Another question, not very relevant to diamond.
Can they really re-melt my platinum ring, and reshape ? some jewellers say no, some not bothered. interested to know the truth.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 4/26/2009 5:44:41 AM
Author: GemmaEdet
Thanks a lot for your advice here ! Sounds like C is a no no.

I will go for Diamond B then !.
It's great to hear your advice here !, it does give me great piece of mind !.

We went to local jewellery shop yesterday, so surprised to find out the diamond with same spec is close to 1k pounds more !.
Crazy !.

Another question, not very relevant to diamond.
Can they really re-melt my platinum ring, and reshape ? some jewellers say no, some not bothered. interested to know the truth.

Thats what I am here for! Without images it is hard to say for sure yes this will be a great diamond, but this one has definite potential. And the price difference does not surprise me, you are in the UK Gemma and buying from Blue Nile?

As to your ring that I am not sure of.

 

[GemmaEdet]

yes! that''s correct !.. we''re in London, and price here it''s crazy. the same Spec E VS1, for 0.90ct it starts from 5k.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 4/26/2009 5:57:32 AM
Author: GemmaEdet
yes! that''s correct !.. we''re in London, and price here it''s crazy. the same Spec E VS1, for 0.90ct it starts from 5k.

I am not surprised Gemma!

 

[GemmaEdet]

Total Visual Performance 1.2 - Excellent

saw on the HCA website, it''s saying the value around 2 is better..
Could someone give a hand to explain what does the value range mean ?
what does the 1.2 mean ?

many thanks !

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 4/26/2009 2:21:07 PM
Author: GemmaEdet
Total Visual Performance 1.2 - Excellent

saw on the HCA website, it's saying the value around 2 is better..
Could someone give a hand to explain what does the value range mean ?
what does the 1.2 mean ?

many thanks !

Ok, the HCA is not used for selection but rejection, a lower score is not better than a higher one. The HCA is used for first round elimination only. The aim is to score below 2, all this means is that a diamond is worth further evaluation. This is done with ASET or Idealscope images usually. So a good way to look at it means diamonds which score below 2 ' pass' and over 2 ' fail', in most circumstances.

All the 1.2 means is that the diamond scores below 2 and is worth further consideration. Same with 1.3, 1.9 etc.

 

[GemmaEdet]

Thanks a lot Lorelei for this !.
Thought the exact number would mean anything
So, as long as it''s under 2, it''s good then !

Thanks again !

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 4/26/2009 2:53:03 PM
Author: GemmaEdet
Thanks a lot Lorelei for this !.
Thought the exact number would mean anything
So, as long as it's under 2, it's good then !

Thanks again !

And here is where I throw a spanner in the works!

USUALLY a diamond which scores below 2 is considered worth further evaluation if it is destined to be set in a ring. Now, diamonds which score less than 1 might have contrast and or obstruction images - these are usually shallower combinations and can in some cases be better suited for pendant or earring diamonds as obstruction isn't an issue with these due to the fact pendant and earrings aren't viewed in the same way as rings. Obstruction is darkness which can be seen when the diamond is observed at close scrutiny, this is caused by the shadow of your head or body and shallower proportioned diamonds can be prone to this. Diamonds worn on the ears or neck will therefore not have a head hovering over them and blocking the light!

So really remember the HCA is used to see if a particular diamond is worth further investigation - not for selection, used in this way it is an invaluable resource.

Read more here.

http://diamonds.pricescope.com/ideal.asp

 

[GemmaEdet]

thanks !

I read that HCA should be used for elimination.. really would like to have more images about the diamond ( like idealscope etc.). Given my budget( < £4,200 for diamond ), and the spec I am looking for, only these three diamonds fall in the selection, can only rely on HCA to make a choice now

I can''t find any other reputable online diamond shops other than Bluenile ( i am in UK, and american sites you guys mentioned here all charge a lot for the input tax )..

Any other reputable online shop( provides all these fancy tools/images) operates in UK ?, I''ve got the diamond B now, excited !

! anywhere I could order the ideal scope and look at it myself. Have been to diamond streets ( hatton garden ) here in London, but none of them uses this ideal scope tools.

Been to jewellery shop for setting, they said they could give us a free valuation, which can be used for insurance purpose, and normally it''s 1.5 times of price we spent, that''s the retail price they market, and shall be sufficient for insurance purpose, and seems that''s the way it works here. I have a bit doubt about it, and not sure how it operates, and would be more assured to find a proper appraiser. Any opnion ?

Sorry for so many questions

much appreciated !.

 

[Lorelei]

Gemma, check this seller out - Dr Indira Marchant at www.bestdiamonds.co.uk Indira posts here and she is lovely, get in touch with her and see what she can suggest. Indira also sells top cut Infinity diamonds and I would think she would have Idealscope and ASET available or the images for some of her diamonds.

Contact info.

The Royal Exchange
2 Royal Exchange
London
EC3V 3DG0208 868 5210 or 0777 038 1882.

You can order an Idealscope here Gemma. http://www.ideal-scope.com/cart_zoom_item.asp?Id=2&ShowAdd=Y

As to valuations you don't want to insure for a grossly inflated sum as you wouldn't get that amount back should anything happen to the diamond so it would be a waste of money, if you can find an independant appraiser in London when you get your ring that would be the best bet.

 

[GemmaEdet]

Thanks a lot for this !.
Looks great !, will drop her an email to see if we could drop in for a valuation on the diamond.
Another question, do they valuate the diamond, or valuate on the whole ring ?

.. Anyone else here on the forum is from UK, sounds like everyone is in US

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 4/28/2009 6:02:02 AM
Author: GemmaEdet
Thanks a lot for this !.
Looks great !, will drop her an email to see if we could drop in for a valuation on the diamond.
Another question, do they valuate the diamond, or valuate on the whole ring ?

.. Anyone else here on the forum is from UK, sounds like everyone is in US

I must have missed that, did you buy the diamond already? Indira sells diamonds so I don't know if she could value it for you, sorry if I am confused there I thought you were still looking? If that is the case Indira might know of an appraiser you can use.

 

[GemmaEdet]

We''re finally ordered the Diamond B from bluenile, and would like to have a professional opnion on the stone iteself.
I still can''t see the heart and arrow thingy myself

I''ve got the reply from Indira already ! she''s lovely !. and unluckily, the expert in her store is not coming to UK very often any more due to recession, and she doesn''t know of any independent ones she could recommand as there are few based in UK due to the size of the market. and experts here do the selling/buying too..

So, will have to go to local jeweller I guess.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 4/28/2009 6:46:30 AM
Author: GemmaEdet
We're finally ordered the Diamond B from bluenile, and would like to have a professional opnion on the stone iteself.
I still can't see the heart and arrow thingy myself

I've got the reply from Indira already ! she's lovely !. and unluckily, the expert in her store is not coming to UK very often any more due to recession, and she doesn't know of any independent ones she could recommand as there are few based in UK due to the size of the market. and experts here do the selling/buying too..

So, will have to go to local jeweller I guess.

Oh I see! To see hearts and arrrows you need a hearts and arrows viewer, an Idealscope won't show you hearts. Also BN do not sell branded h&a diamonds, so your diamond might show hearts and arrows if you have the tools but it might not meet the standards to be considered a h&a diamond, there are strict criteria that a diamond has to meet in order to be considered h&a. If you want a h&a diamond then I would suggest you look at some of Indira's Infinity h&a diamonds.

You can read up on h&a here.

http://diamonds.pricescope.com/hna.asp