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GIA HPHT Diamonds Antwerp

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longlong

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 4, 2014
Messages
8
Hi everyone,

A couple of days ago I started looking into diamonds because I am planning on proposing to my girlfriend in a couple of months. That is why I went to tiffany's and cartier to ask for prices but also found websites such as blue nile and james allen. So that is how I found out that buying a stone online is much smarter ;) However, I did want to go to Antwerp and see what prices they could offer me as well since a family friend has been a long customer at a specific store there and presumably always received really good prices. Initially, I was looking for a triple excellent stone around 1.1crt, E color and VVS1 quality. However, in Antwerp, I was able to find a triple excellent, 1.29crt, D color, Fluorescence none, IF quality stone for 12k Euro. So I thought I got a really good deal and did a downpayment because I was not planning on buying the stone on this trip and didnt bring a ring of hers to measure the size and went home. I took a picture of the GIA certificate of the stone and used it to check the stone online. Only then I found out that it said that the diamond was processed by HPHT. A similar stone on bluenile (non HPHT) goes around 22-24k. I read somewhere that a HPHT diamond should be around 40-50% of a non HPHT stone price. If I knew what HPHT meant, I wouldnt have chosen to go for this stone (the juweler also didnt mention it to me).
At this moment, I feel like I would prefer a 100% natural stone for my engagement ring. If it was any other ring, I probably wouldnt mind.

My questions for you are:
- would you consider buying the stone?
- even if I would consider buying this stone, did I get a bad deal? (Should the price be lower?).
- does anyone know if the diamond stores in Antwerp should be able to give lower prices than the online stores?

Please let me know what you think. Thank you very much in advance, cheers!
 
Many folks will advise you to stay away from the HPHT stones.

I will let people more knowledgable provide you the answers you need, on that question.


Just wanted to mention that you could have this stone (same size, colorless range, equally eye-clean), which has a stellar cut and is top-of-line, is of completely natural origins (no HPHT) for under $12k. That's 12,000 US - considerably less than the euro 'deal' you were offered:

1.2ct, F, VS2
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/11619/
 
I think not disclosing any treatment of the diamond would turn me right off that vendor, dealers in Antwerp are notorious for ripping people off. You could try contacting Wink and see what Paul (who cuts the Crafted by Infinity stones and is in Antwerp) has in stock he might be able to offer you a beautifully cut stone for a fair price;

http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=diamond-infinity-about
 
Thanks for your replies RockyRackoon and Arkieb1. From your answers, I get a confirmation for not buying the HPHT stone. What I still wonder is: everything else equal, does the HPHT stone behave exactly the same as a non HPHT stone? I'm sorry, as I said, I am quite new to all of this and want to learn as much as possible to make the most educated buy. I had a look at both your websites and especially the infinity stones look really interesting. I found a 1.1, D color, IF clarity stone for 36k$ on their website, which is above my budget. Arkieb1, do you know if Wink would be able to offer me different prices than stated on the website?
And does anyone else have suggestions for other websites to look at? At this moment, I am looking for a 1.1-1.25 crt, D-E color, IF-VVS1 stone with a maximum budget of 20K and preferably around 15K euro's. I would be grateful for any help.


Finally, somehow I think it is such a shame that the stone is HPHT because looking at the specs it feels like a pretty good stone. So somewhere I am still doubting a bit. I will post the specifics of the GIA report below. Please share your thoughts!

ROUND BRILLIANT

Measurements 6.98 - 7.00 x 4.35 mm
Carat Weight 1.29 carat
Color Grade D*
Clarity Grade Internally Flawless
Cut Grade Excellent
PROPORTIONS

Depth 62.2 %
Table 57 %
Crown Angle 35.5°
Crown Height 15.0%
Pavilion Angle 41.2°
Pavilion Depth 44.0%
Star Length 50%
Lower Half 80%
Girdle Thin to Medium, Faceted, 3.0%
Culet None

FINISH

Polish Excellent
Symmetry Excellent
FLUORESCENCE

Fluorescence None
 
Is there a specific reason you want an IF diamond? For most users this is overkill. You could get a VS2 that is perfectly eye clean and save a ton of $
 
Aside from the treatment, the stone isn't cut all that well. I think with HPHT treatment - it is very much a personal decision and what your plans are down the road. If you ever plan on reselling, the buyers will be thinking the same thing you are.

Are you willing to consider lower clarity? You will save a lot of money and no one will be able to tell.
 
I hope that Gypsy sees this and some of the other experts and point you to the best stones in your budget. Internally flawless is overkill, you can't see that a stone is flawless in fact if you purchase an eyeclean VS2 to SI1 even some SI2 stones are eyeclean there is little to no actual difference that the human eye can discern. So what I am saying here is save yourself a bunch of money and go down in clarity. The thing that gives a stone fire and sparkle which is something you can notice is the quality of the cut. Is there some reason you want a D E coloured stone? Once again when people like Wink put outstanding cut stones on a tray and ask people to pick one the average person cannot tell the difference between a E and an F or a G.

I guess what I am politely trying to say is that you might be better lowering the specs of what you are searching for rather than getting a stone that has High Pressure/High Temperature treatment. From the little I know about HPHT it is better than buying a fracture filled stone in that it will not reverse but it is still purchasing a stone that has been messed with by humans to improve what started life as a crappy/lower coloured diamond, many HPHT have a brown or a unappealing grey undertone body colour which they alter. I have not seen any HPHT stones in person but I have seen a number of fractured filled ones and laser treated stones and IMHO they are pretty yuk and I would recommend avoiding them altogether. I think they also use HPHT techniques to grow lab diamonds but GIA will not certify them.

So you are basically buying a treated diamond with an average cut mistakenly thinking that a D or an E and a IF clarity is going to make it somehow better looking that a lower coloured lower clarity stone. This is completely incorrect.

People think that they can cut corners or save money when purchasing a diamond but the old adage is true, you get what you pay for, so please consider if for any reason you want to resell one of these types of stones in the future it will be worth a fraction of what you paid for it.
 
Run, Forrest, Run! :knockout:
 
longlong|1407247148|3726420 said:
Thanks for your replies RockyRackoon and Arkieb1. From your answers, I get a confirmation for not buying the HPHT stone. What I still wonder is: everything else equal, does the HPHT stone behave exactly the same as a non HPHT stone? I'm sorry, as I said, I am quite new to all of this and want to learn as much as possible to make the most educated buy. I had a look at both your websites and especially the infinity stones look really interesting. I found a 1.1, D color, IF clarity stone for 36k$ on their website, which is above my budget. Arkieb1, do you know if Wink would be able to offer me different prices than stated on the website?
And does anyone else have suggestions for other websites to look at? At this moment, I am looking for a 1.1-1.25 crt, D-E color, IF-VVS1 stone with a maximum budget of 20K and preferably around 15K euro's. I would be grateful for any help.


Finally, somehow I think it is such a shame that the stone is HPHT because looking at the specs it feels like a pretty good stone. So somewhere I am still doubting a bit. I will post the specifics of the GIA report below. Please share your thoughts!

ROUND BRILLIANT

Measurements 6.98 - 7.00 x 4.35 mm
Carat Weight 1.29 carat
Color Grade D*
Clarity Grade Internally Flawless
Cut Grade Excellent
PROPORTIONS

Depth 62.2 %
Table 57 %
Crown Angle 35.5°
Crown Height 15.0%
Pavilion Angle 41.2°
Pavilion Depth 44.0%
Star Length 50%
Lower Half 80%
Girdle Thin to Medium, Faceted, 3.0%
Culet None

FINISH

Polish Excellent
Symmetry Excellent
FLUORESCENCE

Fluorescence None
Click to expand...

Hi Longlong,

I would pass on this diamond personally, it's what we call a steep/deep angled stone, undesirable light leakage is probably going to be the outcome, not what you want. I would also stay away from HPHT diamonds personally, I think it's best to have a natural diamond that Mother Nature has created and finished herself, but that's me.
 
arkieb1|1407248733|3726436 said:
I hope that Gypsy sees this and some of the other experts and point you to the best stones in your budget. Internally flawless is overkill, you can't see that a stone is flawless in fact if you purchase an eyeclean VS2 to SI1 even some SI2 stones are eyeclean there is little to no actual difference that the human eye can discern. So what I am saying here is save yourself a bunch of money and go down in clarity. The thing that gives a stone fire and sparkle which is something you can notice is the quality of the cut. Is there some reason you want a D E coloured stone? Once again when people like Wink put outstanding cut stones on a tray and ask people to pick one the average person cannot tell the difference between a E and an F or a G.

I guess what I am politely trying to say is that you might be better lowering the specs of what you are searching for rather than getting a stone that has High Pressure/High Temperature treatment. From the little I know about HPHT it is better than buying a fracture filled stone in that it will not reverse but it is still purchasing a stone that has been messed with by humans to improve what started life as a crappy/lower coloured diamond, many HPHT have a brown or a unappealing grey undertone body colour which they alter. I have not seen any HPHT stones in person but I have seen a number of fractured filled ones and laser treated stones and IMHO they are pretty yuk and I would recommend avoiding them altogether. I think they also use HPHT techniques to grow lab diamonds but GIA will not certify them.

So you are basically buying a treated diamond with an average cut mistakenly thinking that a D or an E and a IF clarity is going to make it somehow better looking that a lower coloured lower clarity stone. This is completely incorrect.

People think that they can cut corners or save money when purchasing a diamond but the old adage is true, you get what you pay for, so please consider if for any reason you want to resell one of these types of stones in the future it will be worth a fraction of what you paid for it.
Click to expand...
Some great advice there :)
 
Arkieb1 was spot on!

longlong|1407247148|3726420 said:
At this moment, I am looking for a 1.1-1.25 crt, D-E color, IF-VVS1 stone with a maximum budget of 20K and preferably around 15K euro's. I would be grateful for any help.


Finally, somehow I think it is such a shame that the stone is HPHT because looking at the specs it feels like a pretty good stone. So somewhere I am still doubting a bit. I will post the specifics of the GIA report below. Please share your thoughts!
Click to expand...

My thoughts are that according to your desired specs getting the "best" is very important to you. A HPHT stone is not considered the best, so choosing one would seem to be in conflict with your goals. The idea of paying money for a D-IF designation when the stone has been treated seems very much like a false economy to me. I wouldn't consider it for a second in your situation.

What I would consider is what others on here have been advising- get educated about what constitutes the "best" in a diamond. I would want an untreated natural diamond with an immaculate cut, so that it had the absolute best, top quality performance. After that I would start making compromises based on my budget. I would not compromise on cut or treatments after becoming a little bit educated about diamonds...the rest would be negotiable for me on a stone by stone basis.

I would choose the colour that I am comfortable with, bearing in mind that D,E and F are all considered "colourless", and that your eye may not actually be able to discern a difference in a well cut G either. I would choose clarity understanding that the human eye cannot see the difference between an IF and even an "eye clean" sI1, and that each stone needs to be individually analyzed based on its unique properties. I would then let budget dictate the largest size available.

Something like this would be exactly what I would be aiming for:
http://www.winkjones.com/index.php?page=view-id-diamond-infinity-new&id=1139

Good luck!
 
Thank you all for your comments. I really appreciate your help.
Hereby, you convinced my to let go of the HPHT stone and go for a natural diamond. What I gather from the responses is that the cut is really the most important here. In that sense, is it correct that it makes more sense to let go of the high color & clarity grade and pay a premium instead for a H&A stone? As Arkieb1 pointed out that the fire and sparkle are derived from the quality of the cut and that a IF stone would be overkill.
A question that I have left is if it would be possible for us to distinguish between a VVS1, E color stone and for example a VS1, F color stone that are both perfectly cut?

In response to thebigjdoe, there is no specific reason that I was looking for a IF stone. I am just looking for a really nice high quality stone with which I can propose my girlfriend to. Also, I am not planning on reselling the stone later one. That is why I want to get it right on the first try. After all, you only propose once right? :pray:

Lorelei, thank you for the links you posted. They look really promising. With regards to the specs of a stone, could you tell me what would be the optimal proportions for a stone? Because you said that the HPHT stone was steep/deep angled and would lead to a undesirable light leakage. I found the following specs for an excellent cut stone on the website of ajediam:

Proportions: Total depth % Table % Crown % Crown angle ° Pavilion % Pavilion angle °
Excellent: 58.0 - 63.5 52.0 - 63.0 12.0 - 16.5 31.5 - 36.5 42.0 - 44.5 40.0° - 41.7°

Please keep on posting comments, I am here to learn. Many thanks in advance!
 
Lorelei|1407255949|3726509 said:
depth - 60 - 62% - although my personal preference is to allow up to 62.4%
table - 54- 57%
crown angle - 34- 35 degrees
pavilion angle - 40.6- 41 degrees
girdle - avoid extremes, look for thin to slightly thick, thin to medium etc
polish and symmetry - very good and above

note - with crown and pavilion angles at the shallower ends ( CA 34- PA 40.6) and steeper ( CA 35- PA 41) check to make sure these angles complement in that particular diamond - eyeballs, Idealscope, trusted vendor input - check as appropriate!
Click to expand...

This is the consensus on what to look for. I copied from a previous thread.

As far as sweet spot, Below G-H the price seems to have a decent spike.

Personally, I would go no better than VS1, because you won't even be able to tel the difference between that and a VVS1 with the naked eye. Most VS2 will be eye clean, but certainly double check with the vendor that it is eye clean to your standards.

Don't compromise on the cut. Super Ideal H&A may not quite be necessary, but Cut is King, Hold strong for top quality cut on a natural diamond :)
 
thebigjdoe|1407259861|3726554 said:
Lorelei|1407255949|3726509 said:
depth - 60 - 62% - although my personal preference is to allow up to 62.4%
table - 54- 57%
crown angle - 34- 35 degrees
pavilion angle - 40.6- 41 degrees
girdle - avoid extremes, look for thin to slightly thick, thin to medium etc
polish and symmetry - very good and above

note - with crown and pavilion angles at the shallower ends ( CA 34- PA 40.6) and steeper ( CA 35- PA 41) check to make sure these angles complement in that particular diamond - eyeballs, Idealscope, trusted vendor input - check as appropriate!
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Thank you Joe! I would just add this part too from John Pollard.

As the above implies, configurations depend on each other. A little give here can still work with a little take there.

With that said, here''s a "Cliff''s Notes" for staying near Tolkowsky/ideal angles with GIA reports (their numbers are rounded): A crown angle of 34.0, 34.5 or 35.0 is usually safe with a 40.8 pavilion angle. If pavilion angle = 40.6 lean toward a 34.5-35.0 crown. If pavilion angle = 41 lean toward a 34.0-34.5 crown.

GIA "EX" in cut is great at its heart, but it ranges a bit wider than some people prefer, particularly in deep combinations (pavilion > 41 with crown > 35).
 
Sorry EvangelineG, I didnt read your comment yet because I was typing my reply and have to work a bit in between as well :angel: . Thank you for your reply, it's all starting to come together for me now. My aim now is to look for a 1.1-1.25crt perfect cut diamond in E-F-(G?) color with VVS-VVS2-(VS1?) clarity.

In that sense, is a H&A diamond always the best cut?
Also, how big of an impact does the fluorescence have. Is none always the best?

I will try to find a couple of stones online in the upcoming days and post them here to see what you think of it! If you have any suggestions, please let me know :)

Lastly, does anyone know if the diamond shops in Antwerp are able to give better prices than the online shops? I might consider going back to the shop and confront him with the fact that he didnt mentioned the fact that its a HPHT stone and ask him what he has in natural stones. I did make a downpayment so I would have to go back there anyways. If he does have high quality cut stones for a decent price, then that would not be a bad alternative since I live in Europe and most online diamonds shops are from the US. Ofcourse, highperformancediamonds.com would be a good option as well, but I was just wondering if any of you know if it is actually possible for the diamond shops there to give even more attractive prices than the online shops.
 
longlong|

Lorelei, thank you for the links you posted. They look really promising. With regards to the specs of a stone, could you tell me what would be the optimal proportions for a stone? Because you said that the HPHT stone was steep/deep angled and would lead to a undesirable light leakage. I found the following specs for an excellent cut stone on the website of ajediam:

Proportions: Total depth % Table % Crown % Crown angle ° Pavilion % Pavilion angle °
Excellent: 58.0 - 63.5 52.0 - 63.0 12.0 - 16.5 31.5 - 36.5 42.0 - 44.5 40.0° - 41.7°

Please keep on posting comments, I am here to learn. Many thanks in advance!
Click to expand...

You are most welcome! Jdoe posted my cheat sheet which should help but as for the proportions you posted from the other website, they are too broad for my liking and could land you again with another problematic proportion configuration, for example, team a 36.5 crown - 41.7 pavilion.... :shock: Not good! Conversely with the shallower end of the spectrum, crown 31.5 - pavilion 40 = dark shallow stone, also not good! The proportions posted earlier are far more strict but should get you within the bulls eye of better cut and performing diamonds.
 
longlong|1407259119|3726546"]
A question that I have left is if it would be possible for us to distinguish between a VVS1, E color stone and for example a VS1, F color stone that are both perfectly cut?
Click to expand...

Just to address the above, if the cut qualities are equal and the stones in question are similar size, most would not be able to discern any difference with either colour or clarity with the naked eye.

You could certainly consider VS1 clarity, if so, the Infinity Evangeline posted could be a fantastic choice. Don't be mislead though that a H&A is always going to be the best cut stone, I am not including flawlessly cut branded H&A such as Infinity in this statement. What I mean is that there are various stones purporting to be H&A precision cuts that actually aren't at all, even some branded that don't meet on occasion the strict standards of a ' true' H&A diamond that we routinely see here. The true Superideal H&A diamonds we often deal with such as Infinity, Brian Gavin, A Cut Above from Whiteflash etc are cut with the maximum visual balance in mind. These diamonds are crafted to the most exacting standards to achieve the utmost cut precision, resulting in the best light performance and crisp H&A patterning. You can have a diamond show a good level of optical precision and H&A footprint, yet not be the best performer optically ( showing the maximum beauty, fire, brilliance, scintillation and so forth), that we value diamonds for. Or you can have a diamond which is a good optical performer have poor optical symmetry, haphazard patterning or not much of a H&A pattern at all.

If you want the best of both worlds and a stone that performs flawlessly, a branded H&A cut for maximum visual balance, crisp optical symmetry and supporting images is the way to go.

Fluorescence, in some cases colourless diamonds are discounted because of it which is a bonus if you like the effect, don't expect to see much of a visual effect unless you go for at least medium blue or above. There can be a bit of a prejudice with colourless stones having fluorescence which can afford a discount, it depends on the buyer whether they like the idea and effect of it or not. I personally love fluorescence as I feel it adds interest to the stone and makes it look a little more ' plugged in' if that makes sense, but it depends on the individual. So none isn't always best at all unless that's what you prefer. I would caution with strong and very strong blue fluorescence to check carefully this isn't having a negative effect on the diamond by causing cloudiness or milkiness in the presence of UV light, this is unusual but always best to check with an expert to be on the safe side.
 
I would ALWAYS opt for an F VS1 in a larger size over an E VVS diamond. They will look virtually identical and honestly I would never pay for that price premium. But it is true that cut quality is #1.

Buy from one of the US vendors that have been recommended and who provide idealscope images and magnified images of the stones. I have bought from both Good Old Gold and WhiteFlash who specialize in superior stones. I would maybe consider HPHT treated stones for other jewelry such as earrings, but never for an engagement ring.
 
diamondseeker2006|1407262403|3726589 said:
I would ALWAYS opt for an F VS1 in a larger size over an E VVS diamond. They will look virtually identical and honestly I would never pay for that price premium. But it is true that cut quality is #1.

Buy from one of the US vendors that have been recommended and who provide idealscope images and magnified images of the stones. I have bought from both Good Old Gold and WhiteFlash who specialize in superior stones. I would maybe consider HPHT treated stones for other jewelry such as earrings, but never for an engagement ring.
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I'd agree with DS...a well cut H&A F VS1 is good enough for me ... :love: :clap:
 
Hi everyone, it has been a while since my last post. I promised to post a selection of diamonds after a good search and found out that I still had a lot of reading and education to do before I could make a well educated selection. Well, I believe that I have come to a point where I feel I am comfortable providing you guys with a challenging selection of diamonds! So if you are up for it, let me know your preference from most preferred to least preferred diamond and why :)!

James Allen
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.30-carat-f-color-vs1-clarity-sku-362867

Whiteflash
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3236290.htm?source=pricescope
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3236271.htm?source=pricescope
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3236270.htm?source=pricescope

Crafted by Infinity
http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=view-id-diamond-infinity&id=934

Finally, I have a couple of remarks. I am aware that probably all of these diamonds will be gorgeous in real life but since I only engage once, I am being extra picky and would really love your help with that!
At this moment, the Whiteflash ACA 1.272 is on top of my list and I will tell you why. In comparison to the1.292 ACA diamond, the measurements and characteristics are quite similar, so because it's a little cheaper I prefer the 1.272 diamond. Then, the 1.248 ACA is technically cleaner with clarity VVS2 but has slightly large(r) depth/table measurements and is of course smaller in diameter by approximately 0.1mm. The James Allen True Hearts is about 0.1mm larger and approximately 1500$ cheaper as well. In this case, there is not a lot of reason why I prefer the 1.272 ACA. The only thing I can come up with is that the hearts of the 1.272crt seem to be more consistent in size and shape, so maybe marketing did get to me and am I just falling for the ACA stamp ;). The JA TH is probably more value for money but please let me know what you think! And the last diamond is the 1.22crt CBI, which is approx 0.1mm smaller and 1500$ more expensive. The question here is: is the CBI worth the additional 1500$? I know that the CBI diamonds are supposed to be top notch, but would it justify such a large premium in comparison to for example the Whiteflash ACA?
I would really appreciate any input you guys could give and if you have any other suggestions then don't hesitate either. Many many thanks in advance!
 
Hello Longlong,

As your original post started in the midst of Antwerp holidays, I did not see this until now.

If this Antwerp jeweler indeed presented you a HPHT-diamond without properly disclosing the treatment, this is a criminal offense. Gathering that you have friends who have made 'great deals' with the same jeweler, there might even be a pattern.

Even if you resolved your own matter with this store in a satisfactory manner, I would like to ask you to take this further. If you wish, you can email me directly through our website, and I will forward your case to the local authorities. If cases like yours lead to blanket statements that ripoffs are tantamount in Antwerp, we owe it to ourselves to attack the problem at the outset.

Live long,
 
Wow, that is really good if you can do something about this Paul, let's hope that even if not all such dealers can be stopped, perhaps it would at least set an example.

OP, I am biased, I would go for the best cut, I would pick the CBI, if you can afford it, go for it. While all will likely be stunning stones (have not really looked at them in detail) because you are considering a CBI too, I think that the unparalelled cut really makes a difference. If you are leaning towards the ACA stones then I can take a look at those as well.
 
Hi Paul, thank you for your reply. I am not sure how to reply to your request. I do believe that people should not be tricked into buying diamonds. But at the same time, this is probably how 90% of the diamond stores in Antwerp make their money. By cunning uneducated tourists, as well as locals into buying HPHT/ badly cut or bad certification diamonds. I now know from first hand experience. That is why I am very happy that I took the time to learn more about diamonds and educate myself. What I am trying to say is that whatever I would do to report this specific jeweller, it would be a drop in the ocean and something has to be done about this from a way larger scale. I know this answer might be very unsatisfactory but at the same time, I do not have much to stand on either since in this case it basically would be word against word. I do admire your willingness to fight these diamond shops! And to be completely fair, even though your motivation is probably more than anything from a moral standpoint, the customers these diamond shops attract will most likely not be your customers.
On a whole different note, and this is probably not the best place to ask for this but would I be able to make an appointment directly with you to have a look at a CBI diamond or would I have to do this through your official CBI dealer Fortrez in Antwerp? Thank you very much in advance!
 
Ovincze, thank you for your reply as well. I do hear a lot of good stories about CBI as well and that is why I did include it in my options. It is however, very much at the top of my budget, if not already over, and I am just wondering how everyone here thinks the performance of the other diamonds in my selection would be in comparison to each other. So I would be really grateful if you could indeed have a look at the specifications of the other diamonds as well and let me know what you think! :dance: It would be greatly appreciated!
 
I actually do have some more generic questions about diamonds and their performance. I keep reading that, and I believable that its gypsy who says this a lot, for an AGS diamond the HCA does not matter. I know that its a rejection tool instead of selection tool and that an AGS0 diamond is already checked for light performance, but is a HCA of 1 not always better than 2 for example? And even more so if it is not an AGS0 stone?
Also if a diamond has measurements that are in the 'sweet-spot zone', so table 55-57/ depth 59-62%/ crown angle 34.3-34.9 /pavillion angle 40.5-40.9/ lower girdle facet 75-78%, then what does this exactly say? So this diamond should have the measurements to perform well with regards to light return but does this also automatically mean that it is a heart&arrows diamond? I know that a H&A diamond does not mean that it will perform well, but is a well performing diamond always a H&A diamond? Maybe the main question here is, if a diamond is cut with these 'sweet-spot' measurements (ofcourse provided that it's at least a GIA triple-X), will the diamond always perform well?

I hope someone could shed some light on this for me!
 
Hi OP,

It can be very confusing, no? What I can tell you first is that when it comes to selecting a diamond, a lot depends on personal preference as well, this is why we say use your eyes as well. Below 2 it does not always mean that you will prefer a 1 over a 2, it may be that you prefer a certain table size and fire or brilliance over the other. Some people prefer brilliance, a lot of white light and many of us prefer fire, both need to be strong but you may be one that would select a stone with a bit larger table, more white light return over one that has a small table and has a lot of fire. You may prefer a bit deeper diamond or a bit shallower diamond. Sometimes one may prefer a diamond that faces up smaller, that has happened to me too. I have a pair of studs in which the better cut diamond (as per the report too) scores higher on the HCA than the other (both below two). Although they are very close and both are beautiful, I still prefer the one that scores higher.

Others can probably give you more scientific explanations but light performance is not always directly correlated with how low a diamond scores on the HCA. After you check the HCA, you still want to use other selection tools like the ASET, best is also to use your eyes as I said, hence seeing some stones in person. You should always use multiple tools and then take into account your personal preferences. Out of 4 ideal cut diamonds you may prefer one not because it necessarily has better light performance than the others but for subjective reasons. I can only say loving a diamond can be visceral, it comes from deep within for reasons you cannot explain, just like you cannot always explain why you picked the person that will be your fiancee. Ordering more than one diamond with a great return policy is a great option that you can use today.

Yes, precision cut diamonds should have the distinct and correct hearts and arrows. Well performing diamonds will have that, instead of blurred up lines and facets you will see a very distinct, strong pattern in the diamond, there is a tremendous difference that can be seen with the naked eye too, not only as to how the diamond returns light but also in how distinct the patterns are.

I am sure I could share a lot more thoughts with you but am kind of in a hurry and will look at the diamonds you picked. Waiting for others to chime in and add their opinions too, this is just my initial take on what you were asking and my approach may not be how others approach picking diamonds. Being a woman I probably pick differently than many men; I first pick using my eyes and instinct (although I am educated and somewhat experienced in this subject) and then I check numbers and use tools. They most often confirm what I have already thought.
 
longlong|1407260640|3726566 said:
Sorry EvangelineG, I didnt read your comment yet because I was typing my reply and have to work a bit in between as well :angel: . Thank you for your reply, it's all starting to come together for me now. My aim now is to look for a 1.1-1.25crt perfect cut diamond in E-F-(G?) color with VVS-VVS2-(VS1?) clarity.

In that sense, is a H&A diamond always the best cut?
Also, how big of an impact does the fluorescence have. Is none always the best?

I will try to find a couple of stones online in the upcoming days and post them here to see what you think of it! If you have any suggestions, please let me know :)

Lastly, does anyone know if the diamond shops in Antwerp are able to give better prices than the online shops? I might consider going back to the shop and confront him with the fact that he didnt mentioned the fact that its a HPHT stone and ask him what he has in natural stones. I did make a downpayment so I would have to go back there anyways. If he does have high quality cut stones for a decent price, then that would not be a bad alternative since I live in Europe and most online diamonds shops are from the US. Ofcourse, highperformancediamonds.com would be a good option as well, but I was just wondering if any of you know if it is actually possible for the diamond shops there to give even more attractive prices than the online shops.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. It is possible to have Hearts and Arrows and still not have the right angles in the correct combinations to have a top of the line cut. Even an AGS 0 cut grade can be visually differentiated from another AGS 0 depending on whether it is at the bottom or at the top of the grade. That having been said, H&A diamonds are normally better cut than your average run of the mill diamond, and they tend to look better too. It is just that in themselves, H&A does not PROVE anything.

As for Fluorescence, many love it, many hate it. If you wish a D-IF you will find that fluorescence both lowers the price at acquisition, and lowers it when it is time to sell. By the way, if you want a D-IF because you want only the best for your loved one, then I applaud you. You may have to resort to having it cut to order though, as most vendors will cut such a gem for weight retention rather than for beauty, which is really sad.

I would think that on the whole, they do not. Unless of course, you are in the trade and are buying direct from one of the cutters or brokers. In that case you will NOT be dealing with the shops on the street, but rather in one of the diamond buildings in the diamond district.

As for meeting with Paul Slegers at Crafted by Infinity diamonds, I think you would absolutely treasure the experience, regardless of whether or not you ended up with a CBI diamond. I have had many of my clients visit with him there in Antwerp and know several other of the CBI vendors have also arranged for visits with Paul while their clients were in Antwerp.

As for going back to the vendor who has already served you so poorly. Why? (As a vendor, it may be inappropriate for me to say more, so I will just ask why would you want to go back to someone who has already established that he only cares about the sale, not about service to go along with it?)

Wink
 
Like Paul, I feel like reporting the merchant who sold you an HPHT diamond without having a discussion with you about the significance of that treatment is altogether warranted. This is a major value factor and should not be left to "buyer beware". This is not common practice but it does negatively impact an entire industry.

I would advise you to protect yourself by not dealing with this outfit any more. Further, you might be surprised what a difference consumers can make by standing up against unethical practices. Just recently complaints about overgrading at certain EGL labs resulted in all of those reports being excluded from the most important trading network in the world. Of course the problem had been going on for a while, but it reached a tipping point because of actions brought by individuals who felt they had been deceived.

So you can make a difference by insisting on transparent and ethical practice.
 
Obviously, I should have read more of the thread prior to responding.

I see you have already received excellent advice and I apologize for entering after it had already been offered.

Wink
 
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