GIA Excellent vs. GIA Very Good

[lumpkin]

I''m considering two diamonds, same price both GIA H SI1, both eye clean. One is a GIA Excellent:

D 61.3
T 56
Crown angle 34.5
Pavilion angle 41.0
Girdle thin to med
Polish and sym both EX
5.97 - 6.00 - 3.67
.79

It scored a 1.8 on the ACA. Ex light return, very good fire, very good scintillation, very good spread.



The GIA Very Good cut:

D 60.2
T 58
Crown angle 34.0
Pavilion angle 41.0
Girdle very thin to med
Polish and sym both Very Good
6.04 - 6.09 - 3.65
.80

It scored a 1.4 on the ACA. Ex in all but very good scintillation.

There is virtually no difference in price. I will not be able to compare them together and I''m sure they will both be beautiful, but I''m leaning toward the Very Good cut because of the better spread and better ACA score. Do you think it is less valuable though, because of the cut grade difference on the GIA report?

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 9/20/2006 7:41:49 PM
Author:lumpkin
I''m considering two diamonds, same price both GIA H SI1, both eye clean. One is a GIA Excellent:

D 61.3
T 56
Crown angle 34.5
Pavilion angle 41.0
Girdle thin to med
Polish and sym both EX
5.97 - 6.00 - 3.67
.79

It scored a 1.8 on the ACA. Ex light return, very good fire, very good scintillation, very good spread.



The GIA Very Good cut:

D 60.2
T 58
Crown angle 34.0
Pavilion angle 41.0
Girdle very thin to med
Polish and sym both Very Good
6.04 - 6.09 - 3.65
.80

It scored a 1.4 on the ACA. Ex in all but very good scintillation.

There is virtually no difference in price. I will not be able to compare them together and I''m sure they will both be beautiful, but I''m leaning toward the Very Good cut because of the better spread and better ACA score. Do you think it is less valuable though, because of the cut grade difference on the GIA report?

Honestly, I wouldn''t let the HCA score influence your decision for two reasons.

1.4 isn''t "better than" 1.8 for a score; that''s not how HCA works. Think of it more similarly to pass/fail grade in school - that''s all it is. Anything under 2 is good.

Second, the numbers above appear to be rounded numbers from the GIA reports, and rounded numbers aren''t as accurate on the HCA anyway.

Personally speaking, I''d lean more toward the first stone for a few reasons......

slightly smaller table on the first stone
second stone is very thin to medium (which may be fine if the very thin part is a small spot, but why have to qualify it when the other stone is in prime zone)
spread will be neglible when set, but shallower diamond (as #2 seems to be) coupled with a larger table may give less fire.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

the second stone is VG because of the very thin girdle

 

[shel]

I agree with the recommendation of the 1st diamond.

Technically, the HCA should be used to reject diamonds. The difference between 1.4 and 1.8 is small and nebulous enough that other factors might predominate, such as the excellent polish and symmetry of the 1st diamond.

Just a personal anecdote. I was comparing a diamond that scored a 2.3 on the HCA (VG on everything) with one that scored a 0.6 (EX on everything and VG for spread). Looking at the diamonds side-by-side, my fiancee and I both liked the 2.3 a lot better. We couldn''t tell the difference in brightness, fire, and scintillation, and there were enough bad features of the 0.6 diamond to decide against it. Things like a feather on the girdle, a multitude of clouds, a hazy appearance in bright sunlight, and yellow fluorescence (we prefer blue to yellow).

If you can see the 2 diamonds together, that should sway your decision more than the HCA.

 

[lumpkin]

Nuts! I had them send me the second one. Of course, I don''t have to keep it and I can always have them send the other one. Just when you think you''ve been on PS long enough...

But actually they sent me a copy of the 1st diamond''s GIA report and it was really blurry. I put in the numbers for the HCA and it came out a 5.4. It didn''t make sense so I put in the numbers with both the crown and pavilion percentages, then with the angles and I got the same 5.4 score. I wanted to get one of the diamonds sent out to me because this week while I''ve been searching several of my picks got sold while I was considering them (and each time the new choices got more expensive), and I got this info towards the end of the day. It wasn''t until after dinner and I had time to look over the report really carefully that I realized the crown height I thought was 16 was actually 15 and that the crown angle I thought was 34.5 was 34.0. I was disgusted to find that I had misread the numbers from the blurry copy. Now more disgusted to find I had them send out the lesser diamond.

Oh, well, I may actually love it. It is just a bit spreadier and it did get a great HCA score, and if it''s really not what it looks like on paper, I can send it back. Hopefully, if I decide in favor of the first one it won''t be sold by the time I have the opportunity to have it sent to me.

Thanks for your input!

 

[maxspinel]

Date: 9/20/2006 7:41:49 PM
Author:lumpkin
There is virtually no difference in price. I will not be able to compare them together and I''m sure they will both be beautiful, but I''m leaning toward the Very Good cut because of the better spread and better ACA score. Do you think it is less valuable though, because of the cut grade difference on the GIA report?

I thought the ACA score is just a guideline applies to a fully symmetrial diamond. If a diamond is rated less than excellent in the GIA symmetry grade, then technically, the ACA score or the actual visual performance should be downgraded accordingly.

 

[Beacon]

In this case, the fact that the stone is not GIA EX may not interfere with it''s performance. It is like Gary said, the reason is it VG is just cause of very thin girdle. Even if the stone were picture perfect on all it''s numbers, I think GIA will always rate a VTHN girdle as a VG cut just cause that girdle hits GIAs durability criteria. Others may know better, but I believe that is how GIA does it - anyone, feel free to correct me if I made a mistake.

It may not be all that bad - I had stone with extremely thin- very thin girlde, worn it all over for years, never a thing happened to it.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Dont set it in a very high 4 prong setting etc - use a little common sense and all will be OK

Vthin can never get GIA Ex
open this and scroll down
http://www.diamondcut.gia.edu/06_estimating_a_cut_grade.html

 

[lumpkin]

Thank you all.

Gary, I ran the numbers of both diamonds and they both fall right into the middle of excellent on all accounts, except the very thin girdle in the diamond that is coming.

As soon as it arrives and I am able to post pictures, I will, and then there may be more to discuss. It should arrive to day, and with any luck I'll have some good sunlight.

 

[Stone Hunter]

Sorry to hear that some of your pics got sold while you were looking.

I''m sure the diamond being sent to you will be very nice. Hope you love it. Don''t forget to show us photos!

 

[lumpkin]

It arrived! It is a lovely diamond. It is very fiery and sparkly and bright. I appologize for my photography skills. These were the three best photos I took after spending about 2 hours. My husband came up with the very creative idea to put the diamond in the screw hole of an outlet cover plate. That was the only way we could get a decent photo of it, although these are pretty grainy.

 

[lumpkin]

Let's see if I can get them a little bigger. Or maybe not, LOL. Sorry, don't know why it won't load. Maybe too big? Oh, well, you get the idea.

 

[lumpkin]

This is my favorite picture.

 

[lumpkin]

One more try. Sorry.

 

[lumpkin]

The symmetry isn't ideal but there are still some nice arrows. It was also really hard to get the camera angle just right, so it's partly my photography.

 

[Ellen]

lumpkin, I can see the first set of pics, but not the last two, just a red x!!

I was REALLY curious to see what your diamond looked like and what you thought of it. Your angles are almost identical to mine, 34.05 CA/41PA. But mine's a tad deeper with a smaller table. I was wondering how much they would behave alike, or not. I didn't say anything because I didn't want to influence you, or put a bug in your head and have you seeing something you weren't.

I described mine the same way, very bright, but also very fiery. Sounds like you may have found a keeper?!

ETA, the two before the last two!

 

[lumpkin]

Ellen, can you give me some links to your ring? I''d love to see it.

The two pictures with the red x''s are the same ones I posted where the last two showed up. I must have used a name that didn''t work -- when I changed the names they uploaded fine, and so you aren''t missing out on any other pics.

I''m sort of torn about this one. It''s an H but I can see some tint to it when I put it next to my tiny OEC diamond (I''m assuming it is colorless because I can''t find any hint of color at all in it). It won''t be noticable at all in my yellow gold ring, and I think it would be fine in a white metal as well. I also am wondering if I''m going to be bugged by the Very Good cut grade as opposed to the Excellent cut grade, and I''m not sure how much the symmetry will bother me, not to mention the skinny little girdle. I have seen some ideal symmetry diamonds I didn''t like -- they sort of looked machined or something, so what if I have them send out the other diamond and it has thick black arrows? I wouldn''t like that.

I''m on the fence, but I''m going to make an appointment with an appraiser and get a pro''s opinion. I do really like this diamond....

 

[Ellen]

Date: 9/21/2006 9:02:36 PM
Author: lumpkin
Ellen, can you give me some links to your ring? I''d love to see it.

The two pictures with the red x''s are the same ones I posted where the last two showed up. I must have used a name that didn''t work -- when I changed the names they uploaded fine, and so you aren''t missing out on any other pics.

I''m sort of torn about this one. It''s an H but I can see some tint to it when I put it next to my tiny OEC diamond (I''m assuming it is colorless because I can''t find any hint of color at all in it). It won''t be noticable at all in my yellow gold ring, and I think it would be fine in a white metal as well. I also am wondering if I''m going to be bugged by the Very Good cut grade as opposed to the Excellent cut grade, and I''m not sure how much the symmetry will bother me, not to mention the skinny little girdle. I have seen some ideal symmetry diamonds I didn''t like -- they sort of looked machined or something, so what if I have them send out the other diamond and it has thick black arrows? I wouldn''t like that.

I''m on the fence, but I''m going to make an appointment with an appraiser and get a pro''s opinion. I do really like this diamond....

OK, gotcha on the pics, thanks!

Well, color is a personal thing, if you think it''s going to bug you, might want to keep looking. As for VG cut, not sure how much difference one could tell. Try not thinking about what it is on paper, and just see it for what it is.

And if budget allows, could you send for the other one to compare? Just a thought.

Here''s the link to my ring, but honestly, this is only one side of this stone. As sparlky and bright as it is, the lighting in my house just stinks for that type of picture, I just couldn''t get away from the yellow lighting.
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/finally-my-upgrades.49892/

 

[lumpkin]

Wow, how did I miss that thread???

The only thing is, I think your specs are more like the stone I didn''t have sent to me. But that''s good, it makes me feel pretty sure I need to have that one sent out. I have to wait until Monday because my salesman is out until then, but I will see if there''s any way I can have him send it out before I send this one back in. It may be an option. Hopefully, it will still be available.

Ellen, that is a lovely, lovely diamond. The setting is perfect for it, too. I love a gorgeous solitaire!

 

[Ellen]

lumpkin, yes, except for the CA, the other one is very much like mine. That would be great if you can get the other too! I''ll keep my fingers crossed.

And thank you!

 

[lumpkin]

AHA! I just found some more info that sways me toward the diamond I have in hand. The star length on both is 55% and the lower girdle is 80% on the one I have, which seems about as good as it gets, but the lower girdle on the other one is 75%. I know GIA rounds those percentages, but still. Bigger, fatter arrows, which I don''t care for at all. If the arrows are not attractive to me, the fact that they excellently symmetrical is not necessarily better than arrows that are attractive but are mearly very good in symmetry. In other words, who cares if it''s more symmetrical if it''s less eye pleasing.

I have a local jeweler who has done several things for me in the past few years whom I trust (never given me bogus info, always honest answers, no hedging), so I took it to her and asked her for an opinion. (I know, I know, go to an independent appraiser, but she is not getting the sale anyway because this is a trade in, plus she''s going to set it for me. I asked if she wanted my old diamond in trade for something she had there and she said she would, but could not give me as good a deal as I was going to get thru my on-line vendor.) She took a look at it and thought it was fabulous. I asked her about the very thin girdle, the symmetry and polish comparison, etc. She thinks I should keep this one because it is incredibly bright and firey. She also said it''s very bright for an H, perhaps helped by faint flourescence. The very thin girdle didn''t concern her and she confirmed that the GIA inscription matches the dossier. I think I''m sold. I think I''m keeping the one I have now. Yay!

 

[Ellen]

Will be waiting for pics after it''s set!

 

[lumpkin]

Ellen, if I can only get the pictures half as good as yours! Your pictures were amazing, as are so many on PS. If you have any photog tips, I''m all ears.

 

[Ellen]

Aw, thank you for the compliment! But really, I didn't do anything special, just took a LOT.

Most important, hold still. I can't stress that enough. If you have a tripod, even better. I didn't.

Take them in every kind of lighting, even ones where it may seem too dark, you never know. I got some of my best ones in really dark environments.

Diffused sunlight probably shows a diamond off best, and it's great for capturing the arrows, if you want that.

Don't try and get too close, like right up on it. You can always enlarge it and the crop out what you want. And take them at all angles.

That's about all I can think of right now. Have fun!

ETA, don't get discouraged. You can take a ton a maybe get a few you like, but sometimes none. It happens.

Good grief, forgot the two most important things, if you didn't already know. Turn the flash off and put your camera on the macro setting.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 9/24/2006 6:35:32 PM
Author: Ellen
Aw, thank you for the compliment! But really, I didn''t do anything special, just took a LOT.

Most important, hold still. I can''t stress that enough. If you have a tripod, even better. I didn''t.

Take them in every kind of lighting, even ones where it may seem too dark, you never know. I got some of my best ones in really dark environments.

Diffused sunlight probably shows a diamond off best, and it''s great for capturing the arrows, if you want that.

Don''t try and get too close, like right up on it. You can always enlarge it and the crop out what you want. And take them at all angles.

That''s about all I can think of right now. Have fun!

ETA, don''t get discouraged. You can take a ton a maybe get a few you like, but sometimes none. It happens.

Good grief, forgot the two most important things, if you didn''t already know. Turn the flash off and put your camera on the macro setting.

good tips Ellen.
Did you notice that if you use very bright lights (like desk lamps etc) very close to the diamond they do not look good.

 

[lumpkin]

Thank you, Ellen and Gary, for the photog tips. I definitely will take pics once it is set, prob in the next 2 weeks or so.

Thanks for your help in my decision, too. I''m feeling at peace with it, finally.

 

[Ellen]

Thanks Gary!

I don't have any REAL bright lamps, although I have some fairly bright recessed lighting. What I found was, almost all my pics under any lamps/lighting looked yellow and horrible, and didn't begin to capture what the diamond looks like in real life. Not sure if that's what you mean by not looking good, but that's how mine turned out. Frustrating, as the two lamps in my bedroom have the little bulbs that look like flames, and my stone rocks under them, also in the bathroom, but it's lost in the photos...



lumpkin, you're welcome! And I'm glad you are at peace.